Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Comments (Page 2,035)

Showing posts 40,681 - 40,700 of68,160
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Frijoles

Madison, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44848
Dec 4, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- I do NOT follow others. I am an INDEPENDENT thinker.
Really?
Former---Let's see if that's true.
HughBe--- My words are TRUTH whether or not you can "see" that.
Former--Were you born into your religion or did you choose it?
HughBe -- It was a matter of choice.
Former--Do either of us sound like someone with a god?
HughBe-- Both of us sound that way. The thing is one knows it while the other YOU don't. Let me not leave you in the dark. It takes great FAITH and I would add STUPIDITY to believe the nonsense that you do. Your very experience should have taught you that beauty, order, laws are ALL MADE.
VIBRATIONS are things that you are used to but even you know so well they cannot produce the laws etc.
HughBe--- Yes it is called STUPIDITY/self.
Former--My god is stupidity? Please expand on that comment.
HughBe--- Memory tells me that you are either an atheist or agnostic. Did you see the self part? If there is no supreme being then you are like a god.
Let me break it down for you.
1. Are you superior to the atoms in your computer?
2.Are you superior to the atoms in the air?
3.Are you superior to the atoms in the earth?
4.Are you superior to the atoms in the sea?
5.Are you superior to the atoms in the sun?
6.Are you superior to the atoms in moon?
7. Then you are superior to ALL of nature and given that there is no Supreme being that makes you god.
spend the time to digest these words.
Former Res is Former Res. Why do you have to invent a God concept to describe what is already there?
MUQ

Saudi Arabia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44851
Dec 4, 2012
 
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-0 (Introduction):

If we listen to enemies of Islam, the picture they present of our prophet is like one “Ruthless man, sitting on a throne, with sword in his hands, his enemies are brought to him, one by one, he gives them only two choices, Islam or they die”.

Faced with naked sword and death in front of them, his enemies “really had no choice but to become Muslim”. Using his sword and threats, he browbeaten his enemies into submission, and those who showed even the least resistance were put to death in cold blood.

But when we refer to the factual reports of the era, the picture is totally different.

Every one knows that Prophet Mohammad was born in Makkah, though being born in a High Clan of Makkan tribe, and possessing a very likeable personality and a man known for his honesty and truth, he did not possessed any political or monetary power.

When he started his mission, he was in absolute minority of one in Makkah, he had not even a single follower. When he started his mission, he and his immediate followers had to face a lot of hardship at the hands of Makkan people.

There is not a single person of Early or late Makkan period, who did not had to face persecution and extreme torture at the hands of Makkan people.

If he was to use “sword” as a means of conversion, how could he won those early converts in Makkah period? Becoming Muslim in those days was putting your head on the block so to say.

Muslims were persecuted and physically tortured to such a degree that, many had to leave their birthplace and take refuge in the country of Abyssinia, a feature which was strange for a “Clan based society” of Arabia of those days.

Some people say, that prophet did not use force in Makkah period, but once he got some power in Medina, he started using force and torture and threat to get new converts.

People fail to realize that being Muslim in Early Medina period also was no less dangerous, Medina was a very small city and it was engulfed by Non Muslims in every direction. There was danger of outside attacks at any time, and in the battle fields, Muslim armies were always outnumbered by their enemies.

How could prophet then rely on support from that “forced Muslims”, they would ditch him at critical situations and lead to defeat of Muslims.

After saying all this, I conceded that prophet did have “Many Swords” which he used to “Slay his enemies” and “Make them his slaves for ever”!! Let us see, how many swords had he:

1. Sword of Truth (The Most Potent of All).

2. Sword of Reason and Logic.

3. Sword of Patience and Perseverance.

4. Sword of Compassion and Forgiveness.

5. Sword of Open-handedness and Charity.

6. Sword of Appreciation and Acknowledgement.

7. Sword of Equity and Justice.

8. And finally Sword of Steel, which he used very sparingly.

Selecting and using proper sword at proper time, the Prophet was so successful in “Slaying and Capturing his bitterest enemies”.

I have selected a few cases from that period to prove my point and I will present them before our “Friends” on this thread, whose only purpose is to malign the Noble Character of our prophet.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44853
Dec 4, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not only the Fed. Govt. based on my experience here.
rabbee: well most can't even grasp, that just being an american does not necessarily make you a united states born citizen. more or less, whether you classify a person where they are born or where they presently live. or that if you are born, in north or south america are you an american? as i do not even believe in these silly divisions, of spanish american, african american, chinese american, japanese american, etc... your either american or not american, either your a us citizen or not a us citizen. using racial or other prejudiced titles, tells me you are not a loyal citizen. and that your loyalty, is already divided.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44854
Dec 4, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
please explain to me the process by which someone can effectively denounce his BIOLOGY and it makes a difference to the reality.
BIOLOGY is not a membership CLUB like RELIGION.
Tell me, when a person DENOUNCES his LINEAGE, does it CHANGE it? Does it change who is father is, or granfather etc.?
rabbee: well that depends, on if you consider your biology as and ape or not. since i do not suscribe to the religious order, of talking apes or other religious talking critters.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44855
Dec 4, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Jamaica is 50 years old.
rabbee: well only the name jamaica, might be. but i am sure the name has existed, many times before.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44856
Dec 4, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Your only hope is that Hughbe doesnt have an extra one to share.
rabbee: well i don't think, that bed wetters can help it.it's just too hard, to keep them from getting pissed off.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44857
Dec 4, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
How can you say that, considering the fact that the land was to be taken from us and we had to be driven out, how come we do not look at the terms of the Covenant?
In which court of the law, the covenant would be kept secret and the party which is to be evicted will not be shown the covenant and comment on it?
Religious or non religious, let us see the terms of covenant and find out what religious or non religious duties were imposed on both parties.
If one party is clearly violating each and every term of that covenant, then their claims have to be rejected, summarily by any court. Unless the court could be one of the Kangaroo courts!!
How come a reasonable person like you, becomes so unreasonable when we discuss something so simple, so trivial and so basic.
If the people wanted to return to the land of covenant, to establish a truly religious society, the one which their covenant demanded, it would have been a totally different situation.
rabbee: ok so G-D, is taking it from you. and giving it, to someone else? what is, your problem with that? and G-D, can take even more land away from you for being sore losers.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44858
Dec 4, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes the Muslims have also got bitten by the "nationalist" bug form the western nations.
What we are seeing before us is the result of the same bug.
If European Nations can become one nation on the basis of Christianity (it is a well guarded secret though, they do not speak so in public and news media and electronic media does not comment on it much).... then why can't Muslim nations join on the basis of Islam.
rabbee: so are you saying that, your colloquial g-d all-h is not as powerfull as TheG-D of all Creation? and not even as powerful, as the colloquial g-d of the jews or christians?
truth

Perth, Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44859
Dec 4, 2012
 
sword
$word
4=d in alphabeth order
death
4=protivstine adversary

''nevolje duhovne i vremenite''
duhovne=spirit
vremenite=materialistic

find meaning adversary

http://www.google.com.au/search...
Moli!
Sveti Ante izbavi nas od protivstina!
Smiluj nam se!
Hvala Stvoritelju na stvaranju.
Sinu na otkupljenju.
Majci na rodenju.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
truth

Perth, Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44860
Dec 4, 2012
 
Its God that you can have for what $word..

Are you joking?
truth

Perth, Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44861
Dec 4, 2012
 
its stay upon me
no face no hand..i don't see
its stay as GHOST in abet of my fratric
yes
its asked me
what is strongest power on this world..
''love your God with your heart and mind''

in beginning is been nothing..
genesis 2;1

http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Gen%201.2

Why Noa have 3x son?
perfect man for God
truth

Perth, Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44863
Dec 4, 2012
 
my car is autotabanic=zavit=promise as convent=walk without shoes..
no ,petrol not eletricity no gas anymore..

Do you liked that..if not why not!?

As well you allwayes walk ''pricacem=its mean trough small passage where your car can't come.
byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
http://www.google.com.au/search...

Where are you going slave girl?
I am going see my grandmother!
O really..yes yes yes
Can I know where is your grandmother house..o you bad big wolf..Are you going eat her?
truth

Perth, Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44864
Dec 4, 2012
 
Your law is not my law..remember that.
neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrr
now
reserve yes and no that you can see why is like that..
YOUR LAW HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMANS ..CODE AND FORMULA..YOU BELIEVE IN LIPS OF WHOM?
NOOOOOOOO

DID YOU KNOW WHY I SAY NECU=NO
HOW MANY TIME PER DAY?

What a about time as well parallel as well meridian?
Germany say what?
nothing as they are allwayes losers..
Did you liked that I say openly?no
Then don't pool me tell what is in secret...what others don't need know.

Ones when you find and realize who is your enemy..you will see how real words work on your side where others want eliminated you entirely.
I don't wanted see that..no!!!
Certainly not!
former res

Broomall, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44867
Dec 5, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I found the comments interesting.
"Is this news?....Jews who are liberals..thats like dog bites man.."
Liberal, yes - but (as a whole) evidently not as liberal as these particular leaders.
former res

Broomall, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44868
Dec 5, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- I do NOT follow others. I am an INDEPENDENT thinker.
Former---Let's see if that's true.
HughBe--- My words are TRUTH whether or not you can "see" that.
What makes YOU think your words are true. Is it just a feeling you have?

Why are your feelings more valid than my feelings or the feelings of others?

Do ever think you might be arrogant?

If so, is this not a sin of some sort?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--Were you born into your religion or did you choose it?
HughBe -- It was a matter of choice.
So of all the religions in the world you CHOSE one to follow?

How did that tanspire? What was the thought process, if you don't mind sharing this?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--Do either of us sound like someone with a god?
HughBe-- Both of us sound that way. The thing is one knows it while the other YOU don't. Let me not leave you in the dark. It takes great FAITH and I would add STUPIDITY to believe the nonsense that you do. Your very experience should have taught you that beauty, order, laws are ALL MADE.
"Either of us" referred to me and the writer Voltaire if you recall his quote that i posted.

You say I reguire faith yet you are the one who posesses "belief without proof" which is the very definition of faith. How do you respond to this?

Sure, "beauty, order, laws are all made" - I agree. This is not the issue.

The open question is by what or whom.

You claim to know the answer but in fact you do not. You only have your faith, but the maker is yet unknown and likely unknowable and you cannot prove otherwise.

Also, please note that you continue to call me "stupid" while, though you believe in something I consider frivolous and unfounded, I do not address you in this fashion.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Yes it is called STUPIDITY/self.
Former--My god is stupidity? Please expand on that comment.
HughBe--- Memory tells me that you are either an atheist or agnostic. Did you see the self part? If there is no supreme being then you are like a god.
You do not have to rely on your memory to gauge my beliefs or lack therof. My words speak for my thoughts.

I do not claim to be nor know who or what god is.

Unlike you, I can accept the proposition of not having all the answeers to the universe.

I do not feel the need to "make stuff up" in an artificial and childlike attempt to answer these mysteries of the universe.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Are you superior to the atoms in your computer?
2.Are you superior to the atoms in the air?
3.Are you superior to the atoms in the earth?
4.Are you superior to the atoms in the sea?
5.Are you superior to the atoms in the sun?
6.Are you superior to the atoms in moon?
7. Then you are superior to ALL of nature and given that there is no Supreme being that makes you god.
spend the time to digest these words.
I don't tend to think of myself as either superior or inferior to objects, the universe or other people.

I try to be one with the world.

I'll leave you with this:

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Sir Winston Churchill
British politician (1874 - 1965)
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44869
Dec 5, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
I have provided answer to Mr. Frijoles.
Now coming to you, since we are the party whose land is taken away, we have EVERY right in the world to look at that "Mysterious Covenant".
I know NUTTY and CORRUPT men are the problem, and do you know what? MOST of these NUTTY and CORRUP men are from Jews and Christians and not so many from our side!!
So do not evade the issue, please bring out in public view, what is that Covenant, based on which you are claiming "permanent Title" to a certain land, which was "Never" in your control except for short burst of time.
This is not the type of Covenant which Lord Almighty makes with His Chosen people and Chosen race.
There is something black at the bottom!!
MUQ---I know NUTTY and CORRUPT men are the problem

HughBe--- Thank you MUQ for understanding the issue. Case closed.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44870
Dec 5, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
We would have left you out, if you would have not have "come back" to derive people out who were living there for close to 1200 years.
Your took all your ethnic roots with you, when you cleared that land with your bag and baggage 2000 years back.
I "know" what that "Arab Homeland next to yours" you are talking about? It is NOT your land at all!! It is the land (well a small part of ) which was captured in 1967 war.
Do you think, you can pull the wool over every one's eyes by agreeing to that "so called tiny Palestinian state" with no army, no police and no industry?.
What about lands which Israel captured in 1948, 1956 and 1967?.
If you are "sincere" in peace, you should first withdraw to 1948 borders and then talk about any peace.
"Pushing the Jews into sea" might be one solution, but I hope that things do not come to that level.
First you deal with your "little" problem of HAMAS and HIZBOLLAH and then you worry about Neo- Islamic Nationalism.
PS:
And Jews did not originate from Palestine, their roots are elsewhere and not in Palestine.
Where DID Jews come from then? India? Denial of history (even your OWN history as Muslims incorporated the bible into their holy books_ gets you nowhere.

Israelis are pragmatic. If the other side wasnt inherently hostile, then there would be no need for demilitarization.

Why should Israel withdraw to the 48 lines anyhow? They werent the ones attacked in 48, and they werent the ones who lost. Get real.

The PA has police and the area has industry so I dont know where you are getting your facts from.

"Pushing the Jews into sea" might be one solution..."
Thanks for revealing once again your cards...You do more for the cause of Zionism than any Jew could do on their own.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44871
Dec 5, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
I know NUTTY and CORRUPT men are the problem, and do you know what? MOST of these NUTTY and CORRUP men are from Jews and Christians and not so many from our side!!
Let me ask you this: How much was Arafat worth? Where did the money come from? And how much of that money trickled down to the Palestinians?

Let me ask you this: How many Jews over the years have:
1) hijacked planes
2) strapped on suicide vests and blown themselves up in public
3) stored weapons in synagogues and dispatched bombs to other synagogues?
4) Fired missiles at their holiest city?
5) Issued death fatwas?
6)rioted over criticism of the bible?

I could go on and on....
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44872
Dec 5, 2012
 
Former--What makes YOU think your words are true. Is it just a feeling you have?

HughBe--- The same way that YOU know when you speak truth.

Former--Why are your feelings more valid than my feelings or the feelings of others?

HughBe-- I don't recall speaking about feelings.

Former---Do ever think you might be arrogant?

HughBe-- NO

Former--Were you born into your religion or did you choose it?

HughBe -- It was a matter of choice.

Former--So of all the religions in the world you CHOSE one to follow?

HughBe--- yes

Former--How did that tanspire? What was the thought process, if you don't mind sharing this?

HughBe--- Pay close attention to my words. The seed was sown from childhood. I left religion in early adulthood and in about 2007 I made the DECISION to take a look at religion once more. So, I started to study the bible and I was convinced that it is indeed reliable and the word of God.

I embrace the tanach and the NT and as a result I find that I am often at odds with both Christianity and Judaism. Both groups have their man-made BS but more so Judaism and a sect of Christianity called Catholicism.

Finally, those religions that speak about reincarnation has NEVER made any sense to me for two reasons it cannot be proven and I cannot relate to the experience personally.

Former--You say I reguire faith yet you are the one who posesses "belief without proof" which is the very definition of faith. How do you respond to this?

HughBe--- I thank you for your definition of FAITH. Now PROVE your BELIEF. You cannot and that is the classical definition of FAITH. YES you have FAITH or a BELIEF without PROOF.

Former---Sure, "beauty, order, laws are all made" - I agree. This is not the issue.

The open question is by what or whom.

HughBe--- I say it took INTELLIGENCE to have MADE the laws etc. I assume that YOU believe that no intelligence was needed or required. That is ok. Recall you have agreed that they were MADE.

Former--Also, please note that you continue to call me "stupid" while, though you believe in something I consider frivolous and unfounded, I do not address you in this fashion.

HughBe--- A sign that you are growing from that state.:D

Former--I try to be one with the world.

I'll leave you with this:

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Sir Winston Churchill
British politician (1874 - 1965)

HughBe--- I accept that "Pigs treat us(YOU) as equals" and that you "try to be one with the world(PIGS)" but your words are NOT applicable to me.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#44873
Dec 5, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Liberal, yes - but (as a whole) evidently not as liberal as these particular leaders.
Truth be it, I was briefly a member of that congregation a long time ago. Their members are every bit as liberal as their leaders. And their leaders are unquestionably supportive of Israel.

Most of the comments seemed to be in support. Most of the unsupportive comments were from the usual rightwing playbook. A few unsupportive comments though were from the pragmatic camp (i.e. "its nice to do the kumbaya thing but ya gotta know that people in the middle east are mean and nasty...").

Personally, I am more in the pragmatic camp but I also realize that for a real peace inititiave to start it has to originate boldly - and that stand was definitely bold. It might encourage more voices.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Showing posts 40,681 - 40,700 of68,160
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

60 Users are viewing the Chicago Forum right now

Search the Chicago Forum:
Topic Updated Last By Comments
Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 1 min Yeah 1,072,652
Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds ... (Dec '08) 9 min Le Jimbo 45,521
Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas decl... (Jan '09) 14 min voice of peace 67,540
{keep A word drop A word} (Oct '11) 27 min boundary painter 4,488
Double Word Game (Dec '11) 28 min boundary painter 1,407
Four letter word game (Dec '11) 30 min boundary painter 1,189
Amy July 12 31 min Mister Tonka 5
BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting... (Jan '09) 1 hr Jacques from Ottawa 173,699
•••

Flood Warning for Cook County was issued at July 12 at 2:02PM CDT

•••
•••
•••

Chicago Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Chicago People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Chicago News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Chicago
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••