Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[Voluntarist]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I belive in G'ch they have RTM and they do vote on this stuff.
Have you heard about the recent controversy over leaf blowers?

No but perhaps people should act like adults and talk to neighbors instead of enacting laws.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
How could land enact laws?
If the government stuck to its purpose of protecting individual rights then we wouldn't have a problem.
See the study in that European city that removed all traffic signs.
Private property is the greatest natural right.
In s voluntary society we choose who to interact with.

rabbee: it is not the federal governments job, to protect individual rights. it is their job, to protect the rights of the many, from the selfish rights of the few. you are confusing, the responsibilities of state and federal governments. the federal governments government is limited, for interstate functions and the comon welfare of the whole nation.

[Voluntarist]

rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:

<quoted text>
rabbee: it is not the federal governments job, to protect individual rights. it is their job, to protect the rights of the many, from the selfish rights of the few. you are confusing, the responsibilities of state and federal governments. the federal governments government is limited, for interstate functions and the comon welfare of the whole nation.

Declaration of Independence states the purpose of government as well as many state constitutions.

[Cult of Reason]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
No but perhaps people should act like adults and talk to neighbors instead of enacting laws.

And what if talking to neighbors doesn't work. Haven't you ever dealt with an unreasonable person? In a voluntary society, if your neighbor decides to burn his trash daily or process toxic waste without regard the neighbors safety or quality of life, and he won't listen to reason, what recourse will you have? Will you challenge him to a duel? Start a feud like the Hatfields and McCoys? Seriously, what recourse will you have?

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Declaration of Independence states the purpose of government as well as many state constitutions.

rabbee: no! the declaration of independance, specifies the reasoning for sucession from the brittish empire.

the constitution of the united states, specifies the duties and obligations of the us federal government.

and the state and commonwealth constitutions, specifies the duties and obligations of the state or commonwealths.

[former res]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Why wouldn't a gas tax work? Maybe the government isn't the best custodian of gas tax.

How would you propose to pay for roads?

You think a for-profit organization would be more efficient?

Do you understand that Medicare loses a far lower percentage to overhead than private medical insurance and has a higher satisfaction rate?

[Voluntarist]

rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:

<quoted text>
rabbee: no! the declaration of independance, specifies the reasoning for sucession from the brittish empire.
the constitution of the united states, specifies the duties and obligations of the us federal government.
and the state and commonwealth constitutions, specifies the duties and obligations of the state or commonwealths.

That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted
among men.[The term "rights" had been defined earlier
this way -- "they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and
the pursuit of Happiness."]
In this way the Declaration of Independence makes is crystal
clear that government has one overarching purpose; that of
protecting the inherent human rights of life, liberty and
property (pursuit of happiness)..

[Voluntarist]

rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:

<quoted text>
rabbee: no! the declaration of independance, specifies the reasoning for sucession from the brittish empire.
the constitution of the united states, specifies the duties and obligations of the us federal government.
and the state and commonwealth constitutions, specifies the duties and obligations of the state or commonwealths.

You are correct about the Constitutions declaring the duties but the purpose of government is stated in the declaration of independence.

[Voluntarist]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
How would you propose to pay for roads?
You think a for-profit organization would be more efficient?
Do you understand that Medicare loses a far lower percentage to overhead than private medical insurance and has a higher satisfaction rate?

Without government there is no for profit organization, there is no Medicare there is just men and women interacting.

How were roads paid for before?

How is garbage collection paid for where the city Mafia doesn't provide?

[Voluntarist]

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
And what if talking to neighbors doesn't work. Haven't you ever dealt with an unreasonable person? In a voluntary society, if your neighbor decides to burn his trash daily or process toxic waste without regard the neighbors safety or quality of life, and he won't listen to reason, what recourse will you have? Will you challenge him to a duel? Start a feud like the Hatfields and McCoys? Seriously, what recourse will you have?

There is toxic waste in well water right now and the government protection racket does NOTHING about it.
Move

[former res]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Without government there is no for profit organization...

What???

Were the robber barrons for-profit?

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
[Without gov't] there is no Medicare there is just men and women interacting.

Have we lost touch with you?

Gov't isn't some strange animal. It's just the name we give to those things we've decided to do together.(Though I fully understand you aren't part of the majority here.)

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
How were roads paid for before?

Before what? I think there was always some form of taxation, even before the income tax?

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
How is garbage collection paid for where the city Mafia doesn't provide?

In G'ch I believe trash pick-is private pay.

Here it's part of our taxes. So I guess I have less paperwork than up there.

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Without government there is no for profit organization, there is no Medicare there is just men and women interacting.
How were roads paid for before?
How is garbage collection paid for where the city Mafia doesn't provide?

Private garbage collection is a myth. Where do you think the garbage is dumped? In a government owned and government regulated landfill. The collection issue is a red herring.

Landfills are the most efficient solution. If it was left up to individuals, they would pollute. Once again the private market fails.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted
among men.[The term "rights" had been defined earlier
this way -- "they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and
the pursuit of Happiness."]
In this way the Declaration of Independence makes is crystal
clear that government has one overarching purpose; that of
protecting the inherent human rights of life, liberty and
property (pursuit of happiness)..

rabbee: what you wrote only mentions, the rites of common deciency. and by no means, specifies the assignments of the executive, judicial, or congressional brances.

as the declaration of independance, was mostly written because of taxation without representation. and the abuse that took place, because of said abuses. as a result of brittish internal revenue, constantly raising taxes without representation in brittish parlament.

it is the us-constitution, that designates the check and balance roles of each of the branches of the us-government.

essencially the declaration of independance, is a dear john letter to england.

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
A volunteer society now answer the question, how does a fictitious entity vote?

Please provide an actual example of such society.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
You are correct about the Constitutions declaring the duties but the purpose of government is stated in the declaration of independence.

rabbee: no! the are not, with the same intent. one is mearly a letter of intent, whereas the other is the full intent.

one is telling the brittish empire, we are no longer happy with, nor want you lack of concern. one is to be given to the brittish, and the other is ment for the people of this nation.

[Voluntarist]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Private garbage collection is a myth. Where do you think the garbage is dumped? In a government owned and government regulated landfill. The collection issue is a red herring.
Landfills are the most efficient solution. If it was left up to individuals, they would pollute. Once again the private market fails.

The private market could come up with much better solutions than government, the city of Stamford pays a company to take away recycling, at least they were paying about 2 years ago.
You are making assumptions based on nothing.

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
The private market could come up with much better solutions than government, the city of Stamford pays a company to take away recycling, at least they were paying about 2 years ago.
You are making assumptions based on nothing.

Recycling is another red herring - different system. I was referring to the landfills.

But since you brought it up, are you aware that recycling also involves disposal? Which involves the govt as well.

[Voluntarist]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
What???
Were the robber barrons for-profit?
<quoted text>
Have we lost touch with you?
Gov't isn't some strange animal. It's just the name we give to those things we've decided to do together.(Though I fully understand you aren't part of the majority here.)
<quoted text>
Before what? I think there was always some form of taxation, even before the income tax?
<quoted text>
In G'ch I believe trash pick-is private pay.
Here it's part of our taxes. So I guess I have less paperwork than up there.

Which robber Barron's? the bankers?

Organizations are creatures of fictitious government as well as corporations and the like.

You can decide to do anything you want together but why do you have to threaten violence to others to join you?

There was always some sort of taxation but we are talking about roads.

[Voluntarist]

rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:

<quoted text>
rabbee: no! the are not, with the same intent. one is mearly a letter of intent, whereas the other is the full intent.
one is telling the brittish empire, we are no longer happy with, nor want you lack of concern. one is to be given to the brittish, and the other is ment for the people of this nation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the
pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights,
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
powers from the consent of the governed…”

This of course is repeated in “state” constitutions such as
Arizona:“governments … are established to protect and maintain
individual rights.” Arizona constitution article II § 2 . This is why
standing and jurisdiction must always involve a plaintiff’s rights.

[Voluntarist]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Recycling is another red herring - different system. I was referring to the landfills.
But since you brought it up, are you aware that recycling also involves disposal? Which involves the govt as well.

My original post dealt with COLLECTION of the garbage, not disposal.
That is a different conversation.