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Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43273 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
Poopy head? Really? You just can't make this stuff up.
__________
Grover Norquist, founder and president of Americans For Tax Reform, has a new theory about why President Barack Obama won -- he portrayed Mitt Romney as a "poopy head."
"The president was committed; elected on the basis that he was not Romney and Romney was a poopy head and you should vote against Romney and he won by two points," Norquist said on CBS' "This Morning" Monday. "But he didn't make the case that we should have higher taxes and higher spending, he kind of sounded like the opposite."
Host Norah O'Donnell pushed back. "Well, I'm not sure that's what the president called Mitt Romney, Grover," she said. "That's not the debate that was had ... he said very clearly throughout the debate that the wealthiest Americans should pay more and he won eight of the nine battleground states and Republicans failed to reclaim the White House or the Senate."
"What about the exit polls that show a broad support for raising taxes on the wealthiest americans. Are you wrong?" she asked.
Norquist pointed to negative advertising against former GOP nominee Mitt Romney.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/grov...
I like that phrase!
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43274 Nov 12, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist#...

Norquist has described himself as a "boring white bread Methodist."[54]

In 2004, at age 48, he married a Palestinian Muslim[34] named Samah Alrayyes,[55][56] a Kuwaiti PR specialist who was formerly a director of the Islamic Free Market Institute and specialist at the Bureau of Legislative and Public Affairs at United States Agency for International Development (USAID).[57][58] The couple has two children adopted from abroad.[59] Norquist is said to live a modest lifestyle. According to friend and former roommate John Fund, Norquist's devotion to his political causes is "monk-like" and comparable to that of Ralph Nader.[12]

Norquist has competed three times in the comedy fundraiser "Washington's Funniest Celebrity" and placed second in 2009.[60][61][62] Humorist P. J. O'Rourke has described Norquist as "Tom Paine crossed with Lee Atwater plus just a soupçon of Madame Defarge".[63]
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43275 Nov 12, 2012
The right has lost the culture war.

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/1...
Voluntarist

United States

#43276 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
You realize this doesn't work for everything.
Beach passes - yes.
Roads - no.
The gas tax is a good way to pay for roads.
Would you agree?
Why wouldn't a gas tax work? Maybe the government isn't the best custodian of gas tax.
Voluntarist

United States

#43277 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it doesnt work that way.
It doesn't work that way because it can't work that way?
Voluntarist

United States

#43278 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Focus.
Answer FRs question. What form of government do you prefer?
A volunteer society now answer the question, how does a fictitious entity vote?
Voluntarist

United States

#43279 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying that you would like to be exempt from the laws of the land?
Should we all get to decide which rules we will follow and not follow?
How would that work with say, the flow of traffic?
Do I also get to help myself to your supply of firewood.
Or is that a type of law you have decided we should all follow?
Do you get to decide, or do we via majority vote get to decide?
How should this work, in you view?
How could land enact laws?

If the government stuck to its purpose of protecting individual rights then we wouldn't have a problem.

See the study in that European city that removed all traffic signs.

Private property is the greatest natural right.

In s voluntary society we choose who to interact with.
Voluntarist

United States

#43280 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I belive in G'ch they have RTM and they do vote on this stuff.
Have you heard about the recent controversy over leaf blowers?
No but perhaps people should act like adults and talk to neighbors instead of enacting laws.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#43281 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
How could land enact laws?
If the government stuck to its purpose of protecting individual rights then we wouldn't have a problem.
See the study in that European city that removed all traffic signs.
Private property is the greatest natural right.
In s voluntary society we choose who to interact with.
rabbee: it is not the federal governments job, to protect individual rights. it is their job, to protect the rights of the many, from the selfish rights of the few. you are confusing, the responsibilities of state and federal governments. the federal governments government is limited, for interstate functions and the comon welfare of the whole nation.
Voluntarist

United States

#43282 Nov 12, 2012
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: it is not the federal governments job, to protect individual rights. it is their job, to protect the rights of the many, from the selfish rights of the few. you are confusing, the responsibilities of state and federal governments. the federal governments government is limited, for interstate functions and the comon welfare of the whole nation.
Declaration of Independence states the purpose of government as well as many state constitutions.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#43283 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
No but perhaps people should act like adults and talk to neighbors instead of enacting laws.
And what if talking to neighbors doesn't work. Haven't you ever dealt with an unreasonable person? In a voluntary society, if your neighbor decides to burn his trash daily or process toxic waste without regard the neighbors safety or quality of life, and he won't listen to reason, what recourse will you have? Will you challenge him to a duel? Start a feud like the Hatfields and McCoys? Seriously, what recourse will you have?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#43284 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Declaration of Independence states the purpose of government as well as many state constitutions.
rabbee: no! the declaration of independance, specifies the reasoning for sucession from the brittish empire.

the constitution of the united states, specifies the duties and obligations of the us federal government.

and the state and commonwealth constitutions, specifies the duties and obligations of the state or commonwealths.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#43285 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Why wouldn't a gas tax work? Maybe the government isn't the best custodian of gas tax.
How would you propose to pay for roads?

You think a for-profit organization would be more efficient?

Do you understand that Medicare loses a far lower percentage to overhead than private medical insurance and has a higher satisfaction rate?
Voluntarist

United States

#43286 Nov 12, 2012
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: no! the declaration of independance, specifies the reasoning for sucession from the brittish empire.
the constitution of the united states, specifies the duties and obligations of the us federal government.
and the state and commonwealth constitutions, specifies the duties and obligations of the state or commonwealths.
That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted
among men.[The term "rights" had been defined earlier
this way -- "they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and
the pursuit of Happiness."]
In this way the Declaration of Independence makes is crystal
clear that government has one overarching purpose; that of
protecting the inherent human rights of life, liberty and
property (pursuit of happiness)..
Voluntarist

United States

#43287 Nov 12, 2012
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: no! the declaration of independance, specifies the reasoning for sucession from the brittish empire.
the constitution of the united states, specifies the duties and obligations of the us federal government.
and the state and commonwealth constitutions, specifies the duties and obligations of the state or commonwealths.
You are correct about the Constitutions declaring the duties but the purpose of government is stated in the declaration of independence.
Voluntarist

United States

#43288 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
How would you propose to pay for roads?
You think a for-profit organization would be more efficient?
Do you understand that Medicare loses a far lower percentage to overhead than private medical insurance and has a higher satisfaction rate?
Without government there is no for profit organization, there is no Medicare there is just men and women interacting.

How were roads paid for before?

How is garbage collection paid for where the city Mafia doesn't provide?
Voluntarist

United States

#43289 Nov 12, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
And what if talking to neighbors doesn't work. Haven't you ever dealt with an unreasonable person? In a voluntary society, if your neighbor decides to burn his trash daily or process toxic waste without regard the neighbors safety or quality of life, and he won't listen to reason, what recourse will you have? Will you challenge him to a duel? Start a feud like the Hatfields and McCoys? Seriously, what recourse will you have?
There is toxic waste in well water right now and the government protection racket does NOTHING about it.
Move
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#43290 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Without government there is no for profit organization...
What???

Were the robber barrons for-profit?
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
[Without gov't] there is no Medicare there is just men and women interacting.
Have we lost touch with you?

Gov't isn't some strange animal. It's just the name we give to those things we've decided to do together.(Though I fully understand you aren't part of the majority here.)
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
How were roads paid for before?
Before what? I think there was always some form of taxation, even before the income tax?
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
How is garbage collection paid for where the city Mafia doesn't provide?
In G'ch I believe trash pick-is private pay.

Here it's part of our taxes. So I guess I have less paperwork than up there.
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43291 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Without government there is no for profit organization, there is no Medicare there is just men and women interacting.
How were roads paid for before?
How is garbage collection paid for where the city Mafia doesn't provide?
Private garbage collection is a myth. Where do you think the garbage is dumped? In a government owned and government regulated landfill. The collection issue is a red herring.

Landfills are the most efficient solution. If it was left up to individuals, they would pollute. Once again the private market fails.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#43292 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted
among men.[The term "rights" had been defined earlier
this way -- "they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and
the pursuit of Happiness."]
In this way the Declaration of Independence makes is crystal
clear that government has one overarching purpose; that of
protecting the inherent human rights of life, liberty and
property (pursuit of happiness)..
rabbee: what you wrote only mentions, the rites of common deciency. and by no means, specifies the assignments of the executive, judicial, or congressional brances.

as the declaration of independance, was mostly written because of taxation without representation. and the abuse that took place, because of said abuses. as a result of brittish internal revenue, constantly raising taxes without representation in brittish parlament.

it is the us-constitution, that designates the check and balance roles of each of the branches of the us-government.

essencially the declaration of independance, is a dear john letter to england.

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