Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Is that your definition of freedom? Your right to other people's property?

We werent talking about freedom - we were talking about whether I prefer there would be a structure to provide me services.

But if the government plows my street or supplies me with fire protection, and levies a mandatory tax to do so, that has nothing to do with "a right to other peoples property". Take your glasses off.

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Business minded people will make more investing locally, commercial properties, businesses all of which will increase the tax rolls, something a Walmart won't do.

Both BushII and Romney were business types. ROmney was so incompetent he couldnt even run a campaign efficiently, let alone a business. Bush doesnt even merit explanation here.

Your ideas are good but evidence so far does not back it up, in fact, it is to the contrary.

[Frijoles]

MUQ wrote:

<quoted text>
Every one wants to spend less on "others" but wants to spend more on "Himself".
That is why Govt. cannot spend less!!

The Republican dominated states actually have a higher rate of return of federal spending from tax dollars than the Democratic dominated states. If we want to federal spending to decline, first we have to wean those Republicans from wanting more "stuff".

Never going to happen

[Frijoles]

Its interesting how FOX is now being lauded as doing the right thing by actually reporting the news, considering their previous role in obfuscating the news. I guess one way to make someone look good is lower the standard and have amnesia.

I admit I am loving this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/business/me...

"....But on Tuesday night, the people in charge of Fox News were confronted with a stark choice after it became clear that Mr. Romney had fallen short: was Fox, first and foremost, a place for advocacy or a place for news?

In this moment, at least, Fox chose news..."

".....Part of the reason the (election) result came as such a shock was that followers of conservative media had been told over and over that mainstream analysis was not to be trusted, that it reflected liberal ideology and not data. But they were misled by media outlets that shared their values, Fox chief among them. David Frum, the conservative columnist, made just that point on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” show last week when he said that Republicans had been “fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex.”..."

[former res]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
"I can remember our first MBA president.....just like it was yesterday.."
That absolutely sums up my point!
I will have to think about the Reagan comment - havent given much thought to that in the past. When I think of Reagan I think of Alexaner Haig and James Watt, but perhaps those are outliers. But David Stockman is the first to advocate against trickle economics now - so I suppose the ability to recognize mistakes says volumes about oneself.

Good point. They weren't all winners.

And then there were the players of Iran-Contra.

[former res]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Business minded people will make more investing locally, commercial properties, businesses all of which will increase the tax rolls, something a Walmart won't do.

You don't like being able to be lots of stuff, real cheap? The folks love Walmart. They vote with their dollars.

That's what I call economic freedom.

[former res]

Frijoles wrote:

Its interesting how FOX is now being lauded as doing the right thing by actually reporting the news, considering their previous role in obfuscating the news. I guess one way to make someone look good is lower the standard and have amnesia.
I admit I am loving this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/business/me...
"....But on Tuesday night, the people in charge of Fox News were confronted with a stark choice after it became clear that Mr. Romney had fallen short: was Fox, first and foremost, a place for advocacy or a place for news?
In this moment, at least, Fox chose news..."
".....Part of the reason the (election) result came as such a shock was that followers of conservative media had been told over and over that mainstream analysis was not to be trusted, that it reflected liberal ideology and not data. But they were misled by media outlets that shared their values, Fox chief among them. David Frum, the conservative columnist, made just that point on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” show last week when he said that Republicans had been “fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex.”..."

I heard/saw Frum say that. Now the smart conservatives are getting out ahead of the new thinking and messaging.

To wit:

WASHINGTON -- Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol said Sunday the Republican Party should accept new ideas, including the much-criticized suggestion by Democrats that taxes be allowed to go up on the wealthy.

"It won't kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires," he said on "Fox News Sunday." "It really won't, I don't think. I don't really understand why Republicans don't take Obama's offer."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/bill...

...And don't forget the new Sean Hannity on immigration

...should we hang by our thumbs waiting for the new, more sensitive Rush?!

:))

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
Good point. They weren't all winners.
And then there were the players of Iran-Contra.

Wonder what ever happened to Ollie North?

http://olivernorth.com/

"Ollie was simply terrific, and one of the best -- if not THE best speakers we've had address our group."
- Construction Industry Round Table

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Frijoles wrote:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.n ytimes.com/2012/11/10/which-po lls-fared-best-and-worst-in-th e-2012-presidential-race/?hp
Which Polls Fared Best (and Worst) in the 2012 Presidential Race
By NATE SILVER
-----
The best: Investors Business Daily
The worst: Rasmussen and Gallup

rabbee: does it really make any difference, if you lose no matter who you elect against G-D? if you lose either way you vote, then your just being delusional about it.

and not facing up, to G-D'S TheReality and Our Responsibility. is taking your chances in the hell and death lottery, really worth it? when the most common road traveled today, is the road to oblivion.

[Voluntarist]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
We werent talking about freedom - we were talking about whether I prefer there would be a structure to provide me services.
But if the government plows my street or supplies me with fire protection, and levies a mandatory tax to do so, that has nothing to do with "a right to other peoples property". Take your glasses off.

Is money property?

[Voluntarist]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
We werent talking about freedom - we were talking about whether I prefer there would be a structure to provide me services.
But if the government plows my street or supplies me with fire protection, and levies a mandatory tax to do so, that has nothing to do with "a right to other peoples property". Take your glasses off.

So I will come over and shovel your sidewalk and send you a bill.

[Voluntarist]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I heard/saw Frum say that. Now the smart conservatives are getting out ahead of the new thinking and messaging.
To wit:
WASHINGTON -- Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol said Sunday the Republican Party should accept new ideas, including the much-criticized suggestion by Democrats that taxes be allowed to go up on the wealthy.
"It won't kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires," he said on "Fox News Sunday." "It really won't, I don't think. I don't really understand why Republicans don't take Obama's offer."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/bill...
...And don't forget the new Sean Hannity on immigration
...should we hang by our thumbs waiting for the new, more sensitive Rush?!
:))

Bill Krostol is not a conservative, the article starts off with a lie.
The apple didn't fall far from the tree in his family.

[Voluntarist]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
The Republican dominated states actually have a higher rate of return of federal spending from tax dollars than the Democratic dominated states. If we want to federal spending to decline, first we have to wean those Republicans from wanting more "stuff".
Never going to happen

That's fine, as soon as the feds stop taking.

[Voluntarist]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't like being able to be lots of stuff, real cheap? The folks love Walmart. They vote with their dollars.
That's what I call economic freedom.

Don't have a problem with Walmart, have a problem with government subsidized Walmart.

[former res]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Bill Krostol is not a conservative, the article starts off with a lie.
The apple didn't fall far from the tree in his family.

What is he?

[former res]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't have a problem with Walmart, have a problem with government subsidized Walmart.

Are you against all corporate welfare?

Oil industry? The banks?

Why single out Walmart?

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
So I will come over and shovel your sidewalk and send you a bill.

I dont care about my sidewalk - I care about my street - and no, you are not welcome to do that. I only trust the government to get that right. As well as with Fire, Police, Schools, and other STUFF.

Infrastructure and common services.

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
Is money property?

Let that be your koan of choice. Go find a nice log in the forest and sit on it for a while. If you get back to me with an answer, you have failed.

[Frijoles]

Voluntarist wrote:

<quoted text>
That's fine, as soon as the feds stop taking.

Silly child, for the second time in 2 days...

We won. Get over it. Or move to Canada.

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I heard/saw Frum say that. Now the smart conservatives are getting out ahead of the new thinking and messaging.
To wit:
WASHINGTON -- Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol said Sunday the Republican Party should accept new ideas, including the much-criticized suggestion by Democrats that taxes be allowed to go up on the wealthy.
"It won't kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires," he said on "Fox News Sunday." "It really won't, I don't think. I don't really understand why Republicans don't take Obama's offer."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/bill...
...And don't forget the new Sean Hannity on immigration
...should we hang by our thumbs waiting for the new, more sensitive Rush?!
:))

I woudnt hang your hat on Rush, but anyone with a mind has no choice but to reevaluate.

I read an article somewhere that the "culture war" is over as well. We won. Except for the hard core believers. Fact is, they lost on just about every social issue according to demographics based on the exit polls.