Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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““You must not lose faith ”

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#41698
Oct 8, 2012
 
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>I think they're still out there. If you dig a little deeper into some of the issues the EPA has gotten into, far outside their mandate IMO, it seems those professional regulators need a board of regulators to oversee them.
Everywhere in America you see nepotism and usury and not merit based organizations. So sooner or later everything get slightly grubby.
But the same we see happening in Europe...costly.

People do what you inspect, not what you expect.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41699
Oct 8, 2012
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_En...
The day to day business is handled by states and even cities.
So who is overstepping?

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41700
Oct 8, 2012
 
http://www.osha.gov/
There is also a EU OSHA.
Companies, especially the smaller ones are none to happy, but this is to do with unification of rules to the highest standards.
It would not be such a problem, if they never signed the silly constitution that obligates nations to pay a certain amount to an overarching military. Which is usually exactly the amount they would need to make their countries competitive and still pay decent wages.
Furthermore this constitution states that worker-rights and social rights can be revoked if the payments to the military fall through.

Just one of the many reasons ordinary people in France and Holland disagreed. But the weird thing is that those very rules were created by the Dutch that for the longest time wanted a Dutch NATO head, and the price to pay was to betray the people and lie about it.
Failed privatisation falls in the same category.
No drip down effect, and particularly not leading to cheaper competitive rates nor better service.
And by moving the bill to 2014 they could still show a positive balance.

You could called it the libertarian fairy-tales.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#41702
Oct 8, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
1 and 2 the easiest way of finding out is to follow exactly what influenced the image of Jesus. It indeed means going through reams of Gnostic writings.


3 they were not the only reason but as usual in any society you find that trade decides who stays in power. It would be naief to suggest that ideas do not filter down from the ruling class.

4 I see little Judaism and frankly still found no reason to suppose some judaid -Christianity.(Still can't find that book or any writing by Rehme, so as to scrutinize the content).

Influences might have been there, but the Hadith shows time and again that when Hebrew try to explain their philosophy and show the content of the unchanged book that it is discarded of hand, because their is such a huge gap and it is obvious with the adaptation of jesus that islam is closer to Christian ideas and influences. Also given the mainly christian arab tribes. Not so ignorant, i would say. And as a matter of fact we still find superstitious customs rife i muslim communities.



2.

As has been shown when discussing the original codex Sinaiticus, which does not mention the name Jesus anywhere, but that talks, about 'simple man','the people' or 'proof for simple mans eyes'...instead of using the or any name, we find that modern christians are not willing to accept this version.
You would think they would jump in the air for joy in finding an original that brings them closer to the
Ans.

01. Please do the research and come out with your findings. Just assuming somethings is not what I call is scholarly approach

02. Trade is one aspect of social interaction not the Only aspect. You are doing the same mistakes as Communists did to define world only thru stomach and fight between haves and have nots. They superimpose their own ideas over history and world events and draw their own conclusions and then present that as truth and nothing but truth

03. Again your claim about Judaic influence is based on false assumptions. Never did islam claimed that it was a new or unique religion. It claimed that it is the same old religion of all prophets.

So if you find something common between islam and Judaism, islam and Christianity, it proves that these teachings of Judaism and Christianity are still intact.

04. Just look at your ramblings about codex Siniaticus words that have no real meaning. Based on assumptions and doubts and deductions that have no proof.

That is the case with all such posts.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41703
Oct 8, 2012
 
Romney to escalate conflict in the middle-east.
Let's arm those in Syria that are like us/share our value.(So 'we' can attack Iran from there.)
Where did we see that again.
They armed fatah, to see all the weapons go to Hamas.
Good thing it's the second tier peope that actually have the rules and policies in place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/m...

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41704
Oct 8, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. Please do the research and come out with your findings. Just assuming somethings is not what I call is scholarly approach
02. Trade is one aspect of social interaction not the Only aspect. You are doing the same mistakes as Communists did to define world only thru stomach and fight between haves and have nots. They superimpose their own ideas over history and world events and draw their own conclusions and then present that as truth and nothing but truth
03. Again your claim about Judaic influence is based on false assumptions. Never did islam claimed that it was a new or unique religion. It claimed that it is the same old religion of all prophets.
So if you find something common between islam and Judaism, islam and Christianity, it proves that these teachings of Judaism and Christianity are still intact.
04. Just look at your ramblings about codex Siniaticus words that have no real meaning. Based on assumptions and doubts and deductions that have no proof.
That is the case with all such posts.
That's the drawback of quoting 01 what are we talking about?
02 define the other aspects if trade was not the ONLY pertinent factor.
03 the hadith makes it obvious that is discredits judiac influences at every turn. And the verses in the quran are so out of context.(take chapter the cow that is actually about the scapegoat, as we analyzed.) So it is half-understood or not at all. You have to let go of some ingrained thinking like the age of ignorance when in fact most tribes were christian in the days of muh ahmed. And probably also that any story actually happened anywhere near mekka S.A.(As in rays shooting form the vagina of the prophets mom to be seen reflecting from the palace and walls of Damascus...or is the world still flat in that region.)
Or Abraham and living thousand of years ago, but simultaneously making different appearances in meeting nimrod.
You are asking quite a lot to put all of that on judaic or christian influences.
04 We spend months going over the codex sinaiticus in particular.
Dropped it for a while and pick it up again.
To make it easy we sticked to the mention of the name-title and title. With sidesteps to whether as is the latest claim judaism can be called early christianity and now we get judeo-christianity as early islam. Life sure is getting interesting.
I quote from the general opinion on christian boards and use established scholars and the actual text to find out if the claims are correct and /or if there are other points of views.
But frankly i've been looking in this for years, as you should well know being familiar also with the FFI board.
Hmm if i've not seen it, it does not exist? Peculiar attitude for a believer.
But i'm not going over 27,000 differences just to make some point.
Others did that allready.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41705
Oct 8, 2012
 
Ah
MAAT wrote:
1 and 2 the easiest way of finding out is to follow exactly what influenced the image of Jesus. It indeed means going through reams of Gnostic writings.

Well if you start to make claims, we can do that together.
Fair's fair.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41706
Oct 8, 2012
 
pg 1896 i showed a page of christian influences, plus a reading list with sources; now it would be about finding out what those people believed.
Greek philosophical knowledge (by war of via the Damascus court? First syriac arabic writing happened overthere. See FFI somewhere for the actual source. grin) came form constantinople after it split from Rome but had the same tenets.

But we started out with your simplistic claim.
MUQ wrote:
Jesus of Quran is a much sublime and true personality than what we find in contradicting reposts of Gospels.

The source of knowledge of Quran is Allah, who knows EVERYTHING about jesus and none of the Gospel writer can match His knowledge.
--
So frankly it would be up to you to deliver the positive proof that the description is more sublime and true. And this would have to be significantly neutral and salient to be convincing.

In the hebrew book YHVH nor Elohyim had a son.
Israel metaphorically the bride in isaiah.
Allah however might have had three wifes or daughters depending on the narrative.
And level of appeasement that was first needed.

So you are allready mixing oil and water.
---
I think the writers of the hadith and quraan (uthman et al)tried to come to some universal creed, that would be easy for trade.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41707
Oct 8, 2012
 
MUQ in the who's allah thread you quote some answering christianity forum i gather.

Which leads to odd interpretations. one i picked:
Painfull but funny.
http://biblos.com/genesis/49-10.htm
http://bibe.cc/genesis/49-10.htm
shiloh: and jacob is waiting for his son to return from Shiloh, a variant name for Egypt.

Not a sheilakh (or by any other variant spelling) prophet.

But frankly that would not be relevant.
What would be is the old texts and their actual content in as far as they circulated, plus the views of the people.
We are lucky that eastern translations are quite well documented. However not any easier. i've been breaking my head over some appellation, if they are that, in Syriac.
Did later people also have no ideas and was it indeed just IUXU being badly translated and later replaced by the name-title.
Or did this become the tale told untill it became tradition. Not questioned.
Where modern people as in scholars REALY want to know what it actually meant.

I dropped that for a while also, since i could make no headway.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41708
Oct 8, 2012
 
Very quiet morning.
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-pre-isl...
So MUQ why do arabs and muslims thus get so ticked of when it is suggested that allready since the establishement of Mekka/Bakkah that we put at 400 CE Al LAH was allready reveered.

If according to your dogma He (a definite male, with definite male points of view that happen to coincide with the timeframe mores.) has always been.

Uhm in the west we do not consider younger books with the on average same content to overtake an older tradition.
That only happens in religion and science fiction.
Usualy if the oldest version conflicts with the younger, the older tradition is upheld.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41709
Oct 8, 2012
 
Ishmael moved to the north.
We have ancient macca along the silkroute and zamzam simply as noun meaning fast flowing abundant water, plus water lord's of kabaas allover the near and middle east.
Beqa should sound familiar.

And the abraham hagar narrative was brutal. Abram forcing egyptian Hagar to walk 400 miles, highly pregnant. To nowhere whatsoever, carrying the kabaa on his back. 3000 BC, meeting nimrod at 1300 BC.

But there are many other contradictions, nicely resolved by declaring them weak/strong fiqh.
---
But let's stick with the simple, thus the character of jesus.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#41710
Oct 8, 2012
 
To: MAAT

That is the endless type of discussions I was afraid of!!

Once I start replying to your post, we are sucked into an infinite alley with side issues and one more side-side issues...

After 1000 or so posts, we find we are back where we started!!

I have no stomach for such type of discussions.

Discussions for the sake of discussions.

You have many people that have the same tendency as you. Our Frijoles, Bufford and Joel Pastaka are ideal for your kind of discussions, not me.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41711
Oct 9, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
To: MAAT
That is the endless type of discussions I was afraid of!!
Once I start replying to your post, we are sucked into an infinite alley with side issues and one more side-side issues...
After 1000 or so posts, we find we are back where we started!!
I have no stomach for such type of discussions.
Discussions for the sake of discussions.
You have many people that have the same tendency as you. Our Frijoles, Bufford and Joel Pastaka are ideal for your kind of discussions, not me.
No like i said, the narratives differ, and the only point is what rules one applies to origins. That was never resolved.
Frankly it is about you beng able to enter a neutral historical debate. Or entertain a critical attitude. The sky is not going to fall on your head. It's called the greater jihad.

Well if you expect me to do the research, but get a bit tired by your own introduced sideways.(A reaction on Najran having a kabaa too f.i. or the very different Avram narrative, as in why would the quraan and hadith call hebrews pertinent liars when all they do is speak about their book thruthfully.) So i understand your impuls. But nevertheless you would have to provide positive proof, and than i might be inclined to look into it again.

Such are the rules of debate.
Furthermore i have no vested interest in the character jesus.
All it does is quote Torah and tanakh and often wrong at that.
kevin gunning

Santiago, Chile

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#41712
Oct 9, 2012
 

Judged:

1

theyre not persecuted as badly as the Palestinians, i guarantee that.
SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41713
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
Romney to escalate conflict in the middle-east.
Let's arm those in Syria that are like us/share our value.(So 'we' can attack Iran from there.)
Where did we see that again.
They armed fatah, to see all the weapons go to Hamas.
Good thing it's the second tier peope that actually have the rules and policies in place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/m...
Obama was doing the same thing when he picked sides in Egypt and Libya, got out of Iraq and got into Iran. What's the point? Unfortunately, Obama picked the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt aka Al Qaeda instead of the secular elements which have become an endangered species in the entire region.
Some would say that Obama's 'values' more closely align with the MB. Not that I would - but some would.
SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41714
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
http://www.osha.gov/
There is also a EU OSHA.
Companies, especially the smaller ones are none to happy, but this is to do with unification of rules to the highest standards.
It would not be such a problem, if they never signed the silly constitution that obligates nations to pay a certain amount to an overarching military. Which is usually exactly the amount they would need to make their countries competitive and still pay decent wages.
Furthermore this constitution states that worker-rights and social rights can be revoked if the payments to the military fall through.
Just one of the many reasons ordinary people in France and Holland disagreed. But the weird thing is that those very rules were created by the Dutch that for the longest time wanted a Dutch NATO head, and the price to pay was to betray the people and lie about it.
Failed privatisation falls in the same category.
No drip down effect, and particularly not leading to cheaper competitive rates nor better service.
And by moving the bill to 2014 they could still show a positive balance.
You could called it the libertarian fairy-tales.
http://nationalsafety.wordpres s.com/2009/07/28/osha-cowboy-o sha-bullrider-osha-santa-osha- streaker-and-more%E2%80%A6/
SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41715
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Being independant from foreign energy, that cost an arm and a leg in paying for peace and non-interference.
Or decent use of materials so your sky-scrapers, roads and bridges do not collapse, nor houses in ever increasing amounts of hurricanes due to oceanic sligh rise of water-temperature...
No they would not.
But fighting for America's independance and sustainability (i would say a conservative agenda also, since they never went with neo-liberalism) in the long run should not be fought so vile and race-directed as it is.
And counter-productive.
The emotion that you dismissed was the genuine feeling of disenfranchised people feeling a new hope, albeit through the symbolism of the first ever elected black president.
I've skimmed several sites and i would say racism has never been so outspoken bar groups that always catered in it.
But Sea you would vote conservative if you could, so have you ever actually laid the let's say good conservative agenda next to the democratic one, and made a comparison?
Yes, it's somewhere in the middle with good ideas from both sides. Unfortunately, the voters vote and the extreme elements of the dominant party take over. I would happily vote for a black president - bring one on.
(Obama is technically half-black). What happened in the Clinton admin was the push to get everyone the 'right' to own their own home - a lovely idea. Unfortunately they couldn't afford to maintain them or pay for them. Everybody paid the price, except the junk bond people who made a fortune packaging risky mortgages. Guaranteed by the taxpayers.

http://www.google.com/search...

gotta get to work - see you tonight

““You must not lose faith ”

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#41716
Oct 9, 2012
 
have a good one.
I'm at home with a jaw infection.

Apropos the faith of the king of Tyre, MUQ.
http://concordances.org/bdb/6938.htm
qedar and it's actual meaning
Northwest-arabia now/jordan, close to Nabatea, N.E.
bedouine, dark dressed.
http://concordances.org/bdb/6152.htm
arab- steppe plain western/evening flat land.
Comp. aravah
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#41717
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
Romney to escalate conflict in the middle-east.
Let's arm those in Syria that are like us/share our value.(So 'we' can attack Iran from there.)
Where did we see that again.
They armed fatah, to see all the weapons go to Hamas.
Good thing it's the second tier peope that actually have the rules and policies in place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/m...
rabbee: don't care what anyone says is going to happen. when it is going to happen, precisely as commanded to happen by G-D. this whether the jews, can't accept it, the christians can't accept it, or the rest of the pagan world can't accept it.

all armed plagues are the result of your mental deprivation against G-D, here in TheStory of Creation.

TheTorah is TheProphecy, of all past, present and future events, in this whole world rebelling against G-D.

with only little over one-thousand years before Parashas Noach again. with this world that, just can't get it together here in TheStory of Creation agains'es.

with thousands and thousands of third or fourth, failed times behind us. and without knowing, how many more before us. in this world mentally fighting against G-D, to get it physically all wrong, here in TheStory of Creation agains'es.

in this world and their grandmother again, that just can comprehend being actually here in TheStory of Creation from TheG-D WHO can give it again and again forever if need be.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41718
Oct 9, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying more people voting equals better chance for Obama win?
Splain please.
Not necessarily - just that it will be a close election

Speaking of polls - this is interesting - basically it is contending that at the end of the day, Romney only got a few percent bump, thats all, bringing the race back to what it was before the Obama surge.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012...

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