Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil Unions

Nov 30, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CBS2

The Illinois House has approved a measure to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples.

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Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42247
Sep 24, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, we have a beginning.
You are finally equating a sexual defect with a hearing defect.
They have established their own identity and even language that acknowledges the issue. How about homosexuals?
Nor do they demand that others deny that they have a hearing problem. How about the courage to face your problem?
Most have rejected being treated as victims. You could learn the most from that, look at the whine you post...
No, I wasn't equating anything, hence the sarcasm tag at the bottom.

LGBT people are much more common, comprising at least 5% of the general population. They also lack one critical thing compared to your average physical "defect", social acceptance.

What they want is to be treated with the same dignity as everyone else. They want to be known and respected for what they are, not for what they aren't. The whole concept of having pride parades is so they can feel unashamed of their true selves.

They have developed their own identity and culture, mostly as a result of solidarity against widespread discrimination. They know who they are and they're not the ones making excuses, it's the anti crowd that is: "Oh, you know they can't procreate; they're too feminine/masculine; they were probably missing a mother/father figure etc."

The anti crowd tries to assign LGBT people with all the trappings of a generic physical defect, but when it comes down to it, they act offended rather than compassionate towards them. I don't think people normally get offended by a blind person feeling his way around.

And by the way, just to use the analogy, trying to "convert" LGBT people to act "normally" isn't being compassionate. It would be like telling a blind person to stop relying on his superior senses of hearing or touch to get around, taking away his walking stick, and coercing him to try and "see" as best as he can. Plus, if you were born blind, I doubt you would think of yourself as "defective" compared to other people.

So what explains this seemingly contradictory behavior by the anti-LGBT crowd? It's homophobia, plain and simple. They don't want them to be socially accepted on a wide scale. It's irrational. It's senseless. It's a deep-seated, artificial distrust and/or dislike of people who act or think differently.

The reason that attitudes on this are changing is because unconditional love is natural, while prejudice has to be taught and maintained externally. And hardline social conservatives are screaming because the worldview that's been constructed in their minds--from Galileo, to Copernicus, to Darwin; from abolition to civil rights--is once again being sundered. And deep down, I suspect most of them know they will lose this issue too. The ones that don't are the ones you find at the Flat Earth Society today. So who's the one whining, me or you?

Since: Jun 11

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#42248
Sep 24, 2013
 
"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the liberty of the person protected by the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.

The liberty protected by the Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause contains within it the prohibition against denying to any person the equal protection of the laws. While the Fifth Amendment itself withdraws from the Government the power to degrade or demean in the way this law does, the equal protection guarantee of the Fourteenth Amendment makes that Fifth Amendment right all the more specific and all the better understood and preserved." (Windsor)

Whether you consider sexual orientation to be a genetic defect or not, "all persons" does not make exceptions for genetic differences. Fundamental rights belong to all persons.

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#42249
Sep 24, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wasn't equating anything, hence the sarcasm tag at the bottom.
LGBT people are much more common, comprising at least 5% of the general population. They also lack one critical thing compared to your average physical "defect", social acceptance.
What they want is to be treated with the same dignity as everyone else. They want to be known and respected for what they are, not for what they aren't. The whole concept of having pride parades is so they can feel unashamed of their true selves.
They have developed their own identity and culture, mostly as a result of solidarity against widespread discrimination. They know who they are and they're not the ones making excuses, it's the anti crowd that is: "Oh, you know they can't procreate; they're too feminine/masculine; they were probably missing a mother/father figure etc."
The anti crowd tries to assign LGBT people with all the trappings of a generic physical defect, but when it comes down to it, they act offended rather than compassionate towards them. I don't think people normally get offended by a blind person feeling his way around.
And by the way, just to use the analogy, trying to "convert" LGBT people to act "normally" isn't being compassionate. It would be like telling a blind person to stop relying on his superior senses of hearing or touch to get around, taking away his walking stick, and coercing him to try and "see" as best as he can. Plus, if you were born blind, I doubt you would think of yourself as "defective" compared to other people.
So what explains this seemingly contradictory behavior by the anti-LGBT crowd? It's homophobia, plain and simple. They don't want them to be socially accepted on a wide scale. It's irrational. It's senseless. It's a deep-seated, artificial distrust and/or dislike of people who act or think differently.
The reason that attitudes on this are changing is because unconditional love is natural, while prejudice has to be taught and maintained externally. And hardline social conservatives are screaming because the worldview that's been constructed in their minds--from Galileo, to Copernicus, to Darwin; from abolition to civil rights--is once again being sundered. And deep down, I suspect most of them know they will lose this issue too. The ones that don't are the ones you find at the Flat Earth Society today. So who's the one whining, me or you?
Excellent!

The "defect" argument is a clear attempt to dehumanize.

Dehumanization is necessary in order to justify harm through denial of equal treatment, if not direct punishment.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#42250
Sep 24, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wasn't equating anything, hence the sarcasm tag at the bottom.
LGBT people are much more common, comprising at least 5% of the general population. They also lack one critical thing compared to your average physical "defect", social acceptance.
What they want is to be treated with the same dignity as everyone else. They want to be known and respected for what they are, not for what they aren't. The whole concept of having pride parades is so they can feel unashamed of their true selves.
They have developed their own identity and culture, mostly as a result of solidarity against widespread discrimination. They know who they are and they're not the ones making excuses, it's the anti crowd that is: "Oh, you know they can't procreate; they're too feminine/masculine; they were probably missing a mother/father figure etc."
The anti crowd tries to assign LGBT people with all the trappings of a generic physical defect, but when it comes down to it, they act offended rather than compassionate towards them. I don't think people normally get offended by a blind person feeling his way around.
And by the way, just to use the analogy, trying to "convert" LGBT people to act "normally" isn't being compassionate. It would be like telling a blind person to stop relying on his superior senses of hearing or touch to get around, taking away his walking stick, and coercing him to try and "see" as best as he can. Plus, if you were born blind, I doubt you would think of yourself as "defective" compared to other people.
So what explains this seemingly contradictory behavior by the anti-LGBT crowd? It's homophobia, plain and simple. They don't want them to be socially accepted on a wide scale. It's irrational. It's senseless. It's a deep-seated, artificial distrust and/or dislike of people who act or think differently.
The reason that attitudes on this are changing is because unconditional love is natural, while prejudice has to be taught and maintained externally. And hardline social conservatives are screaming because the worldview that's been constructed in their minds--from Galileo, to Copernicus, to Darwin; from abolition to civil rights--is once again being sundered. And deep down, I suspect most of them know they will lose this issue too. The ones that don't are the ones you find at the Flat Earth Society today. So who's the one whining, me or you?
No, you were. Now you are backtracking.

Hearing impaired receive extra support and respect exactly because they do acknowledge their handicap.

Nor have homosexuals established their own identity. They are trying to impose a impostor relationship on marriage.

None of this has anything to do with conversion therapy. You are desperately trying to shift from the analogy YOU posted.

Live with it.
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42251
Sep 24, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you were. Now you are backtracking.
Hearing impaired receive extra support and respect exactly because they do acknowledge their handicap.
Nor have homosexuals established their own identity. They are trying to impose a impostor relationship on marriage.
None of this has anything to do with conversion therapy. You are desperately trying to shift from the analogy YOU posted.
Live with it.
You were the one who originally labelled LGBT people as "defective".
Then I made a post that was meant to point out the ridiculousness of such a comparison. I even debated with myself for a moment whether or not to include the "sarcasm" tag, because I thought it would be obvious, but evidently it still went over your head.
You're the one with the misconception, and when I try to point it out to you, you accuse me of backtracking? Have a little humility please.
There's no LGBT culture? Excuse me? Have ever been to a pride parade, or even just stepped inside a gay bar? Do you know any of the terminology that gay people use to communicate discreetly? Have you seen the rainbow flags, the angel/devil wings, people in drag, or just breathed in the relaxed atmosphere? I don't know whether your statement was made in supreme ignorance or just out a refusal to accept, but this is about as cultural as it gets.
And not to mention that you haven't even begun to address my other points.
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42252
Sep 24, 2013
 
Finally, I would like to add that even though you may view gayness as a defect, not everyone shares your opinion. Just as left-handedness isn't viewed as a defect by most people today (it was in certain societies in the past)

Not acknowledging one's left-handedness is trying to write with your right hand anyway, rather than developing healthy writing habits with your left.

Not acknowledging one's homosexuality is trying to get into heterosexual relationships anyway, rather than developing a healthy relationship with someone who you can love back.
beers

Oswego, IL

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#42253
Sep 24, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>Oh dear...

Perception IS reality. If the two partners perceive it as a real marriage, if their adopted children perceive it as a real marriage, if the law recognizes it as a real marriage, and the community around them perceives it as a real marriage, then for all intents and purposes, it IS a real marriage.
Perception is reality? Have you talked to a drunk person before?

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Feb 13

Is A Reality

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#42254
Sep 24, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>

Hearing impaired receive extra support and respect exactly because they do acknowledge their handicap.
We don't have a handicap. Therefore, the only thing we have to acknowledge is that we are fabulous.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor have homosexuals established their own identity./QUOTE]

We have established an identity; it's called marriage. If you can't share a word, then call yours "holy matrimony". The federal government has spoken, and we have marriage.

[QUOTE who="KiMare"]<quo ted text>

Live with it.
Indeed, live with it.

Still married and your mental masturbations and verbal ejaculations are powerless to do anything about it.

Impotent troll.

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Feb 13

Is A Reality

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#42255
Sep 24, 2013
 
We have established an identity; it's called marriage. If you can't share a word, then call yours "holy matrimony". The federal government has spoken, and we have marriage.
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42256
Sep 24, 2013
 
beers wrote:
<quoted text>
Perception is reality? Have you talked to a drunk person before?
Drunk? Yeah I sometimes talk to myself when I'm drunk. What's your point?
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42257
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't have a handicap. Therefore, the only thing we have to acknowledge is that we are fabulous.
<quoted text>
Indeed, live with it.
Still married and your mental masturbations and verbal ejaculations are powerless to do anything about it.
Impotent troll.
I don't think he's trolling, just severely misinformed and having difficulty reconciling his personal conceptions of how the world should work with the current reality. It sounds like trolling because he's basically trying to defend the indefensible.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#42258
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
You were the one who originally labelled LGBT people as "defective".
Then I made a post that was meant to point out the ridiculousness of such a comparison. I even debated with myself for a moment whether or not to include the "sarcasm" tag, because I thought it would be obvious, but evidently it still went over your head.
You're the one with the misconception, and when I try to point it out to you, you accuse me of backtracking? Have a little humility please.
There's no LGBT culture? Excuse me? Have ever been to a pride parade, or even just stepped inside a gay bar? Do you know any of the terminology that gay people use to communicate discreetly? Have you seen the rainbow flags, the angel/devil wings, people in drag, or just breathed in the relaxed atmosphere? I don't know whether your statement was made in supreme ignorance or just out a refusal to accept, but this is about as cultural as it gets.
And not to mention that you haven't even begun to address my other points.
You have yet to post one valid source that disputes the failure of homosexual mating behavior. And why there is a desperate attempt to discover the cause and purpose of that orientation.

You also need to learn the difference between identity and culture, or more likely, quit the deceitful attempt to shift the point.

I addressed your other points when I noted your red herrings.

This remains;

At it's most basic essence,

Marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#42259
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
Finally, I would like to add that even though you may view gayness as a defect, not everyone shares your opinion. Just as left-handedness isn't viewed as a defect by most people today (it was in certain societies in the past)
Not acknowledging one's left-handedness is trying to write with your right hand anyway, rather than developing healthy writing habits with your left.
Not acknowledging one's homosexuality is trying to get into heterosexual relationships anyway, rather than developing a healthy relationship with someone who you can love back.
1. Evolution is a process of constant mutation. Some mutations have a positive effect, and others do not. All have a cause and effect that scientist seek to evaluate. They are not benign as you attempt to insinuate.

2. Additionally, homosexuality relates to sexuality while left-handedness is believed to relate primarily to survival. They are a repeating mutation.

Here is an example of a overview of left-handedness. You find me a similar one on homosexuality.

http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42260
Sep 25, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Evolution is a process of constant mutation. Some mutations have a positive effect, and others do not. All have a cause and effect that scientist seek to evaluate. They are not benign as you attempt to insinuate.
2. Additionally, homosexuality relates to sexuality while left-handedness is believed to relate primarily to survival. They are a repeating mutation.
Here is an example of a overview of left-handedness. You find me a similar one on homosexuality.
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
Again, you miss the forest for the trees. In this day and age, does it really matter if a certain trait served some evolutionary purpose some millions of years ago? Are we living in those same conditions under which natural selection operated? Do we care so much about past evolutionarily advantageous traits that we'll let it translate into social discrimination? Those are rhetorical questions by the way, since it seems like literary subtlety is rather counterproductive here.
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42261
Sep 25, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Evolution is a process of constant mutation. Some mutations have a positive effect, and others do not. All have a cause and effect that scientist seek to evaluate. They are not benign as you attempt to insinuate.
2. Additionally, homosexuality relates to sexuality while left-handedness is believed to relate primarily to survival. They are a repeating mutation.
Here is an example of a overview of left-handedness. You find me a similar one on homosexuality.
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
Reading your post further, I have to resent your appeal to science, since it's obvious you're not a scientist where it counts. Your very first sentence illustrates a very shallow understanding of evolutionary biology. Evolution is not "a process of constant mutation"...

Since: Jun 11

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#42262
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think he's trolling, just severely misinformed and having difficulty reconciling his personal conceptions of how the world should work with the current reality. It sounds like trolling because he's basically trying to defend the indefensible.
Notice the reliance on dehumanization and stigmatization.

This goes far beyond a resistance to assimilate new information, to promoting a prejudice intended to justify harming those viewed as less than deserving of equal human rights.

Many have tried, but your efforts are appreciated, and exposing prejudice as irrational is always a worthy effort, whether the person promoting prejudice benefits and grows or not.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#42263
Sep 25, 2013
 

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Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you miss the forest for the trees. In this day and age, does it really matter if a certain trait served some evolutionary purpose some millions of years ago? Are we living in those same conditions under which natural selection operated? Do we care so much about past evolutionarily advantageous traits that we'll let it translate into social discrimination? Those are rhetorical questions by the way, since it seems like literary subtlety is rather counterproductive here.
Here we go again...

YOU brought up the evolutionary comparison. Now it doesn't matter???

Only because you don't care about truth, science or reality. You have made your decision.

Further, your attempt to minimize is silly stupid! Mating behavior is not just any old evolutionary trait you can take or leave. It is no different than saying we can take or leave breathing air, or drinking water.

Here is what you keep trying to slime around and can't;

At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a defective and total failure of mating behavior.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#42264
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
Reading your post further, I have to resent your appeal to science, since it's obvious you're not a scientist where it counts. Your very first sentence illustrates a very shallow understanding of evolutionary biology. Evolution is not "a process of constant mutation"...
You 'resent'???

LOL, too funny.

Here, start with Evolution 101;

Read both pages

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/...
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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Sep 25, 2013
 

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Notice the reliance on dehumanization and stigmatization.
This goes far beyond a resistance to assimilate new information, to promoting a prejudice intended to justify harming those viewed as less than deserving of equal human rights.
Many have tried, but your efforts are appreciated, and exposing prejudice as irrational is always a worthy effort, whether the person promoting prejudice benefits and grows or not.
Thanks. Out of curiosity I decided to visit the California forums, since I don't normally post here. It's the same people posting the same ignorant stuff. Some people just absolutely refuse to admit when they're wrong.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You also need to learn the difference between identity and culture, or more likely, quit the deceitful attempt to shift the point.
I addressed your other points when I noted your red herrings.
A culture encompasses an identity. You could replace the word "culture" with "identity" in my previous post and the point would still stand.

None of what I posted was red herrings. It's just you that refuses to see the larger context and instead focuses on the narrow and trivial stuff such as same sex couples not being able to procreate inside their marriage (yet).

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#42266
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. Out of curiosity I decided to visit the California forums, since I don't normally post here. It's the same people posting the same ignorant stuff. Some people just absolutely refuse to admit when they're wrong.
<quoted text>
A culture encompasses an identity. You could replace the word "culture" with "identity" in my previous post and the point would still stand.
None of what I posted was red herrings. It's just you that refuses to see the larger context and instead focuses on the narrow and trivial stuff such as same sex couples not being able to procreate inside their marriage (yet).
Culture and identity are very distinct. They do not equate.

You keep trying to avoid the points you responded to and change to others. I'm not letting you.

Procreation is not 'trivial' to marriage.

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