Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil Unions

Nov 30, 2010 Full story: CBS2 51,898

The Illinois House has approved a measure to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples.

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beers

United States

#41567 Aug 5, 2013
cubeshaker wrote:
<quoted text>Marriage began only in the bible....
Got anything to back that up.... other than your holy book?.... of course not...

We are not a "christian" nation... if we were we would do a biblical check on all our laws. We are a natin of many religions and beliefs... to believe otherwise is silly
Ok then tell me where it first appeared.
CDC

Saint Louis, MO

#41568 Aug 5, 2013
Correction:
The Bible was not the ONLY source of our laws.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
While many of our laws are based on principals that can be found in many religious texts including the bible, those are universal. Many things required in the bible are prohibited by our laws. The bible was not the source of our laws, as Mahz points out.
The founders were well aware of the atrocities perpetuated through the ages based on nothing more than a few passages found in the bible. The wanted to keep the bible out of the law, not to enshrine it there.
Thomas Paine:
"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book
(the Bible)." "It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."
James Madison
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#41569 Aug 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
To claim the rights, you have to establish equality. You can't.
I don't used the Bible to prove SS marriage is an oxymoron, I use science.
Matt 19 gives the option of celibacy as opposed to life long marriage between a male and female.
Again, to qualify for fundamental civil rights, you must be human. That is the only requirement.(SCOTUS: Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374, 384 (1978):[T]he right to marry is of fundamental importance for all individuals.

You do not have to earn fundamental rights. Restrictions on that right may be made, but only if they provide a compelling and legitimate governmental interest. The restriction on gender is an artificial one, as neither sexual activity nor procreation are required for marriage to remain a fundamental right. Your personal prejudice fails to provide any legitimate governmental interest.

Your interpretation of scripture is your interpretation, and as you note, has no place in the law.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#41570 Aug 5, 2013
beers wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok then tell me where it first appeared.
Archeological evidence shows marriage existed before written language in various places around the globe.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#41571 Aug 5, 2013
CDC wrote:
Correction:
The Bible was not the ONLY source of our laws.
<quoted text>
If the bible was the source of our laws, we would have a very different set of laws, including the constitution, as has been pointed out. We would not have freedom to believe anything we choose, but would be required to follow the bible. The fact universal principals can be found among all of the other biblical laws we ignore, does not mean it was the source of those laws.
cubeshaker

Romeoville, IL

#41572 Aug 5, 2013
beers wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok then tell me where it first appeared.
Who knows... but it is certain that it happened before some one found some transcript written by people no where near the time aof adam and eve.....

Face it if you really believe that the A AND E story is true... then you must admit that God is ok with incest.
CDC

Saint Louis, MO

#41573 Aug 5, 2013
One more time.
It was not the ONLY source.
To say it did not have influence is just crazy.
Many books influence our laws.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
If the bible was the source of our laws, we would have a very different set of laws, including the constitution, as has been pointed out. We would not have freedom to believe anything we choose, but would be required to follow the bible. The fact universal principals can be found among all of the other biblical laws we ignore, does not mean it was the source of those laws.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#41574 Aug 5, 2013
CDC wrote:
One more time.
It was not the ONLY source.
To say it did not have influence is just crazy.
Many books influence our laws.
<quoted text>
So how do you explain the fact most biblical laws did not make it in, no belief in God is required, or you can worship any God or gods, golden calf, etc. you choose?

Again, universal principals such as treating others as you would yourself can be found in all religious and non religious ethical belief systems as well as in the bible.
CDC

Saint Louis, MO

#41575 Aug 5, 2013
Can't argue with that. You are FINALLY catching on.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you explain the fact most biblical laws did not make it in, no belief in God is required, or you can worship any God or gods, golden calf, etc. you choose?
Again, universal principals such as treating others as you would yourself can be found in all religious and non religious ethical belief systems as well as in the bible.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#41576 Aug 5, 2013
CDC wrote:
Can't argue with that. You are FINALLY catching on.
<quoted text>
Same thing I said before. The fact universal principals can be found among all of the other biblical laws we ignore, does not mean it was the source of those laws.

You didn't address why most of the 10 commandments are not law, and the ones that are, are also universal, and why the thousands of other biblical laws are not civil laws.

Ironically, the golden rule, which can be found in all ethical belief systems and is promoted as the most important rule of all in the bible, is ignored and contradicted when we refuse to treat the marriages of same sex couples equally under the laws in effect for opposite sex couples.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#41577 Aug 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
To claim the rights, you have to establish equality. You can't.
I don't used the Bible to prove SS marriage is an oxymoron, I use science.
Matt 19 gives the option of celibacy as opposed to life long marriage between a male and female.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, to qualify for fundamental civil rights, you must be human. That is the only requirement.(SCOTUS: Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374, 384 (1978):[T]he right to marry is of fundamental importance for all individuals.
You do not have to earn fundamental rights. Restrictions on that right may be made, but only if they provide a compelling and legitimate governmental interest. The restriction on gender is an artificial one, as neither sexual activity nor procreation are required for marriage to remain a fundamental right. Your personal prejudice fails to provide any legitimate governmental interest.
Your interpretation of scripture is your interpretation, and as you note, has no place in the law.
We are not talking about basic human rights, we are talking about special rights for a unique relationship.

That is why gender, children and number are part of the discrimination.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#41578 Aug 5, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Archeological evidence shows marriage existed before written language in various places around the globe.
At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior.

'ss marriage' is literally an oxymoron.
beers

Oswego, IL

#41579 Aug 5, 2013
cubeshaker wrote:
<quoted text>Who knows... but it is certain that it happened before some one found some transcript written by people no where near the time aof adam and eve.....

Face it if you really believe that the A AND E story is true... then you must admit that God is ok with incest.

Well to me it starts right in the first part if the bible.
And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said:“This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.(Genesis 2:21-24 NKJV)

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#41580 Aug 6, 2013
its still pumpity pumpity Babe,
CDC

Saint Louis, MO

#41581 Aug 6, 2013
AGENDAWARPED - A too far gone agendist.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Same thing I said before. The fact universal principals can be found among all of the other biblical laws we ignore, does not mean it was the source of those laws.
You didn't address why most of the 10 commandments are not law, and the ones that are, are also universal, and why the thousands of other biblical laws are not civil laws.
Ironically, the golden rule, which can be found in all ethical belief systems and is promoted as the most important rule of all in the bible, is ignored and contradicted when we refuse to treat the marriages of same sex couples equally under the laws in effect for opposite sex couples.

“"Not all who wander are lost."”

Since: Mar 10

freshroast666@gmail.com

#41582 Aug 6, 2013
I'm gone for a few weeks and come back to see KiMare is still regurgitating the same nonsensical statements. Shocking. Not.

Does anyone here (other than KiMare) have any idea what exactly a "cross cultural constraint" is and how it applies to evolutionary mating behavior? Does anyone (other than KiMare) know what "evolutionary mating behavior" is?

Does anyone here (other than KiMare) know what a "defective failure" of mating behavior is? Can a failure be defective?

Does anyone here (other than KiMare) understand why the marriage of two people of the same gender constitutes an "oxymoron"?

He has said many times - ad nauseum - that to claim rights one must establish equality (as if being a human being isn't enough). In our society, only those who are guilty of crimes can be denied rights. Why have any people ever had to fight for their rights in this country? Did African-Americans have to "establish" their equality to finally be granted the same rights caucasians had been enjoying? How about women? How about people with physical limitations? Who decided that handicapped people should have equal access to anything? When did they "establish" their equality?

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#41583 Aug 6, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
To claim the rights, you have to establish equality. You can't.
I don't used the Bible to prove SS marriage is an oxymoron, I use science.
Matt 19 gives the option of celibacy as opposed to life long marriage between a male and female.
<quoted text>
We are not talking about basic human rights, we are talking about special rights for a unique relationship.
That is why gender, children and number are part of the discrimination.
Again, marriage is a fundamental right of all persons. This is a fact of law. SCOTUS: Turner v. Safley, 482 U.S. 78, 95 (1987):The decision to marry is a fundamental right

Your desire to make it a privilege is not supported by the law. There is no requirement for procreation or even sexual activity or ability, therefore the gender restriction provides no legitimate governmental interest.
cubeshaker

Romeoville, IL

#41584 Aug 6, 2013
beers wrote:
<quoted text>
Well to me it starts right in the first part if the bible.
And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said:“This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.(Genesis 2:21-24 NKJV)
So... Each religion has their own belief on how the world was started. Doesn't make the Bible correct. And since we are not a theocracy it REALLY does not matter what any persons holy book says.

Now let me ask you this.. you "believing" in the Bible...do women at your church cover their heads while in church or while praying?
Lawyer

United States

#41585 Aug 6, 2013
Come on

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#41586 Aug 6, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, marriage is a fundamental right of all persons. This is a fact of law. SCOTUS: Turner v. Safley, 482 U.S. 78, 95 (1987):The decision to marry is a fundamental right
Your desire to make it a privilege is not supported by the law. There is no requirement for procreation or even sexual activity or ability, therefore the gender restriction provides no legitimate governmental interest.
I simply point out that many people and the number are discriminated against.

However, at its most basic essence and anything there after, marriage is distinct from SS couples.

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