“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#81 Oct 9, 2012
Mister Tonka wrote:
I leave punishment of criminals up to the justice system and consider their debt paid once they are released. Isn't that the way its supposed to work?
No. Sex offenders register for life. Ex felons can never legally own a gun, same as those convicted of domestic abuse. I suppose you have a problem with that?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#82 Oct 9, 2012
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Sex offenders register for life. Ex felons can never legally own a gun, same as those convicted of domestic abuse. I suppose you have a problem with that?
That's PART of their court ordered punishment levied by the justice system. I'm fine with that.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#83 Oct 9, 2012
IE... Your ok with it.
You either support the decision your you dont dude.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>now who is ignoring posts? I said would not want him on my coaching staff, but his hire would not be enough to make me stop rooting for my team.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#84 Oct 9, 2012
great non answer, care to be any more vauge?
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, I am drawing conclusions, but they are far from arbitrary.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#85 Oct 9, 2012
I really dont get you.
You place no value on remorse at all?
Victims statements are all about the perceived remorse of the accused. It helps guide the judge to consider the sentence of the offender, and you want to chuck it all out the window....
Sorry Tonk, your views fall well short of what I consider justice. Just as mine probably create impossible standards of what justice is to you.

I am done with this conversation. we have exhausted it. Let's call it a draw.
Mister Tonka wrote:
Race, if you position is that Vick deserves life in prison, ok(that seems to be moon's take). But if not, do you have an OBJECTIVE way to determine that he has been punished enough. I just can't beleive that you base it all on whether or not you think he is remorseful. With that method, you'd be granting absolution to the better actors as well as the truly remorsefiul.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#86 Oct 9, 2012
RACE wrote:
IE... Your ok with it.
You either support the decision your you dont dude.
<quoted text>
If your child makes a poor decision that you disgree with and commits a crime, does you supporting your child equate to you being OK with the decision. Do you need to shun your child in order to prove that you disagree with his choices?

I can support my school while disagreeing with hiring decisions they make.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#87 Oct 9, 2012
RACE wrote:
great non answer, care to be any more vauge?
<quoted text>
Not vague at all. In the post to moon, I spelled out what I see from both of you as inconsistencies. Go back and read it.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#88 Oct 9, 2012
RACE wrote:
I really dont get you.
You place no value on remorse at all?
Victims statements are all about the perceived remorse of the accused. It helps guide the judge to consider the sentence of the offender, and you want to chuck it all out the window....
Sorry Tonk, your views fall well short of what I consider justice. Just as mine probably create impossible standards of what justice is to you.
I am done with this conversation. we have exhausted it. Let's call it a draw.
<quoted text>
Farewell.

In parting I will say, when it comes to crime and PUNISHMENT, I look for the justice system to mete out punishment not penance. You committed crime X and we as a people have determined that your punishment for this act is punishment Y. Serve your punishment and lets not see you back here again. Whether you stay trouble because you found Jesus or because you just don't want to lose your freedom again is irrelevant to me, and really, something I can never know for sure anyway so I base my judgment of justice on objective measures.
Ralph

Braidwood, IL

#89 Oct 10, 2012
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>That's PART of their court ordered punishment levied by the justice system. I'm fine with that.
Now you're back-pedaling. You said their debt was paid once they were released.

And if deep-fried tacos are more important to you than a family's brutal loss of a loved-one, that says a lot about your character.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#90 Oct 10, 2012
Ralph wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're back-pedaling. You said their debt was paid once they were released.
The idea behind our justice system is that their debt is paid when they serve the punishment handed down by the courts. The meat of that is the time served, but it does include any additional stipulations applicable to after release. I am of the mindset that the purpose of the justice system is to hand down a punishment for the crime. When you were a kid and you did something wrong, your parents punished you. Once you got the time out or the spanking or the grounding, or tv taken away for a day, your punishment was done. They didn't come back a month later and say, "you know, you f'd up last month, so I'm gonna send you to your room again." The handed down a punishment they felt was appropriate for your infraction and they moved on once you served out that punishment. Why do you not see the justice system the same way?

Not backpedaling at all, dog. I mean ralph.

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#91 Oct 10, 2012
Tonka,
Justice is not the issue, but rather the propensity and predisposition for depraved individuals to commit crime and violence.
The NFL obviously has very low standards.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#92 Oct 10, 2012
Sometimes. It's called tough love. You kick your kid out of the house because he is stealing all your sheit and buying crack.
You force them to realize the consequences of their actions.
So in the case of your college, that should equate to your refusal to support their decision and withhold any donations.
Tough love baby!
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>If your child makes a poor decision that you disgree with and commits a crime, does you supporting your child equate to you being OK with the decision. Do you need to shun your child in order to prove that you disagree with his choices?
I can support my school while disagreeing with hiring decisions they make.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#93 Oct 10, 2012
RACE wrote:
Sometimes. It's called tough love. You kick your kid out of the house because he is stealing all your sheit and buying crack.
You force them to realize the consequences of their actions.
So in the case of your college, that should equate to your refusal to support their decision and withhold any donations.
Tough love baby!
<quoted text>
What are you doing back here? Thought you left. Couldn't stand to be away, huh?

You kick your kid out of the house cause he's stealing your shit. That's punishment for his crime. But what about when your kid gets sent to jail for stealing from the 7-11? When he gets out you gonna consider his jail time punishment served and show support for him moving forward? Or you gonna withhod your support due to his past transgression?

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#94 Oct 10, 2012
Not exactly. He will stay banned until he straightens himself out. At that point he will have served his time. Straightening out is not just refraining from stealing (well, except in your eyes).

Would you let a convicted phedo hang around with your kids? He did his time. Should a phedo be allowed to be a mall Santa and have kids sitting on his lap all day?
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>What are you doing back here? Thought you left. Couldn't stand to be away, huh?
You kick your kid out of the house cause he's stealing your shit. That's punishment for his crime.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#95 Oct 10, 2012
RACE wrote:
Not exactly. He will stay banned until he straightens himself out. At that point he will have served his time. Straightening out is not just refraining from stealing
Define that in objective terms. At what point do you consider him "straightened out"?

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#96 Oct 10, 2012
Answer that for me by replying to my other questions in that post.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Define that in objective terms. At what point do you consider him "straightened out"?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#97 Oct 10, 2012
RACE wrote:
Would you let a convicted phedo hang around with your kids? He did his time. Should a phedo be allowed to be a mall Santa and have kids sitting on his lap all day?
<quoted text>
Just so I'm not accused of dodging your questions: No I would not want a convicted pedo to be a mall santa. That job puts too much temptation in front of him to be a repeat offender. But if the mall hired him as a clerk, I have no problem. If Macy's hires him as manager, I have no problem. If the architectural firm that has been contracted to add a new mutimillion dollar wing to the mall hires him to head up the project cause he's a great architect, I have no problem. To me, that's the way the system is supposed to work. Those jobs have zero to do with the crime he committed.

Would I want to be friends with a person like that? No. But can't see the point in punishing someone who hires him unless my objective is to continue making his life hard after he's served his time in jail. If that's the objective, then to me that means he was not sentenced long enough. To me the objective is to come out of prison, theoretically with a clean slate.

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#98 Oct 10, 2012
Tonka,
Just for comparison, look what happened to Pete Rose.
All he was doing was betting on baseball and he got banned for life. From the Hall of Fame too, I think.
Lance Armstrong too has been black-balled from professional sports. And if I am not mistaken, as a spokesperson as well.
jenab

United States

#99 Oct 10, 2012
i like sex ..........
so call me and miss call me fast
+919925673309

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#100 Oct 10, 2012
So now you are contradicting yourself. Before you said you did not give a rats ass what kind of job he had as long as he "behaved".

See, its all relative and subjective, its your perception of what is and is not "Time Served". If you were true to your principal you would have to concede that an xcon could indeed be a mall santa, even if he was a phedo.

That is not to say you want to continue to punish him for his crime (which you are implying I am doing), but rather, that occupation and his criminal past are just "Not a good fit"

Well, that is how I see vick and the NFL.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Just so I'm not accused of dodging your questions: No I would not want a convicted pedo to be a mall santa. That job puts too much temptation in front of him to be a repeat offender.

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