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21 - 40 of 116 Comments Last updated Oct 11, 2012

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#21 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
I do not apply it to Vick because I dont believe he is a changed man. I dont believe he thinks he did anything wrong, or sees anything morally wrong with dog fighting in general.
He paid the price for being caught, but getting caught has not reformed him, as it apparently has the LW.
Do you really believe that Vick is a changed man?
<quoted text>
What's in his heart is not a concern of mine. The guy in the letter might not think he did anything wrong either. You have no idea eitehr way. What I am concerned with is people's actions. That's what we punish people for. Both committed crimes and were punished for their ACTIONS. Whether they feel remorse is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the likelihood that they would commit their crimes again. You could be right and Vick has zero remorse for what he did. But is he likely to do it again? I say the chances of that are zero. I don't care if he has a wet dream about dog fighting every night, as long as he does not do it again. THAT is what matters to me.
Sam I Am

Schaumburg, IL

#22 Oct 8, 2012
1. You said yourself he has redeemed himseelf. If you are going to take that away from him, just leave him.

2. Keep going. Quit posting. Tell the wife it is up to him to quit singing with you.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#23 Oct 8, 2012
Why do you think there is zero chance of him being involved again? Maybe he will refuse to run a ring, or host one on his property, but are you saying You dont think he might give a couple of grand to a friend to place a wager for him?
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>What's in his heart is not a concern of mine. The guy in the letter might not think he did anything wrong either. You have no idea eitehr way. What I am concerned with is people's actions. That's what we punish people for. Both committed crimes and were punished for their ACTIONS. Whether they feel remorse is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the likelihood that they would commit their crimes again. You could be right and Vick has zero remorse for what he did. But is he likely to do it again? I say the chances of that are zero. I don't care if he has a wet dream about dog fighting every night, as long as he does not do it again. THAT is what matters to me.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#24 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
I do not apply it to Vick because I dont believe he is a changed man. I dont believe he thinks he did anything wrong, or sees anything morally wrong with dog fighting in general.
He paid the price for being caught, but getting caught has not reformed him, as it apparently has the LW.
Do you really believe that Vick is a changed man?
<quoted text>
Another thought came to mind on this matter. At this point, you are concerned with how he feels on the matter. Whether or not he believes in his heart that what he did was wrong. I have people I work with, who, while not involved in any dog fighting ring themselves, have the same opinion: "its just a dog". People who don't have any emotional attachment to animals and feel like one dies, go buy another just like you would go buy a new table if the one you have falls apart. People who were appalled that he could be sentenced 2 years in jail for that. So do these folks need to be shunned from society and prevented from earning a living the way you have suggested should be the case for Vick? They did not commit the crime he did(for which he was punished), but they have the same mentality toward animals in general.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#25 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
Why do you think there is zero chance of him being involved again? Maybe he will refuse to run a ring, or host one on his property, but are you saying You dont think he might give a couple of grand to a friend to place a wager for him?
<quoted text>
Why do I think that? Because he lost everything the first go round. He's getting a second chance(and as I mentioned the other day, from what I recently read, since he's been back, I think 29 out of 31 million has gone to creditors.) Would YOU go back to the well on something that sent you to jail and put you in the poorhouse? A few grand on betting? Really? I don't see him setting foot within a mile of any dog fighting. You think there would be some satisfaction for making an anonymous bet on a fight he can't watch? Sorry. I just don't see it. I don't think there's any chance of him having anything do do with dog fighting ever again after losing his entire fortune. First go round, he had no idea that getting caught would cost so much. I don't see how you think anything would entice him to go for a second round.
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

#26 Oct 8, 2012
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
L1: I don't see why your adult children need to know. It's none of their business.
L2: 1. Cut back on the commenting on someone's FB page. 2. Tell her to eff off and if she has a problem, she can talk to her husband.
THIS.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#27 Oct 8, 2012
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Why do I think that? Because he lost everything the first go round. He's getting a second chance(and as I mentioned the other day, from what I recently read, since he's been back, I think 29 out of 31 million has gone to creditors.) Would YOU go back to the well on something that sent you to jail and put you in the poorhouse? A few grand on betting? Really? I don't see him setting foot within a mile of any dog fighting. You think there would be some satisfaction for making an anonymous bet on a fight he can't watch? Sorry. I just don't see it. I don't think there's any chance of him having anything do do with dog fighting ever again after losing his entire fortune. First go round, he had no idea that getting caught would cost so much. I don't see how you think anything would entice him to go for a second round.
Excellent argument.
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

#28 Oct 8, 2012
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
P.S. I'm SO not a fan of karaoke. Sober? That would make me wanting karaoke to be illegal.
Hahaha! I have done karaoke a few times. I'm a good singer and it can be fun... but... you have to listen to a whole bunch of people who are truly awful singers. There's no way I could do this on a regular basis.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#29 Oct 8, 2012
I never said he should be prevented from earning a living. I only said that I would not want my team to hire him. He found a job, good for him.

You know people who think its ok to have 2 dogs tear each other to peices for entertainment?

Its one thing to view a dogs death as trivial, but its entirely another to cause that death, to shoot the dog in cold blood because it lost a fight, or was not developing enough of a killer instinct.

Do your friends also support the idea of trainer dogs? The ones muzzled and ripped apart by the fighter dog, so it can hone its skills?

Dogs can be food, tools or pets, not disposable products for recreation that are brutalized by their owners, other animals and then clubbed or shot when they no longer turn a profit.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Another thought came to mind on this matter. At this point, you are concerned with how he feels on the matter. Whether or not he believes in his heart that what he did was wrong. I have people I work with, who, while not involved in any dog fighting ring themselves, have the same opinion: "its just a dog". People who don't have any emotional attachment to animals and feel like one dies, go buy another just like you would go buy a new table if the one you have falls apart. People who were appalled that he could be sentenced 2 years in jail for that. So do these folks need to be shunned from society and prevented from earning a living the way you have suggested should be the case for Vick? They did not commit the crime he did(for which he was punished), but they have the same mentality toward animals in general.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#30 Oct 8, 2012
Why are there so many repeat offenders of any type? Bank robbers, thiefs, pyramid schemes.... Because they dont think what they are doing is necessarily wrong, and they are sure they wont get caught.

If you say that vick is not redeemed, then he is no different that any other person who was caught and did their time, but never realized the inherent "Wrongness" of their actions.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> I don't see how you think anything would entice him to go for a second round.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#31 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
You know people who think its ok to have 2 dogs tear each other to peices for entertainment?
I know people who don't think its such a big deal that it warranted a 2 year prison sentence. I am not one of them. I'm ok with that. But aside from the co-workers, I remember reading message boards connected to news stories at the time and that position well represented. There are a lot of people who did not see it as a crime worthy of so much jail time.

I also know a girl who is so into this that she follows the progrss of the "Vicktory" dogs as they are being called. I guess some organization rescued the survivors and has been rehabning and caring for them since they were taken away. She posts stuff to facebook about them every now and then. I think that is odd. Some of the stories she's posted details how some of hte dogs are so skittish that they will never be good pets and require so much more care. I look at that and compare it to the 1,000's of dogs euthanized at the pound every year and wonder, wouldn't the money spent on the Vick dogs be better spent caring for unclaimed pound dogs that have a better future and no issues?

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#32 Oct 8, 2012
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>I know people who don't think its such a big deal that it warranted a 2 year prison sentence. I am not one of them. I'm ok with that. But aside from the co-workers, I remember reading message boards connected to news stories at the time and that position well represented. There are a lot of people who did not see it as a crime worthy of so much jail time.
I also know a girl who is so into this that she follows the progrss of the "Vicktory" dogs as they are being called. I guess some organization rescued the survivors and has been rehabning and caring for them since they were taken away. She posts stuff to facebook about them every now and then. I think that is odd. Some of the stories she's posted details how some of hte dogs are so skittish that they will never be good pets and require so much more care. I look at that and compare it to the 1,000's of dogs euthanized at the pound every year and wonder, wouldn't the money spent on the Vick dogs be better spent caring for unclaimed pound dogs that have a better future and no issues?
This I agree with. We need to stop trying to save everything. More suffer b/c of the inability to see this as a more logical route.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#33 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
Why are there so many repeat offenders of any type? Bank robbers, thiefs, pyramid schemes....
Those people don't have a legitimate way to earn a fortune. They have nothing and they want the easy way to something. Quite differnt from someone who got his fortune taken away because of his past time. That's what dog fighting was to him. He might have made some beer money from it, but it was not his source of income. Not when he had truckloads rolling in thru the NFL and endorsements.
RACE wrote:
Because they dont think what they are doing is necessarily wrong, and they are sure they wont get caught.
Uh....no. Theives and bank robbers know full well it is wrong, but they don't care.

I think the fundamental differnence between you and me on this issue is you want people to BE good. I just want them to behave.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#34 Oct 8, 2012
What about vick? Does he know it was wrong? Does he care?
Mister Tonka wrote:
Uh....no. Theives and bank robbers know full well it is wrong, but they don't care.
I think the fundamental differnence between you and me on this issue is you want people to BE good. I just want them to behave.
When it comes to dog fights, what is the difference between "Being good" and "Behaving"

To me the former implies you stop the fights, but the latter means dont spill your beer on other people.

I think our fundamental disagreement is that I find dog fighting a reprehensible activity, and I have absolutely no respect for anyone who engages it it. I also think that the face of the NFL is besmirched with him in the league. I dont care about his jail time, and have no opinion on whether it was sufficient for his crime. People do more time for less vicious activities.

I dont think he should be "banned" from the NFL, I just dont think any team should hire him. There is a difference, and a team did hire him, and while I dont like it, I respect their right to lose any money that I might have given them.

By your statements that guy who was arrested for raping those kids should be welcomed back into the NFL after his time is served. After all he did his time and lost lots of money too.

What if vick was arrested for that instead of gross animal cruelty?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#35 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
When it comes to dog fights, what is the difference between "Being good" and "Behaving"
This goes back to knowing what's in a person's heart. You don't think he feels like what he did was wrong. You want him to feel remorse and feel like what he did was wrong. ie: be good.

I don't care what he thinks in his head. I only care what that he does not do it again. ie: behave.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#36 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
What about vick? Does he know it was wrong? Does he care?
<quoted text>
When it comes to dog fights, what is the difference between "Being good" and "Behaving"
To me the former implies you stop the fights, but the latter means dont spill your beer on other people.
I think our fundamental disagreement is that I find dog fighting a reprehensible activity, and I have absolutely no respect for anyone who engages it it. I also think that the face of the NFL is besmirched with him in the league. I dont care about his jail time, and have no opinion on whether it was sufficient for his crime. People do more time for less vicious activities.
I dont think he should be "banned" from the NFL, I just dont think any team should hire him. There is a difference, and a team did hire him, and while I dont like it, I respect their right to lose any money that I might have given them.
By your statements that guy who was arrested for raping those kids should be welcomed back into the NFL after his time is served. After all he did his time and lost lots of money too.
What if vick was arrested for that instead of gross animal cruelty?
I believe some people can contain their own emotions and only look to the crime and/or sentence. You can't do anything about someone's feelings but you can do something about someone's actions.

I also believe the NFL will do what will help their bottom dollar in the long run and that's where their interest lies.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#37 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
What if vick was arrested for that instead of gross animal cruelty?
He'd still be in jail and would not be out in time for any playoffs. The reality is, I don't think ANYONE is arguing over how heinious a crime Sandusky committed. I think ther eis a clear consensus that not only were his actions wrong, but I don't think anyone is arguing that dying in jail is too harsh for him, whereas in the Vick case, ther is no clear cut collective opinion over how heinious a crime it was. I think most people agree a crime was committed, but opinions vary widely as to how bad his crime was andwhether hew was punished by the law too much or not enough.
ma delun

Europe

#38 Oct 8, 2012
I am looking for a partner in a business transaction if you are interested reply me through my personal email (ma.delun7252@hotmail.com)
Thanks
Ma Delun

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#39 Oct 8, 2012
RACE wrote:
I think our fundamental disagreement is that I find dog fighting a reprehensible activity
I agree with this, however, I will readily admit that the thought of dogfighting does not stir quite the same emotions in me as it does in you.

Take Vick out of it. Go back to before his name was synonymous with dog fighting. If I was perusing the paper and saw a headline about some dog fighting ring that got busted the night before, I doubt the story would raise my interest much. There would be little if any emotional response to the headline. Now if hte next story was a headline about some child molester getting busted, I'm certain my reaction would be that he should burn. I have more of an emotional reaction when I read about a cop shooting the family dog un-necessarily (as I have seen multiple times) than I do about the dog fighting stories.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#40 Oct 8, 2012
ma delun wrote:
I am looking for a partner in a business transaction if you are interested reply me through my personal email (ma.delun7252@hotmail.com)
Thanks
Ma Delun
I'm very interested and have a lot of money saved up for investing. Tell me where I should send the check.

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