Chicago gun violence: Where's the outrage?

[David]

Gun violence: Where's the outrage?(July 10, 2009)
The question should be why would there be outrage?
Has the author never hear the term reaping what is sown?
The article,“gun violence: where's the outrage?" Gives lip service to what community leaders erroneously referred to as the root causes of urban slaughter. If you insist on having a root cause of urban slaughter I suggest lack of parental responsibility has to be the root cause! Just last week while visiting the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, I observed two children probably between the ages of four and seven posing for pictures flashing gang symbols from the penguin play area. The adults escorting these children were laughing, acting like the behavior was cute, and taking pictures. Now I submit that when these children are being gunned down, or gunning someone else down 5-10 years from now, those allegedly responsible adults I observed that day in the museum will be completely at fault. Of course they will undoubtedly be standing in front of the news cameras crying about how their “good boy” is an innocent victim. Don’t get me wrong, the loss of the life a child is a tragedy, but they are victims of poor parenting, and a culture that values extreme violence in its entertainment. When they laugh while their little children start to imitate gangs they are teaching the children that gang activity is funny, appropriate, and acceptable. When the children learn what the parents taught them and join gangs the parents have only themselves to blame!
The reasoning in the article is so poor as to be laughable, if it weren’t such a tragedy!
I ask you if automatic weapons are illegal how come so many gangs have automatic weapons? What difference will restrictions on gun ownership make?
I challenge the author of the article or anyone else to demonstrate in any meaningful way how gun control laws would have any impact on what happens among gangs.
The guns being used are illegal, the activities be engaged in are illegal, and many of the people in possession of weapons in gangs are not legally old enough to own a firearm of any kind. If none of the hundreds of laws that relate to these issues have any impact on the gangs, why would any new laws have any impact on the gangs?
The author asks why aren't the residents of Barrington, Winnetka, Wheaton and Lincoln Park linking arms with residents in Inglewood, South Austin, and Lawndale? Well maybe it's because they are busy disciplining their children, holding them accountable, and monitoring their entertainment to be sure it is appropriate. They may be busy punishing their children for violent behavior. They may be busy talking to police, giving them details about crimes that they observed in their community so that the perpetrators can be apprehended and brought to justice. Activities that seem to be absent in the troubled communities and among so called community leaders!
If the author insists on pointing fingers and placing blame, then point at those at fault! Don’t blame politicians for not passing more laws that don’t work. Work with the parents and children to help them learn that they are responsible for their own actions. Help them learn simple principles like cause and effect, and help them break the cycle so that the children have a hope for a future. Lawndale Community Church is one good example of making a real difference instead of calling for totally worthless legislation. www.lawndalechurch.org

[John Birch]

This guy is a lawyer? I hope the troops, with use of lethal force, are deployed in his neighborhood. I want his neighborhood on lock down. No one in our out. No vehicles allowed. Random searches of homes. We will turn Mr. Skoning's neighborhood into a place so safe the troops will shoot you dead if you fail to obey. The price of security is only the loss of a little liberty Mr. Skoning. You won't mind. Really.

[Truthsayer]

The legislation that we have continually added to obviously hasn't worked. Perhaps if there were laws that permitted qualified citizens to possess and carry guns the bad guys would not know who was armed and who was not. That would make violence by the bad guys a very risky proposition. I don't need to carry a gun if the laws allow anyone to carry, then it could be anyone. Everyone becomes much more polite. Insanity = doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Let's face it - new laws only affect those who obey the law.

[John - Chicago]

There are two definitions of insanity.

The first is the one you stated ("Insanity = doing the same thing and expecting a different result.")

The second is: allowing every redneck wannabe vigilante in this country to carry a concealed weapon.

[Ossifer]

Grandblvd03 wrote:

Are you serious? Look, I'm a liberal and I am deeply concerned about Chicago's poor crime-ridden neighborhoods. But if you think that the opinions or input of any white person, particularly from one of the wealthy suburbs will be welcomed by the residents of these neighborhoods, you are out of your mind. Don't believe me? Ask them.
The drug and violence problems must be solved by the residents in those communities. Specifically, they need to start trusting the cops and calling the cops on their neighbors. This isn't a message they want to hear, so I and many of us have quit saying it.

The drug and violence problem is so ingrained in the psyche in these neighborhoods. The residents there have been there for generations, so those selling the drugs, fighting, shooting, robbing and so on are committed by fathers, brothers, "play cousins" and so on. That is a primary reason why residents are so reluctant to come foreward-because they will be selling out thier own kinfolk.
There are enough laws in the books already-anyone can look up the Illinois Criminal Codes (720ILCS.....) and see for themselves. However, when the police do make quality arrests, the Arresting Officers, State's Attorneys, Public Defenders and Judges KNOW that nothing is going to happen to the arrestee (usually 6 months probation) because there is nowhere to put them, so they are released back to their neighborhoods to continue the cycle of violence.

[DonP]

John - Chicago wrote:

There are two definitions of insanity.
The first is the one you stated ("Insanity = doing the same thing and expecting a different result.")
The second is: allowing every redneck wannabe vigilante in this country to carry a concealed weapon.

Funny, I read this whole thread and I didn't see anyone suggesting that.

But 48 other states allow people that are over 21, have passed an FBI background check and taken the required training to carry a concealed weapon.

Have you heard about a lot of shoot em ups in grocery stores in Indiana? Maybe shots fired over parking spaces in Michigan or Minnesota?

Or are you just someone that, out of total ignorance for any facts or data, automatically considers anyone that owns a gun or wants the right to concealed carry a "redneck"?

Feel free to show us how safe you are in the gun free Utopia of Chicago. Take a stroll through Chatham or Englewood on a lovely Summer evening. Let us all know how that works out for you, or have your estate let us know.

On the other hand, your mayor is doing such a lousy job of keeping the peace, maybe handing out full-auto weapons to honest citizens isn't such a bad idea. They couldn't kill more people than your mayor is allowing the gangs to.

[yea ok]

Fearful of offending Constituints?Pandering to gun rights advocates? How about pandering to the Constitution of the United States? You like to throw around statistics! How about these: 90% of the violent crimes commited in this country are commited by repeat offenders released early or out on parole!!! Thanks to the high priced attorneys these drug dealers can afford!(of which im sure your one)! The big cities cant even afford more police officers due to the amount of law suits filed because these poor criminals have to live in an overcrowded jail. Again by high priced attorneys!! So do what all you phoney's do! Just like jesse jackson! Blame the people in winnetka or when theres a murder in englewood go picket in barrington!! No ,lets blame an inanimate object! No, Mr. Skoning put the blame where it belongs. Right in the neighborhoods where the murders are taking place,by the people in those neighborhoods!! The rest of us aren't buying what your selling anymore! Oh and by the way you can use a refresher on the U.S. Constitution. But then again, sometimes i believe some Chicago lawyers have never read it!

[Black Panther Bobby Rush]

Don't blame Daley, he da man!

[A Rational Thinker]

Chicago, a city where alcohol prohibition was the catalyst for explosive gang growth and violence. Chicago, where the war on drugs is a catalyst for explosive gang growth and violence.

Personally, I'd rather have a crack head getting their fix at a store than on the corner where a kid will be killed by stray gunfire.

Such a simple solution.

[Ozzie Guillen]

A neighborhood sucks for one reason, the people that live in the neighborhood suck. Section 8 will eventually move the scumbags to Kankakee, Elgin & Aurora. Then, the good people can return to Chicago and live in peace.

[Ozzie Guillen]

Neighborhoods don't suck, the people who live there suck. Englewood is what the residents make it. Stop snitchin'!

[Mav]

John - Chicago wrote:

There are two definitions of insanity.
The second is: allowing every redneck wannabe vigilante in this country to carry a concealed weapon.

What an ignorant comment, for two reasons;

1. It is a racist statement. But of course it exposes your low IQ.

and

2. You use that stereotypical term to single out people in small towns and rural areas. Yet, it is urban areas that seem to be having the problem controlling gun violence. Everyday we hear about another drive-by shooting in Chicago. You don't hear about this type of gun violence too often outside of major cities. Seems the urban folks are the ones not to trust with firearms.

So thank you for both exposing your racist tendencies and the flaws of residents in big cities.

[SouthSider]

Black Panther Bobby Rush wrote:

Don't blame Daley, he da man!

Daley be de real deal. We likes him in Chicago, and he duz some great job fo' everyone in de city. Slap mah fro! The dude has pwoa' and uses it sheeit t'keep Chicago adrivin' city. Slap mah fro! Daley gots'ta his faults, but he makes down fo' in his hard wo'k, honesty, and integirty. Slap mah fro! Here's wishin' Daley baaaad luck in gittin' de Olympics.

[toni]

section 8ers don't care ...they are lazy and woud rather blame a cop than place blame on themselves..did you notice where a section 8 person lives the area crime increases..

[Prior Resident]

A bit of pre-qualification...I have served in both the military and in law enforcement...5 and 11 years respectively.

Good Lord...wake up people. Is there REALLY anyone naive enough to believe that making guns illegal will solve this problem? Oh...I forgot...they are already illegal in the city limits. News flash for you all...criminals DO NOT obey the law. That is why they are criminals! Obviously the rocket scientist who decided that making firearms illegal in the city limits has yet to figure out that it does not work!

Pandering to those that believe in the 2nd Amendment? Are you nuts? It is a part of the constitution of this country. Let's look at other countries where firearms were totally outlawed. The UK...violent crime is at record highs...the English Police, for the first time in several centuries now carry firearms routinely. The Aussie's - Homicide up 300% in some of their states...Armed Robbery up nearly 50% nationwide since the ban on weapons. Folks...outlawing firearms DOES NOT WORK. Sure..in a perfect world if someone had the power to magically make every gun on the face of the earth disappear you might be on to something...but let's get real here folks...that isn't going to happen...ever. It isn't that hard to make one if need be...and the fact is that there are billions of firearms worldwide. Making them "illegal" is nothing more than an emotional reaction, typical of anti-gun rights types, that is nothing better than entertaining a fantasy.

I remember distinctly when Florida changed their laws to "Shall Issue" for anyone applying for a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The anti's nearly had a heart attack and complained that the "streets would run red with blood." Where are your facts? The fact is that nearly overnight violent crime dropped nearly 30%. Why do you think that now there are only a very small minority of states left that will not issue weapons permits on a "shall issue basis?" Because it works...when the criminals don't know who is armed...but know that law abiding citizens, unwilling to be a victim, now could be armed...they back off.

You want to lower the crime rate...then put a program in place where law-abiding citizens can own and keep weapons. Criminals are bad...but not stupid. If you look at where they target these days...and you want make judgements based on data and not on emotions...look at the crime rates in "gun-free zones". The highest robbery rate in Atlanta? It happens to be around the Georgia Tech Campus...where by law guns are not allowed. Unfortunately the entire City of Chicago is a gun-free zone. And you wonder why the criminals are running amok? Wake up.

Chicago...I was never in my life so happy to leave a place! Thank God I moved to a state where I can legally carry a firearm. God forbid I ever have to use it...but at least I have the option available should my or one of my loved ones lives are in immediate danger.

[RJF]

Gunslinging should be made legal in Chicago just long enough so we can meet all the corrupt people who run this city at high noon. That would include all the judges and lawyers.

However, the best kept secret is a company called Forest City Enterprises. They're not a household name but they are really the ones in charge of the City of Chicago. As a former resident of one of their properties I found this out the hard way. They have the whole city bought off, from the mayor's office on down to the police department.

For a little background on Forest City, check out this web page.

http://cuaccforestcitypixetc.com/

[OUTRAGE]

I'm OUTRAGED!

GRRRRRRR!

"Outrage" is an irrational response only exercised by those who lack the ability to keep their emotions in check and who are overburdened by unaddressed anger issues.

[Logic]

Prior Resident wrote:

A bit of pre-qualification...I have served in both the military and in law enforcement...5 and 11 years respectively.
Pandering to those that believe in the 2nd Amendment? Are you nuts? It is a part of the constitution of this country. Let's look at other countries where firearms were totally outlawed. The UK...violent crime is at record highs...the English Police, for the first time in several centuries now carry firearms routinely. The Aussie's - Homicide up 300% in some of their states...Armed Robbery up nearly 50% nationwide since the ban on weapons. Folks...outlawing firearms DOES NOT WORK.
I remember distinctly when Florida changed their laws to "Shall Issue" for anyone applying for a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The anti's nearly had a heart attack and complained that the "streets would run red with blood." Where are your facts? The fact is that nearly overnight violent crime dropped nearly 30%. Why do you think that now there are only a very small minority of states left that will not issue weapons permits on a "shall issue basis?" Because it works...when the criminals don't know who is armed...but know that law abiding citizens, unwilling to be a victim, now could be armed...they back off.
You want to lower the crime rate...then put a program in place where law-abiding citizens can own and keep weapons. Criminals are bad...but not stupid. If you look at where they target these days...and you want make judgements based on data and not on emotions...look at the crime rates in "gun-free zones". The highest robbery rate in Atlanta? It happens to be around the Georgia Tech Campus...where by law guns are not allowed. Unfortunately the entire City of Chicago is a gun-free zone. And you wonder why the criminals are running amok? Wake up.
Chicago...I was never in my life so happy to leave a place! Thank God I moved to a state where I can legally carry a firearm. God forbid I ever have to use it...but at least I have the option available should my or one of my loved ones lives are in immediate danger.

I thought that the Second Amendment states that the right to bear arms is so the "well-regulated militia" can protect our rights against an overzealous government. However, your comments regarding your fellow citizens would seem to contradict the concept that the "well-regulated militia" is actually the citizens of this country, since no "well-regulated militia's" members would be fearful of one another.

Imagine what a disaster our military would be if the soldiers were as, if not more, afraid of their fellow soldiers as they were the enemy.

Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that the "well-regulated militia" referenced in the Second Amendment applies to the citizenry at large when you profess your hysterical fear of other members of the population. It contradicts any notion of "well-regulated" on its face.

If you're willing to admit that the "well-regulated militia" is clearly not the general citizenry of the United States, I'll give you your CCW, and similar, arguments. However, if you admit that your statements of fear of your neighbors are merely a straw man to make your case, I'll give you the "well-regulated militia" referring to the public at large argument. I can't, however, logically give you both.

By the way, guns aren't banned in Australia. Not only do you lack logical consistency, you lack a respect for facts. And I love how you criticize others for using "fear" to further their cause, and then go on a tirade using nothing but irrational fear to support your cause. Again, it's clear logical consistency is not one of your strong suits.

[D from G]

These are the words of a crazy person.

Maybe the author is a fan of the martial law and the military controlled streets (it works so well in other parts of the world), however I think 90% of the country will disagree.

[ProGunGuyfromGeo rgia]

Yeah that gun ban is working out really well isn't it?

Arm the good guys and see how fast the crime rate drops.