Dear Amy 11-14-09

[Cass]

LW2 - I don't see what exactly the friend did wrong that makes LW feel betrayed. When I was finishing up my degree, there were a dozen other people in my department doing the same. The jobs in our field are limited, and a lot of us for the same open positions. Yes, we competed with each other to a degree, but that did not prevent us from staying friends. In each case, the best candidate for the position got the job. Some got better jobs than others. One woman got a job I really wanted to have, but she had better qualifications for it. I never felt bitter. That's just life.

[Cass]

Uh, "went for the same positions."

[CrazyMaddy]

I Like Tonka wrote:

<quoted text>
Why? Their talking about themselves, not other people behind their back. Why do you think they should not be free to tell their story at the inlaws? How did you determine it to be a "family only" private discussion. Its the story of how they met and began dating.

The LW is the hostess and she doesn't want her brother and his gf to go into the whole song and dance about his alcoholism and how her friends warned her not to date him, etc.. It's an inspiring story, but the devil is in the details. Is the gf the type that tends to go on and on about details that should not be shared? Is this topic relevant to the various conversations at the table? Has the gf even met some of her bf's extended family and their in-laws before? It appears the hostess is not comfortable with the subject-whatever the reason. IMO,they should respect her wishes if she asks them not to discuss it.

[cheluzal]

Andie J wrote:

<quoted text>
He's always got my back. He's even stood up to his parents when they were rude to me.

Go him!
I believe in wanting someone who treats his mom/sister right, bleh bleh...but when you're in a relationship, especially a marriage, that spouse better come before anyone!

[Andie J]

CrazyMaddy wrote:

<quoted text>
The LW is the hostess and she doesn't want her brother and his gf to go into the whole song and dance about his alcoholism and how her friends warned her not to date him, etc.. It's an inspiring story, but the devil is in the details. Is the gf the type that tends to go on and on about details that should not be shared? Is this topic relevant to the various conversations at the table? Has the gf even met some of her bf's extended family and their in-laws before? It appears the hostess is not comfortable with the subject-whatever the reason. IMO,they should respect her wishes if she asks them not to discuss it.

I agree. In this age of Oprahisms, people are all too willing to spill their guts. It's OK on a forum like this, as most of us don't personally know each other. But sharing that kind of detail over Thanksgiving dinner is just TMI. I mean, is anything private anymore?

[Andie J]

cheluzal wrote:

<quoted text>
Go him!
I believe in wanting someone who treats his mom/sister right, bleh bleh...but when you're in a relationship, especially a marriage, that spouse better come before anyone!

You've got that right. When I married my ex, I made sure the minister put in the words "And man shall leave his father's house and cleave unto his wife" for just that very reason. Until the day I moved out, his mother considered me the other woman. And he allowed it to happen. Spineless Mama's boy biker.

[Pippa]

1: Regardless of what the lw says, I don't think the lw is concerned about her brother's embarrassment; she is concerned about her own. Her signing herself "Shamefaced Sister" says it all. She doesn't want to air her family's dirty laundry in front of her daughter's in-laws. Of course this is her brother's gf and he's the one who should deal with her if her remarks bother him. Perhaps, the lw has been doing too much to "protect" him from his mistakes. She should let him deal with his own problems. But turning the conversation is not a bad idea.

2: The "friend" should have told the lw that he was looking for a job with the same company - whether he thought it wasn't the same job or not. But it isn't the friend's fault that the lw didn't get the job unless he actually told the interviewer harmful things about the lw. We don't know when the friend had applied for the job. Was it before or after the lw had told him about his first interview? He may have actually applied for the job only after hearing about it from the lw and then picked the lw's brain for information that would help him for his own interview. We don't know. The lw is jealous of course. I agree with Jess that he should apply for his friend's old job. And perhaps he should stop telling people details about his job search.

3: Wow, someone changed Amy's mind. Good for them. And yes, I also agree with the lw.

[Pippa]

Im Me wrote:

Interesting story. My friend was eating dinner with his family. When they left his dad didn't leave a tip. They were outside the building, on the way to the car, and the guy inside started running after them. When he caught up he asked where his tip was, friend's dad gave him a tip after that guy chased him down and demanded one. I know his dad should have tipped, but totally wrong for that worker to come out like that with his hand out.

I have to agree with you. Perhaps the dad should have told him the absence of tip was a message?(I don't give tips if there's a real problem with the service and I'd have no problem saying this to the server if he followed me outside to demand one.) I can see someone being distracted and forgetting about the tip (I'm willing to give anyone a benefit of a doubt unless I know for sure it's on purpose). I bet the server was just out of patience with folks who demand all kinds of service without leaving a tip. Or maybe the dad had been there before and rarely left a tip and this guy decided he wasn't going to put up with it again. If I were the dad, I'd either not go to that particular restaurant again (out of embarrassment) or make sure to leave a really good tip the next time.

[I Like Tonka]

CrazyMaddy wrote:

<quoted text>
The LW is the hostess and she doesn't want her brother and his gf to go into the whole song and dance about his alcoholism and how her friends warned her not to date him, etc.. It's an inspiring story, but the devil is in the details. Is the gf the type that tends to go on and on about details that should not be shared? Is this topic relevant to the various conversations at the table? Has the gf even met some of her bf's extended family and their in-laws before? It appears the hostess is not comfortable with the subject-whatever the reason. IMO,they should respect her wishes if she asks them not to discuss it.

She's not the hostess. They're going to LW's daughter's place. And I've never heard of someone setting rules for what can and can't be discussed except for celebrities going on talk shows. As far as her asking them not to discuss it, her problem is she's afraid to bring it up at all. SHE's ashamed of her brother's story. Sorry, but I thing that's her problem.

[cheluzal]

Andie J wrote:

<quoted text>
You've got that right. When I married my ex, I made sure the minister put in the words "And man shall leave his father's house and cleave unto his wife" for just that very reason. Until the day I moved out, his mother considered me the other woman. And he allowed it to happen. Spineless Mama's boy biker.

I quote "leave and cleave" all the time but most people don't know what I mean.
Moms who raise kids like this annoy me. My mom did it with my brother, and while my SIL was cool with it, I will not be, so I watch for that early on in the relationship.

[Im Me]

Pippa wrote:

<quoted text>
I have to agree with you. Perhaps the dad should have told him the absence of tip was a message?(I don't give tips if there's a real problem with the service and I'd have no problem saying this to the server if he followed me outside to demand one.) I can see someone being distracted and forgetting about the tip (I'm willing to give anyone a benefit of a doubt unless I know for sure it's on purpose). I bet the server was just out of patience with folks who demand all kinds of service without leaving a tip. Or maybe the dad had been there before and rarely left a tip and this guy decided he wasn't going to put up with it again. If I were the dad, I'd either not go to that particular restaurant again (out of embarrassment) or make sure to leave a really good tip the next time.

They were out of state and had never been there before. I am not sure how demanding they are when they go out to eat, so I can't say for sure if the guy was mad at them for all he did and getting no tip. I could not imagine getting chased down for one, the mental image of that scenario, right or wrong on either of their parts, still makes me laugh.

[CrazyMaddy]

I Like Tonka wrote:

<quoted text>
She's not the hostess. They're going to LW's daughter's place. And I've never heard of someone setting rules for what can and can't be discussed except for celebrities going on talk shows. As far as her asking them not to discuss it, her problem is she's afraid to bring it up at all. SHE's ashamed of her brother's story. Sorry, but I thing that's her problem.

You're right. She's not the hostess. Still.. If I were going to a daughters house for Thanksgiving, and the other guests were my SIL's family and my brother and his girlfriend were invited and they probably don't even know the gf and she feels compelled to share the story of her bf's aloholism and go into their history together and the naysayers who told her not to date him, yada, yada, yada..you would bet I would be embarrassed. In my opinion, it just isn't necessary to share that information with relatives of your bf's niece's in-laws on Thanksgiving. Haven't you ever had to listen to someone you hardly know share information that should be kept personal and which makes you uncomfortable or you just aren't interested in? What's wrong with wanting to put your best foot forward when in someone's else's home and keep the conversation light and amusing? Let's just agree to disagree on what is proper conversation at a holiday dinner.

Is there a prize for the longest run on sentence in the history of topix??

[I Like Tonka]

Pippa wrote:

1: Regardless of what the lw says, I don't think the lw is concerned about her brother's embarrassment; she is concerned about her own. Her signing herself "Shamefaced Sister" says it all. She doesn't want to air her family's dirty laundry in front of her daughter's in-laws. Of course this is her brother's gf and he's the one who should deal with her if her remarks bother him. Perhaps, the lw has been doing too much to "protect" him from his mistakes. She should let him deal with his own problems. But turning the conversation is not a bad idea.

Ditto

[I Like Tonka]

CrazyMaddy wrote:

you would bet I would be embarrassed.

This is why I disagree with you. Why would YOU be embarrassed? The story is not about you. I am ok with not thinking the story is interesting(but I don't thnk that's the LW's reason at all. I'm sure its quite a compelling story). She's ashamed of her brother's past. She's one of those "he's a reflection on me" type people and that is why she's ashamed. I don't buy that sentiment. Your children might be a reflection on you and your parenting skills, but other than that, I flush that "reflection on me" business down the toilet. Her brother is not a reflection on her and she has nothing to be ashamed of. If anyone does, its him(and he has apparently gotten past it).

[Aisle Sitter]

Im Me wrote:

Interesting story. My friend was eating dinner with his family. When they left his dad didn't leave a tip. They were outside the building, on the way to the car, and the guy inside started running after them. When he caught up he asked where his tip was, friend's dad gave him a tip after that guy chased him down and demanded one. I know his dad should have tipped, but totally wrong for that worker to come out like that with his hand out.

Funny you share this story... just last week we were talking about a restaurant that was a fixture in Chicago that closed in the last couple of years. My mom went there with some of her female friends not too long after the restaurant started serving women (at all, not just "unaccompanied" women). The service was beyond horrid: it was off-peak and their waiter was watching paint dry instead of attending to them. He would go out of his way to not look at them and would take the long way around his section to "miss" their table. She too was chased after not leaving a tip. She flipped a nickel at him, turned and walked out.

Stuffy servers were part of the institution, but this was more than a little extreme...

[CrazyMaddy]

I Like Tonka wrote:

<quoted text> This is why I disagree with you. Why would YOU be embarrassed? The story is not about you.

sigh. You are right, Tonka. I should not be embarrassed. My brother should not be embarrassed. The hosts should not be embarrassed. Their guests should not be embarrassed. The gf should continue to share their DETAILED past whenever she finds a captive audience. You have convinced me. Really, you have. I wonder what today's letters will bring?

[Terri at home]

CrazyMaddy wrote:

<quoted text>
sigh. You are right, Tonka. I should not be embarrassed. My brother should not be embarrassed. The hosts should not be embarrassed. Their guests should not be embarrassed. The gf should continue to share their DETAILED past whenever she finds a captive audience. You have convinced me. Really, you have. I wonder what today's letters will bring?

I'd be embarrassed and concerned for him if I cared about him. I'd be concerned he was trying to get his strength back and this women was knocking him down. I'd also realize I couldn't control that woman's mouth. Feelings aren't cut and dried. Whether or not you SHOULD feel something doesn't mean you do or do not.

[Pixx]

Amy at her next family dinner: "Mmm, these mashed potatoes are so creamy!"

At least five people at the table: "THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!"

[pellen]

Aisle Sitter wrote:

<quoted text>
Funny you share this story... just last week we were talking about a restaurant that was a fixture in Chicago that closed in the last couple of years. My mom went there with some of her female friends not too long after the restaurant started serving women (at all, not just "unaccompanied" women). The service was beyond horrid: it was off-peak and their waiter was watching paint dry instead of attending to them. He would go out of his way to not look at them and would take the long way around his section to "miss" their table. She too was chased after not leaving a tip. She flipped a nickel at him, turned and walked out.
Stuffy servers were part of the institution, but this was more than a little extreme...

Berghoff?

[j_m_w]

Pixx wrote:

Amy at her next family dinner: "Mmm, these mashed potatoes are so creamy!"
At least five people at the table: "THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!"

Ha! I was thinking of writing a scene for that line but by the time I got through all the comments (earlier today), I forgot.