Why Sam Wants to Ban Guns

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#157 May 6, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Then "Not Everyone" needs to brush up on the 2nd Amendment. Owning a firearm IS a right. Now whether you want to follow that right is up to you, but you recognize my right to bear arms and I will recognize your right not to.
So how do you justify limits on an individual owning, say, a howitzer or a shoulder mounted surface to air missle launcher?

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#158 May 6, 2013
Please provide a like to a weapon without a safety (I may have misspoke, I was alluding to handgun not shot guns.)
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Trigger guards, yes, safety switches, no.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#159 May 6, 2013
How about we stay on topic here. Your question is nonsense. In a truly free society there would be no ban on them.
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>So how do you justify limits on an individual owning, say, a howitzer or a shoulder mounted surface to air missle launcher?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#161 May 6, 2013
PEllen wrote:
So how do you justify limits on an individual owning, say, a howitzer or a shoulder mounted surface to air missle launcher?
How do you justify asking nonsensical and ridiculous questions?

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#162 May 6, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
You said the people who were MOST dangerous were people who OWNED weapons. THAT'S what you said. I am not spinning it or taking it out of context. Your exact words.
<quoted text>
You said TOO MANY crimes were committed by "first time" offenders. I guess that's relative, but MANY MORE crimes are committed by veteran criminals.
<quoted text>
Frankly, I'm not quiet sure WHAT your point was, that's why I was asking. You just went on and on about people driving over the speed limit. What WAS your point, btw?
1 - No, what I said was in context to needing a license for concealed carry, and in that context, legal gun owners who have no training with their weapon are the most dangerous people - among *legal* gun owners.

2 - Right, it's a question of relativity. I'm not *wrong* about what I asserted - which is that *too many* times it's a first time offender. Sure, there's always got to be somebody's first time, but I strongly believe that lack of education and training plays in to many of the accidental shootings which is what I am most concerned with preventing.

3 - You totally have me confused with someone else here. I think I may have mentioned speeding once, and even that one I'm not sure on.

My point remains what it was before. I'm not concerned with preventing shooting sprees because I think that's a useless thing to try and prevent, and at the point that somebody picks up a gun is far too late if anything is going to be done. Somebody who truly wants to do damage is going to steal weapons if they can't get them legally, from somebody who legally owns them, or is going to build a bomb. Therefore, shooting sprees are irrelevant. I'm not talking about and never have been talking about shootings sprees.

However, I do believe that if the requirements for purchasing a gun are stricter in terms of what is included in a background check and in terms of needing to show competency with it, then I believe that it will limit the amount of guns available for purchase on the black market. Not eliminate, but I think reducing is a worthwhile goal. This is another reason why I believe in gun registries. If a whole lot of weapons go through a particular person's hands, it's an avenue to shut down some of the pipeline to the people with extensive rap sheets.

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#163 May 6, 2013
RACE wrote:
Anyone who does not believe so is a MORON! That right has been upheld in court. Deal with it or continue to pout, your choice.
<quoted text>
I think the argument can be made that the right to bear *arms* does not necessarily mean *firearms*. fwiw.

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#164 May 6, 2013
@ Race, from somewhere back upthread (sorry, at work, limited time today).

Your point about most drivers being safe drivers - One of the reasons that most drivers are safe drivers is because they have had training and had to pass an exam proving they know how to drive. That's a lot of my point behind thinking that guns fall under the same category. A car with an unexperienced/untrained driver behind the wheel can absolutely be deadly. We work to prevent that from happening, and I think we should do the same with firearms.

To me, I don't see how this interferes with anyone's right, because it's not a question of your access being completely blocked, just an extra step to take in order to exercise your right. This is based on my belief that anybody can learn to shoot straight enough to pass such an exam for licensing, and learn the basics of gun safety and maintenance. I won't swear that as an absolute - but if it's not, here's a question - would you want a gun in the hands of a person who can't pass such an exam and would never be able to? Putting aside the issue of the *right* to it, and just on your own feelings about the risks of such a situation, would you want a gun in such a person's hands?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#165 May 6, 2013
RACE wrote:
Anyone who does not believe so is a MORON! That right has been upheld in court. Deal with it or continue to pout, your choice.
<quoted text>
I'm not pouting. I didn't call you any names. I simply made an opinion and then you seem ragey and very sophomoric.

But it's about guns so perhaps you take it personally, although I cannot fathom why.

I don't feel it is a right but a privilege. I give a rats ass if you think I am a moron because you disagree with my opinion, if others disagree with my opinion, if the government disagrees with my opinion. It is my opinion. I am not changing policy, I am simply stating my opinion.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#166 May 6, 2013
RACE wrote:
Obviously this thread should have been titled Why Toj wants all firearms banned. only 1 post needed. She simply believes nobody has a right to own a weapon. What a simple world she lives in.
I never said I want all firearms band.

Now I understand why Sam fights back the way she does.

This is garbage. I never said it. Point to where I said that.

It shows the very low integrity you possess to post this.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#167 May 6, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
I think the argument can be made that the right to bear *arms* does not necessarily mean *firearms*. fwiw.
O-M-EFFIN-G! Now you're starting to sound like a nut. No, that argument CAN'T be made! The right to bear arms SPECIFICALLY means *firearms.*

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#168 May 6, 2013
Hey, I am with you! I think gun safety should be taught in school. I dont want someone who has no knowledge of a firearm pulling out out when they get robbed, I am sure the bullet will strike an innocent or building.
animaniactoo wrote:
@ Race, from somewhere back upthread (sorry, at work, limited time today).
Your point about most drivers being safe drivers - One of the reasons that most drivers are safe drivers is because they have had training and had to pass an exam proving they know how to drive. That's a lot of my point behind thinking that guns fall under the same category. A car with an unexperienced/untrained driver behind the wheel can absolutely be deadly. We work to prevent that from happening, and I think we should do the same with firearms.
To me, I don't see how this interferes with anyone's right, because it's not a question of your access being completely blocked, just an extra step to take in order to exercise your right. This is based on my belief that anybody can learn to shoot straight enough to pass such an exam for licensing, and learn the basics of gun safety and maintenance. I won't swear that as an absolute - but if it's not, here's a question - would you want a gun in the hands of a person who can't pass such an exam and would never be able to? Putting aside the issue of the *right* to it, and just on your own feelings about the risks of such a situation, would you want a gun in such a person's hands?

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#169 May 6, 2013
If you humans could just get your drinking problem under control you would see a precipitous decline in violence in general.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#170 May 6, 2013
No, I dont think you can. It means what it means and the courts seem to agree with everybody but you as to what it means.
animaniactoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the argument can be made that the right to bear *arms* does not necessarily mean *firearms*. fwiw.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#171 May 6, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said I want all firearms band.
Now I understand why Sam fights back the way she does.
This is garbage. I never said it. Point to where I said that.
It shows the very low integrity you possess to post this.
It's why I gave up too. Those two are dodging and deflecting.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#172 May 6, 2013
Well your opinion is inaccurate to the facts. In fact its not even an opinion, it's a wish, a fantasy with no basis in reality.

And I think the moron comment is also accurate because you are stating something that is simply not true and whether you want to label that statement as an opinion does not give it any more weight.

Nothing personal.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not pouting. I didn't call you any names. I simply made an opinion and then you seem ragey and very sophomoric.
But it's about guns so perhaps you take it personally, although I cannot fathom why.
I don't feel it is a right but a privilege. I give a rats ass if you think I am a moron because you disagree with my opinion, if others disagree with my opinion, if the government disagrees with my opinion. It is my opinion. I am not changing policy, I am simply stating my opinion.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#173 May 6, 2013
post#146...
I know you believe it is your right to own a weapon.

Not everyone believes so.

You are saying I have NO rights to own a weapon. I read that as you want nobody to have a weapon.

I think if you check again, you will find that my integrity is still intact.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said I want all firearms band.
Now I understand why Sam fights back the way she does.
This is garbage. I never said it. Point to where I said that.
It shows the very low integrity you possess to post this.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#174 May 6, 2013
I apologize. when I read you post I totally missed that you were indeed talking about carrying not purchasing.
But I still dont see the logic to the post as it relates to this discussion.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Where?

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#175 May 6, 2013
RACE wrote:
No, I dont think you can. It means what it means and the courts seem to agree with everybody but you as to what it means.
<quoted text>
lol. Not everybody but me! There are others who still believe it could be. It's okay, I'm not invested in it one way or the other, it's just for consideration. Even though it's been legislated, that's not a "final word" in my opinion, because things that have been legislated have been later reversed, even up to the Supreme Court reversing itself on previously considered issues.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#176 May 6, 2013
RACE wrote:
Well your opinion is inaccurate to the facts. In fact its not even an opinion, it's a wish, a fantasy with no basis in reality.
And I think the moron comment is also accurate because you are stating something that is simply not true and whether you want to label that statement as an opinion does not give it any more weight.
Nothing personal.
<quoted text>
It really isn't. Many people, including me, believe that the "armed militia" portion of the right to bear arms is very important. I don't believe you, me, or the ordinary citizen to be part of a militia.

It's really a very common opinion.

Your opinion believing it means everyone is a common opinion and mine is a common opinion.

Here's the difference. I try to be respectful if someone has a different opinion than I do.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#178 May 6, 2013
RACE wrote:
post#146...
I know you believe it is your right to own a weapon.
Not everyone believes so.
You are saying I have NO rights to own a weapon. I read that as you want nobody to have a weapon.
I think if you check again, you will find that my integrity is still intact.
<quoted text>
You very well know I was comparing rights to privilege.

Heh. Maybe you didn't. Giving you too much credit, perhaps. I will try to be more detailed in the future. I would have thought that you would have inferred that I was comparing rights to privileges.

While I appreciate the weak apology you gave I really don't want to discuss this at all anymore. Your not intersted in a discussion, you're interested in shouting your opinions.

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