“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#71 May 5, 2013
PEllen wrote:
My suggestion is to put the onus on the gun manufacturer.
That's like saying Ford is responsible when a drunk driver causes an accident.
PEllen wrote:
1. Every first sale of a gun can only be made to a person who has personally appeared for and passed a training class.
Hails no.
PEllen wrote:
2.Part of the original sales price must include a liability policy to cover, at a minimum medical bills cause by that gun.
Hails no.
PEllen wrote:
3. Every gun must be fired and its ballistics signature kept on record like a fingerprint.
That doesn't sound like that would be very effective or efficient. Who's gonna keep tabs on all that?
PEllen wrote:
4.Every gun owner must maintain insurance and a license and have it updated every specified period of years like license plates-- and it must be done in person not on line.
Insurance, no. You already need a license.
PEllen wrote:
5. Sales and transfers of guns have to be recorded.
They already are.

I'm not really seeing any real solutions here, PE.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#72 May 5, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by this question. What kind of concealed carry laws? Can you clarify please?
The right of law-abiding citizens to carry a concealed weapon.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#73 May 5, 2013
Ferrerman wrote:
Funny too is people who advertise their guns with NRA stickers on their doors or car bumpers.
If they choose to advertise, that's on them. A public gun registry FORCES every gun owner to advertise. Real smart!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#74 May 5, 2013
jimshooz29 wrote:
Chicago tried a gun ban. Their homicide rate is #1 in the country. The criminals will always find a way to get guns no matter what. So any new gun control laws will only make it tougher on law abiding citizens. Here's a novel thought. How about enforcing the gun laws on the books?!
Gun control advocates seem to ignore the fact that gun crimes are highest in areas with the strictest gun laws. They for some reason think more gun control is the answer, yet can't explain why.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#75 May 5, 2013
So Dog-
what tangible suggestions do you have to address the prevalence of intentional gun violence in the US?

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#76 May 5, 2013
So what's the beef, Ferrerman?
I can pass any background check you throw at me.
BTW, the use of condescending terms such as 'teapublicans' diminishes the overall credibilty of your argument.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#77 May 5, 2013
PEllen wrote:
So Dog-
what tangible suggestions do you have to address the prevalence of intentional gun violence in the US?
Stricter laws don't seem to be working. I suggest we make it EASIER to purchase and carry firearms. An armed society is a polite society. There is more urban gun violence now than they saw in the old west.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#78 May 5, 2013
loose cannon wrote:
BTW, the use of condescending terms such as 'teapublicans' diminishes the overall credibilty of your argument.
In the absence of any valid arguments, slapping labels on people is all they have.

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#79 May 5, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
The right of law-abiding citizens to carry a concealed weapon.
Not opposed. You can carry a lot of other things that are just as deadly at a distance, so I don't see a lot of point in preventing concealed carry. My issue is with the lack of training requirements and the lack of tracking.

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#81 May 5, 2013
It's not true that you need a license to own a gun. Varies by state.

In most states you do not need a license or permit to purchase a gun and you likely do not need to register it either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_...

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#82 May 5, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
My issue is with the lack of training requirements and the lack of tracking.
I'm fairly certain that in every state you need to pass a gun safety class in order to conceal carry. I'm also fairly certain that the states keep a database on those who have conceal carry permits.

You people who think that there are no background checks and no type of gun registries are simply wrong. You cannot buy a gun and carry it around as easily as you can buy a snickers bar and keep it in your pocket. I suggest you people educate yourselves on the matter instead of having paranoia that there's no system of checks and balances.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#84 May 5, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Call yourself victorious when you make a valid point.
Hint: water is wet and guns can kill is not a valid point....
Many people are stabbed to death every year. Should knives be outlawed? Why, there's not even background checks to buy knives!!
There are laws about the type of blade you can carry, or don't you know about that?

(shaking head) While there is not background checks, there are laws about knives.

"The laws in Illinois regarding carrying knives are a little confusing and vague, but generally you're permitted to carry a knife with a blade up to 3" without any hassle. Having a knife in your possession while committing a crime, whether or not the knife is being used in the crime, will be grounds for a charge of carrying a dangerous weapon to be added on to the charges related to the crime itself.

Within the city of Chicago, and perhaps other cities, the blade length limit is 2.5" rather than 3".

Switchblades of any kind, defined as being able to be opened without touching the blade by means of a button or release on the handle, are illegal in most states, including Illinois.
(720 ILCS 5/24-1,2 States that there is NO limit to a 3" blade length, but rather knives that are either switchblade or ballistic (propelled blade) in possession commits the offense of unlawful use of a weapon. A knife blade that is thrust open by thumb on the blade itself and not on the handle is not in this category and is therefore able to be longer than 3") 720 ILCS 5/Article 33A states that "Armed with a dangerous weapon" means that you are carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3". This in itself is not a crime, but you commit armed violence only when committing a felony with this weapon."

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85 May 5, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm fairly certain that in every state you need to pass a gun safety class in order to conceal carry. I'm also fairly certain that the states keep a database on those who have conceal carry permits.
You people who think that there are no background checks and no type of gun registries are simply wrong. You cannot buy a gun and carry it around as easily as you can buy a snickers bar and keep it in your pocket. I suggest you people educate yourselves on the matter instead of having paranoia that there's no system of checks and balances.
No you don't. Simply buy from a private owner, go to a gun show or go to a state where there's a backlog of background checks. They'll get to it after a month or two but release the sale in about 7 days.

The the registries do not show who owns the guns, only the seller. The seller keeps the buyer's information. I have no idea what happens when the seller disappears. I would imagine so would those records.

So you were saying?

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#86 May 5, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm fairly certain that in every state you need to pass a gun safety class in order to conceal carry. I'm also fairly certain that the states keep a database on those who have conceal carry permits.
You people who think that there are no background checks and no type of gun registries are simply wrong. You cannot buy a gun and carry it around as easily as you can buy a snickers bar and keep it in your pocket. I suggest you people educate yourselves on the matter instead of having paranoia that there's no system of checks and balances.
You assume that I haven't educated myself. This is an incorrect assumption.

For a conceal carry you might need to pass a gun safety class, but I maintain that human nature guarantees that the people who are *most* dangerous are those who own a weapon, feel threatened, and carry the gun *without getting the conceal carry license*, figuring they're just going to carry it for a day or 2 while whatever situation is taken care of. This is a function of human nature. It's too late to get the permit when they feel threatened and they are going to figure that the shot of them getting caught carrying the weapon is slim, unless they have to use it and that if they have to use it, they'd rather be alive tyvm. If that even matters since their intention is more likely to be to threaten with it, not to actually shoot it.

THAT person is the one most likely to accidentally shoot someone's foot off. Due to nothing more than lack of competent training with their weapon.

There is too much gun violence that is "first time offender" by "previously law-abiding citizen" for me to stand here and say "oh! the system works fine! all law-abiding citizens maintain their law-abiding standing and this is rarely a problem!"

There is NO SUCH THING as a perfectly law-abiding citizen who has never broken a single law. We all do it in little ways where we determine the risk is worth it. Jaywalking, a red light that we took a shot on being able to make it while it was yellow, curfews, the day that separating the recycling is too much of a pain, taking an extra week to renew the registration on our car because we just couldn't get to the garage, so we drive around with an expired inspection sticker. Ordering from out of state and not declaring the purchase to avoid paying sales tax. That's now a closed loophole with new laws about when the sales tax is collected.

There are far too many loopholes in terms of background checks being performed AND what information is included in such a check.

Gun registries? Really? Please explain to me what gun registries are in place that will allow a law enforcement official to look up and identify what weapons a person owns? As a matter of practice in every state? Seriously. Prove to me that they exist and I'll drop that objection.

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#87 May 5, 2013
Ferrerman wrote:
<quoted text>I took the time to look over your link and, even though it's Wiki and not the ultra-reliable Edogxi, it was very interesting and informative.
Here's a gun expert advising nutters with children AND guns where to keep their weapons:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/04/nra-...
Interesting link, thanks. This is some of the logic which has formed my opinion about the need for training and licensing in order to purchase/own firearms. And that gun safety classes should be part of public elementary school education.

Because I DO agree. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Especially when the person handling the gun is uneducated about it.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#88 May 5, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
the people who are *most* dangerous are those who own a weapon, feel threatened, and carry the gun *without getting the conceal carry license*
And *I* maintain the people who are MOST dangerous are criminals who don't obey gun laws in the first place.
animaniactoo wrote:
There is too much gun violence that is "first time offender" by "previously law-abiding citizen"
WRONG. Most gun crimes are committed by people with extensive rap sheets.
animaniactoo wrote:
all law-abiding citizens maintain their law-abiding standing and this is rarely a problem!"
This is true.
animaniactoo wrote:
There is NO SUCH THING as a perfectly law-abiding citizen who has never broken a single law. We all do it in little ways where we determine the risk is worth it. Jaywalking, a red light that we took a shot on being able to make it while it was yellow, curfews, the day that separating the recycling is too much of a pain, taking an extra week to renew the registration on our car because we just couldn't get to the garage, so we drive around with an expired inspection sticker. Ordering from out of state and not declaring the purchase to avoid paying sales tax.
So? Are those people more likely to go on shooting sprees?
animaniactoo wrote:
Please explain to me what gun registries are in place that will allow a law enforcement official to look up and identify what weapons a person owns?
Gun owners must keep receipts and proof of purchase for five years. Gun stores must also keep a record as well.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#89 May 5, 2013
Toj wrote:
The the registries do not show who owns the guns, only the seller.
Wrong.
Toj wrote:
I have no idea what happens when the seller disappears. I would imagine so would those records.
Wrong.
Toj wrote:
So you were saying?
Educate yourself.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90 May 5, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
There are laws about the type of blade you can carry, or don't you know about that?
(shaking head) While there is not background checks, there are laws about knives.
"The laws in Illinois regarding carrying knives are a little confusing and vague, but generally you're permitted to carry a knife with a blade up to 3" without any hassle. Having a knife in your possession while committing a crime, whether or not the knife is being used in the crime, will be grounds for a charge of carrying a dangerous weapon to be added on to the charges related to the crime itself.
Within the city of Chicago, and perhaps other cities, the blade length limit is 2.5" rather than 3".
Switchblades of any kind, defined as being able to be opened without touching the blade by means of a button or release on the handle, are illegal in most states, including Illinois.
(720 ILCS 5/24-1,2 States that there is NO limit to a 3" blade length, but rather knives that are either switchblade or ballistic (propelled blade) in possession commits the offense of unlawful use of a weapon. A knife blade that is thrust open by thumb on the blade itself and not on the handle is not in this category and is therefore able to be longer than 3") 720 ILCS 5/Article 33A states that "Armed with a dangerous weapon" means that you are carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3". This in itself is not a crime, but you commit armed violence only when committing a felony with this weapon."
Hate to burst your little bubble but even with those laws, thousands of people are still stabbed every year.

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#91 May 5, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
And *I* maintain the people who are MOST dangerous are criminals who don't obey gun laws in the first place.
WRONG. Most gun crimes are committed by people with extensive rap sheets.
This is true.
So? Are those people more likely to go on shooting sprees?
Gun owners must keep receipts and proof of purchase for five years. Gun stores must also keep a record as well.
The extent that you are misreading me is to the extent that I would almost have to consider it to be deliberately obtuse. Giving the benefit of the doubt that you're simply reading it through a filter of your dirty lens on these issues, before I repeat what I said with minor clarification, please go back and read what I wrote again and see where your replies do not relate to what I wrote.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#92 May 5, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Stricter laws don't seem to be working. I suggest we make it EASIER to purchase and carry firearms. An armed society is a polite society. There is more urban gun violence now than they saw in the old west.
That wouldn't address the "collateral damage" of drive by shootings where extra or wrong people are hit. There is a lot of that in Chicago.

It wouldn't address domestic violence in the home.

If I gave you permission to carry a gun in your waistband, would that stop road rage?

These are not snarky questions, BTW.

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