“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#24 May 3, 2013
squishymama wrote:
When anyone is allowed to carry a gun,*I* have no control over how they behave and no protection if they decide to start shooting.
Exactly. So isn't it a good idea to arm the general public so we have a chance at protecting ourselves from trigger-happy gangbangers or psychos?
squishymama wrote:
And the only modifications made to guns is to make them kill people better. They're made to shoot faster or use more bullets


I'm all for that.
squishymama wrote:
oh, yeah forgot about silencers.
Silencers are illegal.
squishymama wrote:
And then there is the ammo that is expressly made to inflict major damage to people.
Isn't that kinda the point?
squishymama wrote:
So when a gunman kills a bunch of people, of course we blame the gun - it was doing exactly what it was intended to do.
Does it operate independently of the gunman? Isn't blaming the gun a little misguided?

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#25 May 3, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
I agree. But what type of "tracking" are you proposing? There was that newspaper that made public who had conceal carry permits in New York (I think.) Subsequently, a couple of those people had their homes burglarized. Should who owns a firearm be public knowledge?
I'm thinking more along the lines of the DMV. I don't think it should be public knowledge, but rather that the overall stats should be available to media (under freedom of information laws), and the individual stats should be logged such that law enforcement has access to it.

Kicking myself back to work now, I have to get this file spec'd and go home.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#26 May 3, 2013
What significant threat to you pose? I am puzzled by that statement.

There are already backround checks, cooling off periods and believe it or not each weapon is registered. a round is fired out of every barrel and that "Rifleing" is sent to the FBI. The information on the owner is filed as well.

Granted a private sale can circumvent these rules, but that is true with any regulated product. People drive cars with no inspection sticker because they know it wont pass inspection, bald tires, malfunctioning breaks, broken taillight etc. and that makes for a very dangerous automobile.

So I fail to see how reasonable measures are not being implemented to the same degree as any other regulated product.

There will always be loopholes, weapons will be stolen and used in robberies, then the crooks flee in stolen cars and kill innocents.
animaniactoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I pose a threat. Depends on the circumstances as to what I will do. Every single person is a threat on some level, the question is *how much* of a threat they represent. That's why my question is about law-abiding citizens who might pose *significant* threat.
Please explain how that middle ground is already being met when in much of the country it is possible to buy a gun with no tracking of the fact that you own the gun via the sale? No need to register that you own it? And assault weapons are available for sale again?

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#27 May 3, 2013
RACE wrote:
And how much control do you have over the other drivers on the road? Anyone of them can snap at any moment and you are just as powerless to prevent it, and even if they dont snap, cars still kill more people than guns, so I can make the statement that guns are less efficient in killing people that cars are and cars are actually a better killing machine. It does not matter that they are not designed to kill people, they do!
<quoted text>
Of course, but in all my years of driving I have been able to spot the bad driver and avoid them.

I might not be able to spot the wackjob with a concealed weapon until it was too late.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#28 May 3, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
in much of the country it is possible to buy a gun with no tracking of the fact that you own the gun via the sale
Untrue.
animaniactoo wrote:
No need to register that you own it?
Register to who? Gun sales leave a paper trail. Your purchase is in a database.
animaniactoo wrote:
And assault weapons are available for sale again?
So? The assault ban from 1994 to 2004 had ZERO affect on gun crimes. ZERO.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#29 May 3, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
I don't think it should be public knowledge, but rather that the overall stats should be available to media (under freedom of information laws)
Um... when you get home could you try to explain why you're contradicting yourself?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#30 May 3, 2013
RACE wrote:
And how much control do you have over the other drivers on the road? Anyone of them can snap at any moment and you are just as powerless to prevent it, and even if they dont snap, cars still kill more people than guns, so I can make the statement that guns are less efficient in killing people that cars are and cars are actually a better killing machine. It does not matter that they are not designed to kill people, they do!
<quoted text>
Not always:

"
Firearm-related deaths in the United States are expected to surpass the number of traffic fatalities by 2015, according to at least one recent study. In some states, that is already the reality.


In fact, it’s the case in at least 14 states across the country, Mother Jones reported on Monday. The publication, using information compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, determined that in 2010 – the most recent year for which data is available – nine states experienced more gun than vehicle accident deaths. In an even more grisly revelation, gun suicides alone outnumbered traffic deaths in five states – Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Utah.

Those figures are striking, considering the statistics. Someone in the U.S. dies about every 15 minutes in a motor vehicle crash, the CDC estimates. Those accidents are currently the leading cause of death for individuals between the ages of 5 and 34."

link: http://www.ibtimes.com/guns-kill-more-people-... #

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#31 May 3, 2013
I am not for banning guns. I do believe there are better ways to handling screening and definitely gun shows and private sales.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#32 May 3, 2013
Edog, I will respond to your post when I'm not typing on a f*cking phone. This thing drives me crazy.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#33 May 3, 2013
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
The title is wrong. If you want to have a genuine discussion, then quit being a disingenuous putz. I said today and numerous time previously that I do not want to ban all guns. If you have no interest in a sincere dialogue, just say so and quit asking me to respond to things I never said.
So state your dam position! You asked for this thread. Now you're gonna boo-hoo about the title!?

Your turn!...

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#34 May 3, 2013
squishymama wrote:
Of course, but in all my years of driving I have been able to spot the bad driver and avoid them.
I might not be able to spot the wackjob with a concealed weapon until it was too late.
Squishy, you are MORE likely to die from that driver you couldn't avoid then you are from that whack job that decides to go on a shooting spree!

Honestly, would you listen to yourself?!

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#35 May 3, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Um... when you get home could you try to explain why you're contradicting yourself?
"X number of people have carry permits" vs "David Jones of Stansbury, Ct has a carry permit". No contradiction.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#36 May 3, 2013
Ferrerman wrote:
Just what do you anarchists hate about laws?
Laws are necessary for a society. And how about we make laws that prevent your right to life, liberty, and pursuit of property?

Talk about anarchists. You wish to ban capitalism, competition, free market... Pot, meet kettle.

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

United States

#37 May 3, 2013
RACE wrote:
Oh, so at some point in the past you laid this all out but apparently it was all ignored or swept under the rug....Right, got it.
Here is a specific question for you
State your position on gun control.
I promise not to ignore it. At the very least you will get the opportunity to clarify your position and then the dog and I can never say anything to the contrary can we?
Of is being held to your word too much for you?
<quoted text>
Fine, last time. And if you or Mutt ignore it or try to twist it into something it isn't just to be argumentative, you can have fun arguing with yourselves.

-The argument that "law-abiding citizens pose no threat" is retarded. Everyone is "law-abiding" until they commit their first crime. James Holmes, the Aurora movie theater gunman, had no criminal record prior to killing 12 and injuring 58. He is but one example of many, so your "law-abiding citizen" argument doesn't hold water.

-As I have said numerous times previously, I can understand ownership of handguns for personal protection and rifles for hunting. I do not understand and neither you nor anyone else on here has articulated an agrument for ownership of machine guns/assault/assault-style weapons beyond "It's our right you can't take our guns."

-There is absolutely no reason to resist background checks and gun ownership registries. Again, no one has articulated an argument against checks and registries beyond "It's our right we don't want Big Brother all up in our business." News flash, between your mortgage, your car and your credit cards, any information anyone cares about is already out there. Guns are, by their very nature, lethal. With ownership should come responsibility and accountability. If you are going to be a responsible, law-abiding gun owner, then why the objection to registering your weapon? You've nothing to hide, right?

-The argument that "Checks and registries won't eliminate gun violence" is likewise retarded. So, what you're saying is that if there isn't a 100% successful solution, don't bother. That's stupid. Then let's just eliminate DUI/DWI laws and the drinking age. They don't 100% stop drinking and driving accidents, so why bother, right? It is ignorant to say "Well, if we can't totally solve it, let's not try at all." If you are genuinely interested in the issue, look into what Australia did re: gun control. Did they eliminate gun violence totally? No, but they put a heck of a dent in it. And the funny thing is that the movement was led by the conservative party who knew that, initially, the position would not be popular, but it has worked. To me, it is willfully ignorant to dismiss the potential for reducing the possibility of another Sandy Hook or Aurora in the name of "Yer not takin' my guns cuz it's my right."

More later, right now I gots to go gits ready for some Hawks watchin'. Ya know, cuz I gots ta go be a follower.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#38 May 3, 2013
animaniactoo wrote:
"X number of people have carry permits" vs "David Jones of Stansbury, Ct has a carry permit". No contradiction.
The info should be available to the media but not the public? Yes, contradiction.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#39 May 3, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Squishy, you are MORE likely to die from that driver you couldn't avoid then you are from that whack job that decides to go on a shooting spree!
Honestly, would you listen to yourself?!
With all the safety features on my car I better not.

And if you wish to have a civil conversation with me please do not intimate that I am stupid.

“boredom made me do it”

Since: Aug 08

ny, ny

#40 May 3, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
The info should be available to the media but not the public? Yes, contradiction.
Pardon general public is what I meant in terms of media, as what the media has access to via Freedom of Information act is same as what public has access to and was responding to your specific question about the previous publishing incident.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#42 May 3, 2013
So... You just admitted that your life has been threatened more times by cars and not a single time by a gun. Yet guns are the killers?
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, but in all my years of driving I have been able to spot the bad driver and avoid them.
I might not be able to spot the wackjob with a concealed weapon until it was too late.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#43 May 3, 2013
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
-The argument that "law-abiding citizens pose no threat" is retarded. Everyone is "law-abiding" until they commit their first crime. James Holmes, the Aurora movie theater gunman, had no criminal record prior to killing 12 and injuring 58. He is but one example of many, so your "law-abiding citizen" argument doesn't hold water.
And the millions of "law-abiding citizens" who DON'T go on shooting sprees?...
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
I do not understand and neither you nor anyone else on here has articulated an agrument for ownership of machine guns/assault/assault-style weapons beyond "It's our right you can't take our guns."
"Machine guns" or automatic weapons are illegal. Why do you have a problem with "assault style" weapons? Why shouldn't the American people be allowed to own them? You say we haven't argued why we SHOULD own them, but you haven't explained why we SHOULDN'T.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
If you are going to be a responsible, law-abiding gun owner, then why the objection to registering your weapon? You've nothing to hide, right?
Again, their weapons are already registered "somewhere." Gun owners simply don't want the fact they own a gun to be public knowledge for the obvious reasons already stated.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
So, what you're saying is that if there isn't a 100% successful solution, don't bother.
No, YOU are the only one who's ever said that.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
look into what Australia did re: gun control. Did they eliminate gun violence totally? No, but they put a heck of a dent in it.
One, we are not Australia. Two, Australia was settled by banished criminals. Three, America was founded by people fleeing an oppressive government who put the SECOND amendment... remind you, it's the SECOND one behind freedom of speech, if that tells you anything.. for a REASON. Can you guess what that was?

Enjoy the Hawks game. Dam Canadian. Screw hockey. Sox playing tonight?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#44 May 3, 2013
Nice post sam. I disagree with most all of it, but will elaborate tomorrow. Time to cook dinner and enjoy some wine.
(sun came out, so got a boat ride afterall)
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine, last time. And if you or Mutt ignore it or try to twist it into something it isn't just to be argumentative, you can have fun arguing with yourselves.
-The argument that "law-abiding citizens pose no threat" is retarded. Everyone is "law-abiding" until they commit their first crime. James Holmes, the Aurora movie theater gunman, had no criminal record prior to killing 12 and injuring 58. He is but one example of many, so your "law-abiding citizen" argument doesn't hold water.
-As I have said numerous times previously, I can understand ownership of handguns for personal protection and rifles for hunting. I do not understand and neither you nor anyone else on here has articulated an agrument for ownership of machine guns/assault/assault-style weapons beyond "It's our right you can't take our guns."
-There is absolutely no reason to resist background checks and gun ownership registries. Again, no one has articulated an argument against checks and registries beyond "It's our right we don't want Big Brother all up in our business." News flash, between your mortgage, your car and your credit cards, any information anyone cares about is already out there. Guns are, by their very nature, lethal. With ownership should come responsibility and accountability. If you are going to be a responsible, law-abiding gun owner, then why the objection to registering your weapon? You've nothing to hide, right?
-The argument that "Checks and registries won't eliminate gun violence" is likewise retarded. So, what you're saying is that if there isn't a 100% successful solution, don't bother. That's stupid. Then let's just eliminate DUI/DWI laws and the drinking age. They don't 100% stop drinking and driving accidents, so why bother, right? It is ignorant to say "Well, if we can't totally solve it, let's not try at all." If you are genuinely interested in the issue, look into what Australia did re: gun control. Did they eliminate gun violence totally? No, but they put a heck of a dent in it. And the funny thing is that the movement was led by the conservative party who knew that, initially, the position would not be popular, but it has worked. To me, it is willfully ignorant to dismiss the potential for reducing the possibility of another Sandy Hook or Aurora in the name of "Yer not takin' my guns cuz it's my right."
More later, right now I gots to go gits ready for some Hawks watchin'. Ya know, cuz I gots ta go be a follower.

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