Amy 3-22

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#61
Mar 22, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
By standing when all others are kneeling yes, no matter how quiet you are you are creating a disturbance. If you cant see that, I think you should at least consider it. By not joining in you are drawing attention to yourself, and that creates discontinuity in the service.
<quoted text>
When people kneel to pray, I sit in the pew. WHen they are standing, I am standing.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#62
Mar 22, 2013
 
But red said when asked to bow her head, she refuses. I guess she should go to your church and nobody would ever know what the heck she was doing. T


The problem with that though is then, since she cant be identified as a non believer (by her posturing), she may be identified AS a believer (by her posturing), which she apparently is also steadfastly opposed to have happening.
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
The church I go to, the pastor never says "let us bow our heads in prayer", she says "now let us pray" and if I feel like praying while staring at the alter flowers then that's what I'm going to do.
Where your eyes are pointed is not indicative of where your attention is pointed.

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#63
Mar 22, 2013
 
Race, maybe you haven't been to Catholic services, but there is kneeling praying and standing praying. I won't kneel. I was raised that the kneeling praying is ONLY for Catholics (like Communion is only for Catholics in a Catholic church), but the standing praying is for everybody who's there.

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#64
Mar 22, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
We have had this argument before, You call it conform, like some yoke is placed upon your shoulders that makes you bow your head. I perceive it as showing respect for the tradition and rituals of the house of worship that I am in.
And even if some did mistake you for a believer, of what harm is there in that? What ill could possibly come from such a thing.
You admit to liking to watch girl porn, but insist that you are not gay, and say you dont care if anybody believes it's true or not, but god forbid someone mistake you for a person of faith???
I see that as an overreaction.
Why are you concerned?
<quoted text>
Why are YOU concerned?

I don't want people assuming I'm a believer. That's my right. That also doesn't hurt or affect anyone else in any way.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

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#65
Mar 22, 2013
 
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
If I conform, people will assume that I am a believer. I do not want people to assume that.
No, good heavens, we can't have any of that. If people see you with your head bowed, they're gonna assume you must be christian and they're gonna run out and tell everybody and the next thing you know, CNN will be on your doorstep wanting an interview, and you're gonna be asked to be the guest speaker at the next revival. I tells ya, all hell is gonna break lose! No, no, you better be godam CLEAR to everybody that you don't subscribe to any of that noise!
Stina

Saint Petersburg, FL

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#66
Mar 22, 2013
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
Nick's family goes en mass (parents, siblings, grandkids, aunt, uncle cousins). So I did that one year. Two years ago, I had him offer to his dad that we'd go to Midnight Mass with him if he wanted (they're Catholic). His dad was really happy with that (I think he's the lone practicing Catholic in the family).
This past Christmas, I told Nick I wasn't going, and he was okay with that. I'd make it an every other year thing or so.
Ah, I get it

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#67
Mar 22, 2013
 
I did not say it was more or less noticeable than anything. Sure a crying baby is more noticeable that she would be, but that does not mean she would not be noticeable.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>So someone who is not bowing their head and folding their hands, but otherwise lost in the crowd of people who are, is more noticeable than someone squeezes their way out of the pew and walks down the aisle? WTF? Is this edogg?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

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#68
Mar 22, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
Really? So when you're in the hospital room of a dying atheist, why is it ok to try to involve them in prayer?
Um... did I say I would?

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#69
Mar 22, 2013
 

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edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
No, good heavens, we can't have any of that. If people see you with your head bowed, they're gonna assume you must be christian and they're gonna run out and tell everybody and the next thing you know, CNN will be on your doorstep wanting an interview, and you're gonna be asked to be the guest speaker at the next revival. I tells ya, all hell is gonna break lose! No, no, you better be godam CLEAR to everybody that you don't subscribe to any of that noise!
What's wrong with CHristians realizing a nonbeliever is attending their services? It can't hurt anything.

You don't even go to church and you certainly are not an example of a good Christian.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#70
Mar 22, 2013
 

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I went to a catholic school for two years, and went to lots of their services. As far as I knew the only thing that was catholic only was getting the wafer and wine. Even though in my church I could receive these things, in a catholic church, it was just for them. Heck, could have been the same in mine, I just was unaware of the rule since it did not apply to me.

Anyway, I may have gotten us off track with the kneel/stand thing, but it seems to me that you take offense to the act of bowing your head.
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
Race, maybe you haven't been to Catholic services, but there is kneeling praying and standing praying. I won't kneel. I was raised that the kneeling praying is ONLY for Catholics (like Communion is only for Catholics in a Catholic church), but the standing praying is for everybody who's there.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#71
Mar 22, 2013
 
I am not concerned at all, but your not doing these things in my church either.
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are YOU concerned?
I don't want people assuming I'm a believer. That's my right. That also doesn't hurt or affect anyone else in any way.

“I Am Mine”

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#72
Mar 22, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
I did not say it was more or less noticeable than anything. Sure a crying baby is more noticeable that she would be, but that does not mean she would not be noticeable.
<quoted text>
I don't understand why it bothers you so much. So you notice someone who is not following along with all the movements you do. That in itself is not disruptive or disrespectful. You ghave an attitude that everyone must participate fully or they are not welcome. How christian of you.

I went to catholic school for 12 years. Religious class every day. Church service for every special day(church was just across the parking lot). there was a girl in my class who was NOT Catholic. I assume her parents sent her there because it was a good school. She never did the whole sit stand kneel thing either. She sat quietly when everyone else was kneeling. For those f us that were kneeling, we had to kneel straight up and not slouch back and lean our butts on the pew, otherwise the nuns would come give us a hard time. She was never expected to go thru the motions. She came along with the rest of us and just kept quiet. I'm guessing if you were running things, you would have made her conform or kicked her out.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

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#73
Mar 22, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
Really? When the pastor asks for the congragation to bow for a prayer you see all this going on? What church do YOU go to? The church of Romper-Room and busy bodies? And why weren't you bowing your head???
<quoted text>
Because I'm not one of the 1/4th that are and don't pretend to be.:)

So, as I asked, how would a religious person who finds it offensive for someone not having their head bowed be offended if a person does not bow their head when they should not be able to see that person who is only looking straight ahead?

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#74
Mar 22, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
I went to a catholic school for two years, and went to lots of their services. As far as I knew the only thing that was catholic only was getting the wafer and wine. Even though in my church I could receive these things, in a catholic church, it was just for them. Heck, could have been the same in mine, I just was unaware of the rule since it did not apply to me.
Anyway, I may have gotten us off track with the kneel/stand thing, but it seems to me that you take offense to the act of bowing your head.
<quoted text>
The Kneeling prayers are more about Catholic doctrine stuff, so that's why we non-Catholics sat quietly instead of kneeling. The standing prayers seemed more like stuff out of the bible or less about the liturgy.

“I Am Mine”

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#75
Mar 22, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Um... did I say I would?
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I was thinking it was likely that religious friends were trying to get them to all pray together, "let's do a prayer circle around bob," etc.
No way would I do that.
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
And what is the dam harm?
When in Rome....except if you want to pray and the Romans don't...F the Romans.
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
And therin is my question. Why the hell is someone praying causing YOU anxiety and uncomfortableness?
So the Romans need to justify why they are uncomfortable with praying, otherwise F the Romans.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#76
Mar 22, 2013
 
Red,
I can see your position, really I can. You are going to church as a courtesy to others, and you are willing to be as accommodating as your comfortable with. I get all that.

The thing is, in my perception If *I* were to do as you do, I would feel like even though I am doing all this to be nice, I would still be broadcasting my non belief and that I feel like its a chore for me to be doing it at all.

Not, not not saying thats how you feel though.

Now if I was asked to drink chicken blood, I may balk, but not because I would be afraid that peeps might think me a believer, just that I would puke if I drank it.
But if their religion has a part where everybody stood on one foot, am I going to keep both feet on the ground, just so nobody mistakes me as a believer? Not a chance, I will be on one foot with everyone else.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#77
Mar 22, 2013
 
Wrong and wrong!
It would not bother me in the slightest. I dont feel anyone has to conform, what I dont get is why they dont want to.

My church is not in a building, it does not have a dress code, and it does not care if there are non believers within its mist, but there are people who's faith does have these things, yours being one of them

If I was going to go to a religious ceremony,*I* would want to partake as fully as possible, The entire reason for the ceremony is to Celebrate!

I guess I came across totally wrong, I dont think people are bad for not following the program, nor do I insist that they do follow it. I am just saying that *MY*'tude about the whole thing is that if I am going to partake of a service, even though it is not my faith, I am still going to do all I can to immerse myself into their experience.

Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>I don't understand why it bothers you so much. So you notice someone who is not following along with all the movements you do. That in itself is not disruptive or disrespectful. You ghave an attitude that everyone must participate fully or they are not welcome. How christian of you.
I went to catholic school for 12 years. Religious class every day. Church service for every special day(church was just across the parking lot). there was a girl in my class who was NOT Catholic. I assume her parents sent her there because it was a good school. She never did the whole sit stand kneel thing either. She sat quietly when everyone else was kneeling. For those f us that were kneeling, we had to kneel straight up and not slouch back and lean our butts on the pew, otherwise the nuns would come give us a hard time. She was never expected to go thru the motions. She came along with the rest of us and just kept quiet. I'm guessing if you were running things, you would have made her conform or kicked her out.

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#78
Mar 22, 2013
 
I see nothing to be ashamed of in being a nonbeliever, so I'm not going to pretend just so others can feel comfortable.

If I had a party of atheists and my Christian friend were there, I wouldn't expect her to not be able to say "When I was at church on Sunday, this baby in front of me was making spit bubbles." She can leave her cross necklace on. No need to pretend she's atheist.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#79
Mar 22, 2013
 
I did not say that a religious person would find it offensive, I said that (and I should probably start with the word *I*)
*I* think its offensive (or maybe rude, or just so much todo about nothing) to not follow along with the rituals of someone elses house. That goes of church and home.

*I* will bow, kneel,stand, chant, and pray whatever is requested of me while I am a guest in someone else's church. No skin off my nose, and I think its what a good guest should do.

Like wise, if I am a dinner guest and the host wants to hold hands and say a prayer, fine by me. If they want me to hold my plate over my head and walk around the table 3 times, fine by me. Again thats what a good guest does.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Because I'm not one of the 1/4th that are and don't pretend to be.:)
So, as I asked, how would a religious person who finds it offensive for someone not having their head bowed be offended if a person does not bow their head when they should not be able to see that person who is only looking straight ahead?

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#80
Mar 22, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
Wrong and wrong!
It would not bother me in the slightest. I dont feel anyone has to conform, what I dont get is why they dont want to.
My church is not in a building, it does not have a dress code, and it does not care if there are non believers within its mist, but there are people who's faith does have these things, yours being one of them
If I was going to go to a religious ceremony,*I* would want to partake as fully as possible, The entire reason for the ceremony is to Celebrate!
I guess I came across totally wrong, I dont think people are bad for not following the program, nor do I insist that they do follow it. I am just saying that *MY*'tude about the whole thing is that if I am going to partake of a service, even though it is not my faith, I am still going to do all I can to immerse myself into their experience.
<quoted text>
But you're celebrating GOD/Jesus/other deity.

I will be there to show support for the people getting married, the family of the person who died, the child being baptized, or to keep someone company at Christmas, but I am NOT there to celebrate religion or God or anything like that.

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