Topix Chitown Regulars

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#98449 May 2, 2014
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>I love words.
I was accused, with some justification, of reading the dictionary in grade school.
I have yet to figure out how to look up a word in a hard copy dictionary f you don't know how it is spelled.
When I went to check on Ry the other night, he had fallen asleep reading the dictionary :) E is going to get his own when he enters 1st grade so that they don't have to fight over it.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#98450 May 2, 2014
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
But it makes sense that one would learn basic addition and subtraction before long division. What comes before spelling besides simply learning how to print letters? Why let kids get used to spelling everything phonetically just to break them of their bad habits to teach them correctly later, when you can just teach them correctly in the first place?
Hey I never claimed to have a teaching degree. But here's what I googled.

http://www.greatschools.org/students/academic...

Since: Mar 09

Hollywood, FL

#98451 May 2, 2014
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Hey I never claimed to have a teaching degree. But here's what I googled.
http://www.greatschools.org/students/academic...
"...kindergartners are encouraged to spell words the way they sound, which is known as phonetic or “invented” spelling."

This makes me cringe. Another way of putting this is kindergartners are encouraged to spell things however they want, incorrectly. Invented spelling? What kind if hippy dippy horse poop is that?

But I never claimed to have a teaching degree either.

Cheluzal, want to chime in here?

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#98452 May 2, 2014
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
But it makes sense that one would learn basic addition and subtraction before long division. What comes before spelling besides simply learning how to print letters? Why let kids get used to spelling everything phonetically just to break them of their bad habits to teach them correctly later, when you can just teach them correctly in the first place?
I think it has to do with frustration levels. If you're asked to write about your weekend and you have to stop 20 times to look up words in a dictionary, pretty soon the story gets lost and all creativity and fun is taken out of it. But my kids go to an arts-focused magnet school, so that may have something to do with the focus, at first, being on expressing yourself and not the spelling.

And spelling in English is really hard to learn. We have some really goofy words that make no sense to the little ones. I say let them use "kindergarten spell" for a year or so; they will learn the proper way to spell things soon enough. I can't tell you how many times Lulu has asked me how to spell something and when I tell her how, she gives me that "really?" look and I say "welcome to English!" And let's not even get started on homophones...

Since: Mar 09

Hollywood, FL

#98453 May 2, 2014
And yes, I see the irony of having a typo in my last post.

;)

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#98455 May 2, 2014
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
"...kindergartners are encouraged to spell words the way they sound, which is known as phonetic or “invented” spelling."
This makes me cringe. Another way of putting this is kindergartners are encouraged to spell things however they want, incorrectly. Invented spelling? What kind if hippy dippy horse poop is that?
But I never claimed to have a teaching degree either.
Cheluzal, want to chime in here?
Makes a bit of sense to me if you are going to teach phonics. It is the step right before teaching them the words and how to do things phonetically. Otherwise, they are memorizing the spelling of things.

I would think a bit of both would be the right combination, though.
cheluzal

Plant City, FL

#98456 May 2, 2014
j_m_w wrote:
I learned how to spell my (maiden) last name by listening to my dad make dinner reservations on the phone, haha.
I think it's abhorrent that schools "don't worry about spelling."
Some schools; some teachers.

I teach 8th grade GIFTED/HONORS Language Arts and I have kids who can't put a freaking period at the end of a sentence! Trust me, every frakking misspelled word is circled and corrected by Ms. Cheluzal. Punctuation, too. I've all but banned contractions.

I have one parent who, while nice, thinks I'm a bit "too picky" about it. Um, her son is gifted and doesn't capitalize the first word of a sentence...give me a break.
I fight an uphill battle, I know, but I refuse to relent!
cheluzal

Plant City, FL

#98457 May 2, 2014
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
"...kindergartners are encouraged to spell words the way they sound, which is known as phonetic or “invented” spelling."
This makes me cringe. Another way of putting this is kindergartners are encouraged to spell things however they want, incorrectly. Invented spelling? What kind if hippy dippy horse poop is that?
But I never claimed to have a teaching degree either.
Cheluzal, want to chime in here?
Haha, just saw this after my previous post.
Honestly, I get some people aren't great at spelling/writing. I'm not great at math. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
But if your child is in gifted or honors classes and graduating high school, they should know how to spell most commonly-used words correctly.
The "write whatever" mentality was created when standardized tests (in FL, the FCAT) cared more about what they wrote than how, even though it was a section of the grading rubric.
So teachers, whose pay/job is often tied to students achievement, felt they had to adjust.

A couple years ago in FL, someone realized that kids can't spell, so they acted like they changed the rubric. Um, no--they actually held to the original one. Scores plummeted and they had to adjust it accordingly so it didn't look like near 80% of our 8th graders failed. What a joke.

I also firmly maintain technology has made people stupider and more dependent on it than on learning the right way. Most of the weird English language is a matter of memorizing, and no one can be bothered.

But hey, what do I know? I'm the moron who still teaches her kids cursive.

/soapbox

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#98458 May 2, 2014
cheluzal wrote:
<quoted text>
Some schools; some teachers.
I teach 8th grade GIFTED/HONORS Language Arts and I have kids who can't put a freaking period at the end of a sentence! Trust me, every frakking misspelled word is circled and corrected by Ms. Cheluzal. Punctuation, too. I've all but banned contractions.
I have one parent who, while nice, thinks I'm a bit "too picky" about it. Um, her son is gifted and doesn't capitalize the first word of a sentence...give me a break.
I fight an uphill battle, I know, but I refuse to relent!
Ha! He's just the next e.e. cummings.
:D

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#98459 May 2, 2014
this is funny wrote:
<quoted text>Yep but they've been around longer. I believe they were founded in Madison, Wisconsin and operate out of Chicago- the funniest city in the world.
I know (alleged) grown men who boast like that too....
Probably a spark to the ego, but a hurdle for parts of the psyche.....I'd already moved away, by the time Second City became a big deal.....Alotta talent came thru there....

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#98461 May 2, 2014
cheluzal wrote:
<quoted text>Haha, just saw this after my previous post.
Honestly, I get some people aren't great at spelling/writing. I'm not great at math. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
But if your child is in gifted or honors classes and graduating high school, they should know how to spell most commonly-used words correctly.
The "write whatever" mentality was created when standardized tests (in FL, the FCAT) cared more about what they wrote than how, even though it was a section of the grading rubric.
So teachers, whose pay/job is often tied to students achievement, felt they had to adjust.

A couple years ago in FL, someone realized that kids can't spell, so they acted like they changed the rubric. Um, no--they actually held to the original one. Scores plummeted and they had to adjust it accordingly so it didn't look like near 80% of our 8th graders failed. What a joke.

I also firmly maintain technology has made people stupider and more dependent on it than on learning the right way. Most of the weird English language is a matter of memorizing, and no one can be bothered.

But hey, what do I know? I'm the moron who still teaches her kids cursive.

/soapbox
Our school started teaching cursive to the second graders again. Yay!

I don't want my kids to rely on spellcheck or MS Word for their spelling and grammar.

While we're at it, have I told you guys that my Kindergartener was allowed to use a calculator to practice counting by twos and fives. That's BS. No wonder out kids are having a hard time with math.

Ry told me today that they learned how to calculate volume. I asked what they taught him and first he said something about one cube at the bottom times the height. Then he told me they taught him L x W x D. I told him to forget about the cube idea because it was garbage. He needs to learn the formulas.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#98463 May 2, 2014
ScarletandOlive wrote:
Ry told me today that they learned how to calculate volume. I asked what they taught him and first he said something about one cube at the bottom times the height. Then he told me they taught him L x W x D. I told him to forget about the cube idea because it was garbage. He needs to learn the formulas.
What grade is he in? For some reason, I have it in my head that he's in first grade. I don't recall learning multiplication till 3rd grade, much less formulas.

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#98464 May 2, 2014
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>What grade is he in? For some reason, I have it in my head that he's in first grade. I don't recall learning multiplication till 3rd grade, much less formulas.
He's in second grade, but spends half the day in a third grade classroom for reading, writing and math. They do basic multiplication in second grade, but don't do division until third grade.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#98465 May 3, 2014
this is funny wrote:
<quoted text>We've been lucky here with both a wealth of homegrown talent like John Belushi, Bill Murray and his brothers and many others but, with Second City, a ton of talented visitors from all over that studied in the city.
Plus, when i went to highschool, in Park Forest....i once saw Kevin O'Conner at lunch, make my friend Howie laugh so hard, he passed part of a grilled cheese sandwich, thru his nose.....Good Times....

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#98466 May 3, 2014
ScarletandOlive wrote:
<quoted text>
Our school started teaching cursive to the second graders again. Yay!
I don't want my kids to rely on spellcheck or MS Word for their spelling and grammar.
While we're at it, have I told you guys that my Kindergartener was allowed to use a calculator to practice counting by twos and fives. That's BS. No wonder out kids are having a hard time with math.
Ry told me today that they learned how to calculate volume. I asked what they taught him and first he said something about one cube at the bottom times the height. Then he told me they taught him L x W x D. I told him to forget about the cube idea because it was garbage. He needs to learn the formulas.
Last week while waiting for the morning stuff to get done so I could start the division lesson with the kids (tutoring in 3rd grade now) I was writing, and re-writing stuff for the French test I was going to take later. It was in cursive. Five of the kids asked me what it was and I said "read it." The couldn't read it but not because it was in French, because it was cursive and they had no idea how to read cursive. <sigh> I told each one of them to make a point of learning it because LOTS of people write that way and if they don't know how to read it they are going to miss out. Not sure if it will "take" but I put it out there.

I'm going to talk to the teacher about teaching them cursive. He has a kind of full plate trying to fit everything into the day but maybe I can do something to help them learn; make it part of the tutoring schedule. Would love to have them being able to read it before June gets here and they move on to forth grade.

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#98467 May 3, 2014
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>Last week while waiting for the morning stuff to get done so I could start the division lesson with the kids (tutoring in 3rd grade now) I was writing, and re-writing stuff for the French test I was going to take later. It was in cursive. Five of the kids asked me what it was and I said "read it." The couldn't read it but not because it was in French, because it was cursive and they had no idea how to read cursive. <sigh> I told each one of them to make a point of learning it because LOTS of people write that way and if they don't know how to read it they are going to miss out. Not sure if it will "take" but I put it out there.

I'm going to talk to the teacher about teaching them cursive. He has a kind of full plate trying to fit everything into the day but maybe I can do something to help them learn; make it part of the tutoring schedule. Would love to have them being able to read it before June gets here and they move on to forth grade.
These worksheets are free and super helpful http://www.k5learning.com/cursive-writing-wor...
ScarletandOlive

Indianapolis, IN

#98468 May 3, 2014
Why won't it let me post links? Mimi, these are awesome and free -

http://www.k5learning. com/cursive-writing-worksheets

Take out the space between the dot and com
ScarletandOlive

Indianapolis, IN

#98469 May 3, 2014
Haha! I am too impatient :)
cheluzal

Plant City, FL

#98470 May 3, 2014
ScarletandOlive wrote:
<quoted text>
Our school started teaching cursive to the second graders again. Yay!
I don't want my kids to rely on spellcheck or MS Word for their spelling and grammar.
While we're at it, have I told you guys that my Kindergartener was allowed to use a calculator to practice counting by twos and fives. That's BS. No wonder out kids are having a hard time with math.
Ry told me today that they learned how to calculate volume. I asked what they taught him and first he said something about one cube at the bottom times the height. Then he told me they taught him L x W x D. I told him to forget about the cube idea because it was garbage. He needs to learn the formulas.
Most don't even use Word properly! Shoot, I've taught future English teachers who don't use spellcheck. Um, if you want to teach English, at least know it by college, ugh.

And Common Core is screwing up things. Like that cube stuff. They have kids go a route with 80 steps when they could do it in 2. And when parents teach them the shorter way, they get in trouble for not showing all steps. I mean, it's math. 2+2 is always 4. Who cares how you get it, as long as you get the right answer?

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#98471 May 3, 2014
cheluzal wrote:
<quoted text>Most don't even use Word properly! Shoot, I've taught future English teachers who don't use spellcheck. Um, if you want to teach English, at least know it by college, ugh.

And Common Core is screwing up things. Like that cube stuff. They have kids go a route with 80 steps when they could do it in 2. And when parents teach them the shorter way, they get in trouble for not showing all steps. I mean, it's math. 2+2 is always 4. Who cares how you get it, as long as you get the right answer?
In our school, the tests ask for the answer and in step 2 "explain how you got the answer". As long as they give an explanation that makes sense, they get credit. That is a vast improvement over a few years ago when they had to use new math and only give that explanation.

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