Topix Chitown Regulars
Timmy

United States

#93861 Nov 19, 2013
You have no right of "sensibility". And the Supreme Court has already drawn that line and people can do whatever they want with flag in the name of free speech.
RACE wrote:
Disagree, First amendment does not give you the right to yell fire in a theater, a line has to be drawn somewhere. At what point does your desire to be derisive breach my rights of sensibility?
<quoted text>

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#93863 Nov 19, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>he never claimed it was illegal. Just that it offends him.
I get that. I was referring to whether or not it would be first amendment.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#93864 Nov 19, 2013
Sigh.

1989 US Supreme Court case of Texas v Johnson struck down the flag desecration statutes in 48 of 50 states

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

Efforts were made in Congress to pass a Constitutional amendment against flag desecration. The G W Bush administration could not get enough votes i Congress to pass the amendment and send it out for ratification by the states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Desecration...

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#93865 Nov 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
Hey, you want me to care about your cause... then consider mine.
when you dismiss my cause, then you lose a champion for yours.
They are taking a national symbol and hijacking it to their own selfish ends, and by doing so they gather not a single person to their cause, instead they invite animosity and hate, which is what they wanted all along
This.

If you feel a need to defile something so many find sacred to promote your cause, it's not a cause many will be willing to support. You are doing yourself and your cause no good. The LTBGQ -Q? what the hell is Q?- community can STFU for all I'm concerned.

And Pixx! Good to see you around! I'm cool with you being bi. How about a threeway?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#93866 Nov 20, 2013
Here are the columns so many men died for to give you the freedom to read them, all you America-haters!!

Amy

http://www.topix.com/forum/chicago/T56E5HS2II...

Abby

http://www.topix.com/forum/chicago/T9L8GNAF5A...

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#93867 Nov 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
Disagree, First amendment does not give you the right to yell fire in a theater, a line has to be drawn somewhere. At what point does your desire to be derisive breach my rights of sensibility?
<quoted text>
I understand what you're saying, and I can see your POV. I even agree with you in theory, but the problem with "sensibility" is that everyone is sensitive to *something(s)* and we can't curtail everyone else's rights because of the sensibility of some, whether "some" be one of a few million.

It's like the Muslims killing that cartoonist a few years ago because they didn't like the pictures of Mohammed…it offended their sensibility, so they took away his right to live. I get that they were offended, and why they were offended, but they really needed to just suck it up and understand that not everyone shares their opinion of what is offensive.

Basically the same thing with the flag which is they the SCOTUS has ruled that stuff like BURNING a flag (which *I* find way way way offensive) is legal and protected under the first amendment, ergo like I said, I can't see how changing the color of a picture of the flag could be offensive on the same level, and even if it is, it's protected.

There is a way to stop, or at least criminalize "desecration" of the flag (I used quotes because it was a picture, not an actual flag)…a constitutional amendment. I mean the dog is so rabid (dog...rabid…get it? LOL I crack myself up) about this issue perhaps he should start a grass roots campaign to get an amendment passed.

I PM'd you.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#93868 Nov 20, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand what you're saying, and I can see your POV. I even agree with you in theory, but the problem with "sensibility" is that everyone is sensitive to *something(s)* and we can't curtail everyone else's rights because of the sensibility of some, whether "some" be one of a few million.
This is what makes you and your ilk hypocrites. You expect the majority to cater to the sensibilities of the few (hence the whole "war on Christmas," even gay marriage) but you refuse to cater to the sensibilities of those whose viewes you don't happen to share.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#93869 Nov 20, 2013
Really?
What if you were to simply not parade the fact that your bi?
I have no idea whether someone is gay/straight/bi/ or into animals. Nor do I give a rats ass. In fact you would have a really hard time to get me to care one iota about your sexuality, so I just dont see how you being bi controls how people interact with you.
No, I am not saying that there is no prejudice, but I dont see how anyone would know your sexual orientation unless you told them, and if you had not told them, you could probably have avoided negative comments.

I aint saying stay in the closet, just dont bother telling anyone unless your asked. I dont!

And finally, your continued dismissal of what I feel is an insult to Americans both gay and straight, means I will continue to dismiss whatever perceived slight you may be experiencing.
Pixx wrote:
<quoted text>
My "silly gay issue" is my life (I'm bi). It affects how I'm treated 24/7. The image of an American flag affects your life for perhaps .5 seconds and in no way threatens your livelihood, rights, or personal safety. Like I said, if it really were the principles of the American flag that were so important to you, you'd be more worried about the fact that so many Americans face discrimination (discrimination that can often be lethal) than you would about the colors of the American flag.
Tonka: The "T" in LGBTQ stands for "trans." A lot of people are born with vaginas or penises but don't identify as women or men, respectively. Also, 1 in 100 people are born intersex, which means that they have genitalia or the genetic makeup of both male and female. It's a lot more common than you would think!:)

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#93870 Nov 20, 2013
In the bigger scheme of things people will treat the flag with the respect it deserves, and we wont have these conversations.
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I think that if it's legal to actually burn a perfectly good (i.e. not damaged) flag, which is considered to be a first amendment thing, that changing the colors of a *picture* of the flag must also be and isn't really all that bad in the bigger scheme of things. <shrug>

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#93871 Nov 20, 2013
I thought I had already. I pointed out that I did not feel it rose to the level abuse the the gay flag did because the stars were removed, I dont see the intent to superimpose the republican party upon an American flag the way the gay flag superimposed its colors on it. Granted, the difference may be in my head, my impression of the statement the person is trying to make, but as I have said, I have never seen the republican flag flying on a pole, and if I did see it being flown as a substitute for the American flag IE someone making the statement that they are not just an American, but a Republican American, the say way the the gay flag does, I would be just as pizzed off and consider it just as big a desecration (man am I tired of typing that word).
My issue is not so much with the flag, but the representation behind it. Fly your gay stars and stripes flag if you want, but put it BELOW the red white & blue one. Your first statement should always be that you are an American, then below that put whatever flag you like.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>I'm fine with all you have said, but I fail to see how you claim there is a difference between the flag Toj used as her avatar that started this discussion and the one she posted with the Republican elephant in place of the stars. They are both bastardizations of the US flag. They are both divisive in some way. I don't care what donkey has to say, but I would like to hear how you see these as so materially different.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#93872 Nov 20, 2013
Thats the point dummo. Just because you have the right to do something does not mean it is the right thing to do, or even that you should do it at all.

It's called mutual respect. If you defile something that I hold valuable, then you will never garner my sympathy for your cause. The fact that you can legally do it, means nothing to me. The bigger question is WHY? Why would you defile something and then scream at me to listen to your petition? How can you expect anyone to care about your grievance after you intentionally offend them.
That is stupid thinking, and the fact that you believe in it says alot.
Timmy wrote:
You have no right of "sensibility". And the Supreme Court has already drawn that line and people can do whatever they want with flag in the name of free speech.
<quoted text>

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#93873 Nov 20, 2013
RACE wrote:
I thought I had already. I pointed out that I did not feel it rose to the level abuse the the gay flag did because the stars were removed, I dont see the intent to superimpose the republican party upon an American flag the way the gay flag superimposed its colors on it. Granted, the difference may be in my head, my impression of the statement the person is trying to make, but as I have said, I have never seen the republican flag flying on a pole, and if I did see it being flown as a substitute for the American flag IE someone making the statement that they are not just an American, but a Republican American, the say way the the gay flag does, I would be just as pizzed off and consider it just as big a desecration (man am I tired of typing that word).
My issue is not so much with the flag, but the representation behind it. Fly your gay stars and stripes flag if you want, but put it BELOW the red white & blue one. Your first statement should always be that you are an American, then below that put whatever flag you like.
<quoted text>
I do think the difference is in your head, just as a gay democrat would feel the reverse. However, you have cleared things up a bit in that your main issue is how the flag is flown andnot just its existence and that the elepgant flag would bother you as well. Consistency is all i was looking for.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#93875 Nov 20, 2013
Good morning all!!! Just wanted to see this avatar on this page, keeping it fresh.
I'll bring back Liberty and Justice in a day or two.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#93876 Nov 20, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
Good morning all!!! Just wanted to see this avatar on this page, keeping it fresh.
I'll bring back Liberty and Justice in a day or two.
Shhhh! Didn't you know that the country is in a Don't Ask, Don't Tell phase? At least that's what I've been reading here.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#93877 Nov 20, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
Good morning all!!! Just wanted to see this avatar on this page, keeping it fresh.
I'll bring back Liberty and Justice in a day or two.
When you deliberately and intentionally offend a large group of people, how is that supposed to help your cause? Please explain that mindset.

How do you expect others to respect you, if you refuse to respect others?

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#93878 Nov 20, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
When you deliberately and intentionally offend a large group of people, how is that supposed to help your cause? Please explain that mindset.
How do you expect others to respect you, if you refuse to respect others?
I don't see a large group of people being offended, just you and Race.
I don't care at all if you are.
I'm just the tiniest bit sorry Race has a problem with the image, but not that much. It balances out the things he says that I find offensive.
More states recognizing equal rights every year, and gaining momentum.
I respect those who deserve it, who have earned it. You don't get any because you don't have it coming.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#93879 Nov 20, 2013
Oh yeah, they took down the post again. Thanks Topix!

“Not a real reg”

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#93880 Nov 20, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
When you deliberately and intentionally offend a large group of people, how is that supposed to help your cause? Please explain that mindset.
How do you expect others to respect you, if you refuse to respect others?
Look in a mirror and repeat this and repeat and repeat again and again.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#93881 Nov 20, 2013
Eh, none of us is perfect
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm just the tiniest bit sorry Race has a problem with the image, but not that much. It balances out the things he says that I find offensive.
Timmy

United States

#93882 Nov 20, 2013
hey dumbo, all I wrote was that your "sensabilities" do not have any rights and the Supreme Court has decided the flag issue. Exactly how is that stupid thinking?

Also, how about you and the mutt stop forcing your idiocy on the rest of us.
RACE wrote:
Thats the point dummo. Just because you have the right to do something does not mean it is the right thing to do, or even that you should do it at all.
It's called mutual respect. If you defile something that I hold valuable, then you will never garner my sympathy for your cause. The fact that you can legally do it, means nothing to me. The bigger question is WHY? Why would you defile something and then scream at me to listen to your petition? How can you expect anyone to care about your grievance after you intentionally offend them.
That is stupid thinking, and the fact that you believe in it says alot.
<quoted text>

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