“It made sense at the time....”

Since: May 09

Schaumburg, IL

#92310 Oct 4, 2013
OK, I *do* know how to skip posts, and i must say taht i'm getting tired of scrollign past better than 75% of them, lately.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92311 Oct 4, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Some portion of that money goes to subsidize teh insurance premiums of low income people. Not all low income people stay that way. the number flucuates. For example, my grad student daughter who worked last year but is scarbbling to find part time jobs this year will qualify for teh premium subsidy. Eventually she will make enough money not to be a drain but to pay back into teh sytem. This will also hold true of her friends who are young, healthy and at the beginning of there wage arning careers.
You really arenít subsidizing their care for them. We are subsidizing their care so they can subsidize the care of older folks. A big part of Obamacare is to get younger healthier folks into the insurance game so that they can help offset the costs of older folks and folks. Older folks on average require much more care than they pay in, whereas younger folks pay in much more than the care they receive. Heck, when I was in my 20s, I might have only gone to the doctor once every few years.

So, we arenít really subsidizing your daughters care Ö we are subsidizing older folks, who likely wonít ever pay back into the system.
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
The bottom feeders consume health care. In my experience the lowest paid people consume the most health care. If they are uninsured the health sytem renders teh care as a charity expense for which they must raise charges for teh rest of us. Do you want to go into a hospital which has the insured wing and the paupers ward? Didn't think so. The cost has to be capitalized. If there is someone to pay, teh care can be controlled and spread more equitably so teh government pays less overall.. Think of it as water seeking its own level.
Thatís how hosipitals are already run, i.e. with an insured wing and a puapers ward. I know. They send uninsured and medicare folks home way faster than insured folks. I donít really have a problem with that. I donít have a problem with folks who donít contribute to the system and only drain it, receiving somewhat less care. I think they deserve care, but I have no problem with less care.

Also the government is going pay less overall. Itís going to spend about 6300 for each of the 27 million folks who will now have coverage because of the law. Thatís an outrageous sum of money. How many households in this country do you think even pay $6300 or more each year in federal income tax?
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
The concept of insurance in the abstract requires collecting premiums from people who don't make claims which will balance the payouts for people with high costs whose premiums paid were less than the cost of their care.(Insurance companies are very highly regulated. Their loss ratios are published quarterly and the premiums they can charge are adjusted up or down. Insurance companies are the one industry that weathered the 2008 crash well. The part of AIG which had the problems was not its insurance companies) Premiums for people with good histories are less but are still present. If you compel people with a low loss experience into the pool, they will pay lower premiums from a larger number of people which will allow the carriers to fund care across the board. No too many people are still griping about mandatory auto insurance any more although they howled when the requirement was first being passed.
The problem I have is not so much with the mandate, but the subsidies.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#92312 Oct 4, 2013
I never said change the topic, or conform to my will. I am just saying the topic is played out, dead horse etc. etc. And as for you taking your own advice, I was referring to the skipping of posts you dont care for. You did not like what I said, and rather than simply ignore it and move on, you decided to tell me to do the very thing you did not do. That's called hypocrisy.

Nothing but love bro!
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never once told anyone they need to change the topic of conversation, because I don't care for it. I would never even think to do that or think that others must obey me and limit their discussions to topics I find tasteful and enjoy.
So, contrary to what you say, I do take my advice.
Nothing personal, Race. I'm just being honest. Doesn't mean I don't like ya.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92314 Oct 4, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
There is also the social concept that the less fortunate should be cared for by those with more. Will there be abuses, bottom dwellers, frauds? Of course. I am galled by that and I actively work against such people. But , and it is a big but, I am willing to tolerate that gall for the sake of the benefit that more people have access to reasonable health care because I see that as something basic and humane. Therefore the cost you cite is fluid, may go up or down but is one I am willing to stomach.
The current system already cares for those who are less fortunate. Is it lesser care;yes, but even under Obamacare they will have lesser care.

I don't see lesser care as a sin. If you want the best care you need to earn it and pay for it. Nothing but a basic safety net should be free in life. A basic safety net should not, by definition, be all that wonderful. If you want more than that, than you need to put in the effort to make that happen.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92315 Oct 4, 2013
Aisle Sitter wrote:
OK, I *do* know how to skip posts, and i must say taht i'm getting tired of scrollign past better than 75% of them, lately.
I'm with ya -- heh, and I've been a contributor. While I think it's an important subject, it seems we can't escape it for a minute.

Let's start with WEEKEND PLANS people. Red isn't around to prompt that.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92316 Oct 4, 2013
A noted observer wrote:
<quoted text>Well- parenthetically speaking- words strung together don't get much more ambiguous than the 2A. We don't arm prisoners or toddlers (on purpose)for example, so, what part of "shall not be infringed" are you people letting the government get away with?
I'm not letting the courts get away with anything. Courts don't always do what I say they should do.

I have my own thoughts on how judges should interpret laws, but other judges feel different and there is precedent. If I were a judge, the language seems pretty clear to me ... I don't have to like it ... I don't have to agree with it ... that's how a good judge should operate ... just interpret the law without your own thoughts on the subject coming into the equation ... be like Spock ... no emotional attachment or interest ... it's hard to do, but that should be the first thing every judge strives to do, IMO, when interpreting laws.

I'm pretty sure states would not allow toddlers or prisoners to be armed, btw. This is Hyperbole.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92318 Oct 4, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The current system already cares for those who are less fortunate. Is it lesser care;yes, but even under Obamacare they will have lesser care.
I don't see lesser care as a sin. If you want the best care you need to earn it and pay for it. Nothing but a basic safety net should be free in life. A basic safety net should not, by definition, be all that wonderful. If you want more than that, than you need to put in the effort to make that happen.
Go in the corner with your marbles and don't share. We're okay with you doing that.

Most people understand there are people who cannot work to earn it for many different reasons. Also, there are people who, no matter how hard they work, under the current system their preexisting condition renders them uninsurable. I'm not going to list everyone who is unable to "work for it" as you put it.

There will always be fraud and lazy people. Doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92320 Oct 4, 2013
Hey, who saw the flap with Sinead and Miley Cyrus. And does anyone else think Miley Cyrus is getting even more irritating?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92321 Oct 4, 2013
I guess there are two landfalls for Tropical Storm Karen.

Is that the one they fear will turn into a hurricane?

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#92322 Oct 4, 2013
A noted observer wrote:
<quoted text>Well- parenthetically speaking- words strung together don't get much more ambiguous than the 2A. We don't arm prisoners or toddlers (on purpose)for example, so, what part of "shall not be infringed" are you people letting the government get away with?
There are some things which are assumed and which don't have to be stated.

If you reference a wheel you do not have to say it is round every time.

When the 2nd Amendment was drafted, people meant human beings not otherwise under a legal impediment. Legal impediments at the time meant being a lunatic, a child ( don't ask me what the age of majority was in 1790. I don't remember), a woman or a slave.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92323 Oct 4, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Go in the corner with your marbles and don't share. We're okay with you doing that.
Most people understand there are people who cannot work to earn it for many different reasons. Also, there are people who, no matter how hard they work, under the current system their preexisting condition renders them uninsurable. I'm not going to list everyone who is unable to "work for it" as you put it.
There will always be fraud and lazy people. Doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.
I don't have a problem with Obamacare forbidding insurance company's from denying folks insurance for preexisting conditions. It's one of the few aspects I like.

People who cannot work, can go on disability and get medicare. If they can't qualify for disability, then they can work. Do you understand that?

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#92325 Oct 4, 2013
Toj wrote:
There will always be fraud and lazy people. Doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.
Sure it does. They shouldn't have had those babies in the first place. <eyeroll>

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92326 Oct 4, 2013
A noted observer wrote:
<quoted text>You don't understand any part of "...shall not be infringed."
You don't understand that the 2nd Amendment only applies to the federal government. It was only through some f'd up contorted rational that the SC in 2010 said the 14th amendment incorporates the 2nd amendment and applies it to states. I don't agree with that. If the 14th amendment intended to incorporate the language of the 2nd amendment would be in the 14th amendment. The SC uses all these goofy tests that they make up to see what articles of the constitution applies to the state or not. Once the test is made up in one situation, through precedent it gets applied in others ... the whole case law gets all f'd up. I think laws should be narrowly tailored according to intent, not take on a life of their own that no one ever intended they have.

So, if I were a judge, I would say the 2nd Amendment does not apply to states, because I don't feel that was the intent of the 14th amendment.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#92327 Oct 4, 2013
Toj wrote:
Let's start with WEEKEND PLANS people. Red isn't around to prompt that.
Tonight: Just me and Nunu, hanging out. Lulu has a pizza party to go to.

Sat: Prep for Lulu's 8th birthday party, which is going to be a pool party at our local YWCA in the evening. 20 wet kids. Yay!

Sun: I know I'm supposed to be doing something, but I can't quite remember what that is right now. I hope it's not too important...

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92328 Oct 4, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have a problem with Obamacare forbidding insurance company's from denying folks insurance for preexisting conditions. It's one of the few aspects I like.
People who cannot work, can go on disability and get medicare. If they can't qualify for disability, then they can work. Do you understand that?
Which is it then? Affordable Care Act can be good or it's evil?

You don't want it. You've been spouting against it for days. How would those people with pre-existing conditions get coverage if not for the Affordable Care Act?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92329 Oct 4, 2013
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
Tonight: Just me and Nunu, hanging out. Lulu has a pizza party to go to.
Sat: Prep for Lulu's 8th birthday party, which is going to be a pool party at our local YWCA in the evening. 20 wet kids. Yay!
Sun: I know I'm supposed to be doing something, but I can't quite remember what that is right now. I hope it's not too important...
I did pool parties for birthdays. They're fun.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92330 Oct 4, 2013
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure it does. They shouldn't have had those babies in the first place. <eyeroll>
That made me laugh!

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92331 Oct 4, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is it then? Affordable Care Act can be good or it's evil?
You don't want it. You've been spouting against it for days.
Oh, so now I have to be a partisan hack and deny that it has any aspect that I like?
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>How would those people with pre-existing conditions get coverage if not for the Affordable Care Act?
How? Easy. The democrats could have just as well passed the "Pre-existing Coverage Act" instead of the "Affordable Care Act." Did you really need me to explain that to you?

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92333 Oct 4, 2013
Err, that would be "Pre-Existing Condition Coverage Act."

I could have even wrote the bill for them, in probably two or three sentences, and I'm not even known for my brevity!!!

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#92334 Oct 4, 2013
Toj wrote:
Hey, who saw the flap with Sinead and Miley Cyrus. And does anyone else think Miley Cyrus is getting even more irritating?
She is - and I didn't think that wa possible! It's a shame. She had a lot of potential and she's just going the way of the typical Disney child star.

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