“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#91573 Sep 17, 2013
OT.

I had to go to a State of Illinois website this afternoon, one that I visit with some regularity and which is, for me, password protected.

Under the box where I choose what I am looking for, there is a drop down box for choice of language.

For reasons buried deep in my unconscious, I clicked that box.

My language choices include
1. Simplified Chinese
2. Russian
3. Polish
4. Spanish
5. Maltese**
6. Klingon

I spent the next half hour trying to find a human to report that either we have a real joker in state government(Hah!) or the site has been hacked.

** I had to look this one up.It is a Semitic language derived from Siculo-Arabic (and is NOT an Indo-European language); however a majority of vocabulary comes from Sicilian and Italian.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#91574 Sep 17, 2013
Here's the thing. The very poorest people live in the most dangerous neighborhoods. How do you think people in these neighborhoods will get decent schooling, housing and food?

The parents do not know any better b/c they've lived in that all their lives. They most likely had addicted or abusive parents as well as little or no education.

So the cycle continues.

Yes, there are people that have broken the cycle but I believe they are the exception.

Somehow this country has to give these people a hand up and pointing fingers isn't going to do it.

I wish I had the answer as to how but I don't.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91575 Sep 17, 2013
PEllen wrote:
OT.
I had to go to a State of Illinois website this afternoon, one that I visit with some regularity and which is, for me, password protected.
Under the box where I choose what I am looking for, there is a drop down box for choice of language.
For reasons buried deep in my unconscious, I clicked that box.
My language choices include
1. Simplified Chinese
2. Russian
3. Polish
4. Spanish
5. Maltese**
6. Klingon
I spent the next half hour trying to find a human to report that either we have a real joker in state government(Hah!) or the site has been hacked.
** I had to look this one up.It is a Semitic language derived from Siculo-Arabic (and is NOT an Indo-European language); however a majority of vocabulary comes from Sicilian and Italian.
Wow. I snickered at "Klingon!"

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91576 Sep 17, 2013
I think welfare (AFDC -- Aid to Families with Dependent Children) had good intentions, it's created a few generations of entitlement with no sense of setting goals for their future or improving themselves.

We also have sent a whole chunk of society a message that fathers are unimportant and unnecessary in the lives of the children they create. Why keep the man around? THe government will give you a check! WHy stick around to raise your kids? They'll eat whether you give money to their mom or not.

I shop at a pretty ghetto grocery store and I see people using food stamps, including a family with FIVE kids and all five had blue tooth ear devices on them. WTH?

I don't think we can abolish that program and expect them to all of a sudden *perform* to our expectations. But something has to be done. We're not doing them any favors by letting them set the bar so low for their standard of living, and so long as they meet that low bar, it's all good.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#91577 Sep 17, 2013
Not for nothing but that girl in Pakistan got half her head blown off just for going to school, and she is thriving.
If she can do it, how hard can it be for the kids in chicago who have cops escorting them to school every day? I aint saying its easy for them, but there are millions of kids who have it worse and manage to succeed.
Toj wrote:
Here's the thing. The very poorest people live in the most dangerous neighborhoods. How do you think people in these neighborhoods will get decent schooling, housing and food?
The parents do not know any better b/c they've lived in that all their lives. They most likely had addicted or abusive parents as well as little or no education.
So the cycle continues.
Yes, there are people that have broken the cycle but I believe they are the exception.
Somehow this country has to give these people a hand up and pointing fingers isn't going to do it.
I wish I had the answer as to how but I don't.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91578 Sep 17, 2013
PE, check out the adorable pic of Katey Sagal from wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katey_Sagal

I know her blues album came out to very good critical reviews. Have you even heard it? I should check it out on itunes.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#91579 Sep 17, 2013
Toj wrote:
Here's the thing. The very poorest people live in the most dangerous neighborhoods. How do you think people in these neighborhoods will get decent schooling, housing and food?
The parents do not know any better b/c they've lived in that all their lives. They most likely had addicted or abusive parents as well as little or no education.
So the cycle continues.
Yes, there are people that have broken the cycle but I believe they are the exception.
Somehow this country has to give these people a hand up and pointing fingers isn't going to do it.
I wish I had the answer as to how but I don't.
The problem is that the government DOES give them a hand up, but often it is TREATED as a hand out. Again, like I said earlier about education: the poorest people have the best shot at getting a higher education. There is decent schooling available at the lower level schools, but that doesn't mean it's taken advantage of. Again: Back to parenting. A lot of times the parents don't get involved and take advantage of what is there to help raise their kids to the next level. Combine that with the fact that the kids don't learn to respect authority, and it's a real mess. It also ruins it for the rest of the kids. If you want your kid to do better, you'll figure out how, now matter what you were raised in. I have friends that refused to smoke BECAUSE everyone smoked around them their whole life. They didn't simply do it because that's all they knew. You see how the rest of the world is and make choices.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91580 Sep 17, 2013
RACE wrote:
Not for nothing but that girl in Pakistan got half her head blown off just for going to school, and she is thriving.
If she can do it, how hard can it be for the kids in chicago who have cops escorting them to school every day? I aint saying its easy for them, but there are millions of kids who have it worse and manage to succeed.
<quoted text>
No, "millions of kids" are NOT succeeding.

And those that do typically have parents who value education as the best/fastest way to get out of the cycle of poverty, and they PUSH their kids to get educated. That does not happen to the same degree in many of the poor communities in the U.S.

Kids end up paying the price for their parents' poor decisions.

And if it were that easy to rise above one's lousy circumstances and achieve, MORE WOULD DO IT.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#91581 Sep 17, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
PE, check out the adorable pic of Katey Sagal from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katey_Sagal
I know her blues album came out to very good critical reviews. Have you even heard it? I should check it out on itunes.
Now I remember her twin sisters - I used to love that show Double Trouble!

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91582 Sep 17, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Now I remember her twin sisters - I used to love that show Double Trouble!
I have no idea what that show is or who her sisters are! Googling some more!

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#91583 Sep 17, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
While you have a VERY valid argument and I don't disagree with your point, it circles back to Sublime's argument of the root problem of parenting, schooling, etc. Maybe the kids would be able to focus more and stay on the right track even in a bad neighborhood if their parents would break the cycle and be better role models, choose not have several kid with absent fathers, get an education, etc. There are people that have broken that cycle before. They have to make that choice to break it, though. And a kid from that background probably has a better shot at college right now (if they work hard in school) then, say, I did at that age. They will be eligible for scholarships and grants that most would never get. My parents couldn't afford to send me to school, either. But I also wasn't eligible for very many scholarships or grants because of where I grew up.
So, I am not going to say it's EASY to break the cycle of generations of poor choices, but that's what needs to be done and, again, like Sublime says, it starts with the family.
ITA
A friend of mine grew up in North Minneapolis...not the southside of Chicago, but still pretty ugly. His parents stressed education and living within the law CONSTANTLY, and he did well in school, went to college and is now very successful in his career. His siblings also did better than the average for their neighborhood, although not as well as him. He and his family now live in a nice suburb while pretty much everyone else in the family has stayed in the old neighborhood. His kids have had great experiences in school while his nieces and nephews have really had to struggle, because of their peers. If they dress decently and participate in class, they are ridiculed for "acting white". Speaking English correctly is "talking white". Everything they do to better themselves or their community is treated as a betrayal of "their people".
I'm not excusing anyone for their negative stereotypes and racism. I am just saying that you don't change anyone's mind by doing all the things they accuse you of doing.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91584 Sep 17, 2013
Okay, their faces are VERY familiar, but I don't think I watched that show back in HS.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#91585 Sep 17, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I think welfare (AFDC -- Aid to Families with Dependent Children) had good intentions, it's created a few generations of entitlement with no sense of setting goals for their future or improving themselves.
We also have sent a whole chunk of society a message that fathers are unimportant and unnecessary in the lives of the children they create. Why keep the man around? THe government will give you a check! WHy stick around to raise your kids? They'll eat whether you give money to their mom or not.
I shop at a pretty ghetto grocery store and I see people using food stamps, including a family with FIVE kids and all five had blue tooth ear devices on them. WTH?
I don't think we can abolish that program and expect them to all of a sudden *perform* to our expectations. But something has to be done. We're not doing them any favors by letting them set the bar so low for their standard of living, and so long as they meet that low bar, it's all good.
Yeah, I got really bummed at a car place in the spring. There was a young gal there (maybe young 20s) that seemed very nice. We chatted awhile. She had lots of gold on, perfectly manicured hands and toes, a Coach bag, Aeropostale shirt, I forget what brand shoes and jeans (but nothing cheap). She was telling me how her baby daddy's (note: her phrase, not mine) new girlfriend put sugar in her gas tank. She also told me about her food stamps.

I looked down at my chipped nails, my Fashion Bug shorts and Wal-Mart shirt, my Payless shoes and my Target pocketbook and really felt like I am doing something really wrong. At least I didn't have sugar in my gas tank, I guess.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#91586 Sep 17, 2013
Yes, millions of kids are. I was speaking globally. And when you consider what some other kids have to do to get to a school, and what that school actually is, you have to wonder why the kids in the US are doing so poorly.
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
No, "millions of kids" are NOT succeeding.
And those that do typically have parents who value education as the best/fastest way to get out of the cycle of poverty, and they PUSH their kids to get educated. That does not happen to the same degree in many of the poor communities in the U.S.
Kids end up paying the price for their parents' poor decisions.
And if it were that easy to rise above one's lousy circumstances and achieve, MORE WOULD DO IT.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#91587 Sep 17, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
Okay, their faces are VERY familiar, but I don't think I watched that show back in HS.
was in middle school, so I did!

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#91588 Sep 17, 2013
And we arrive at the core of the problem...
"Their people"
itser wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking English correctly is "talking white". Everything they do to better themselves or their community is treated as a betrayal of "their people".

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91589 Sep 17, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I got really bummed at a car place in the spring. There was a young gal there (maybe young 20s) that seemed very nice. We chatted awhile. She had lots of gold on, perfectly manicured hands and toes, a Coach bag, Aeropostale shirt, I forget what brand shoes and jeans (but nothing cheap). She was telling me how her baby daddy's (note: her phrase, not mine) new girlfriend put sugar in her gas tank. She also told me about her food stamps.
I looked down at my chipped nails, my Fashion Bug shorts and Wal-Mart shirt, my Payless shoes and my Target pocketbook and really felt like I am doing something really wrong. At least I didn't have sugar in my gas tank, I guess.
Years ago I was listening to a black radio host talking about this. He was focused more on the poor black community, but his comments could apply to poor whites as well. He said that because they see the bigger goals -- house, college education -- unattainable, they don't even bother trying. So they spend their disposable income on stupid, flashy things, like grills for their teeth, gold jewelry, electronics, soupin' up their cars, etc. Low income people often don't have the financial know-how/education to see the wisdom in setting aside one's wants in order to work toward a bigger goal. So because they see it as futile, they give up and just have fun with their money.

This guy was working to go into the inner cities and poor communities to educate them as to their *choices* with their money. And he said it wasn't just low income people making these kinds of choices -- middle class blacks were guilty of it, too.

Interesting stuff. He had a degree of sympathy and understanding, because he'd heard their stories, but he also felt like, "Come on, people, there are things available to you if only you want them badly enough."

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#91590 Sep 17, 2013
RACE wrote:
Not for nothing but that girl in Pakistan got half her head blown off just for going to school, and she is thriving.
If she can do it, how hard can it be for the kids in chicago who have cops escorting them to school every day? I aint saying its easy for them, but there are millions of kids who have it worse and manage to succeed.
<quoted text>
That's one girl. How many in Pakistan gave up? Plenty in Chicago have thrived as well. That does not mean everyone will under those circumstances. Cops are not escorting all the kids. The hire people at $10 an hour and that is not all kids in all schools. There is a program called "Safe Passage".(Link: http://www.cps.edu/Pages/safepassage.aspx )

Some people get shot and don't die. Doesn't mean they all live. Some people have the best education, awesome parents and commit henious crimes.

I'm not a fan of the logic b/c one did it, everyone should have no problem doing it.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91591 Sep 17, 2013
The other part of it is, if everyone around you -- your neighbors, your friends, your siblings, your cousins, your aunts and uncles, live a certain way, it's good enough for you, too. Who's going to shame you for not owning a house if no one else you know owns a house?

And a bigger part: People will see someone's different choices as a judgment on them, so then they will tear down that person for trying to go back to school, or get a better job. "You think you're better than us? You think this apartment isn't good enough for you but it's good enough for the rest of us?" We saw that in the United Way program I belonged to, where they teamed several professionals with a low-income single parent in public housing to provide moral support that they weren't getting from their own friends and family.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#91592 Sep 17, 2013
Pakistan (since Race mentioned a Pakistan student):

(first the link:http://beta.dawn.com/news /1021255/out-of-school-childre n-pakistan-ranks-second-in-the -world)

"In its annual report titled ‘The state of Pakistan’s children 2012’, the Society for the Protection of the Rights of the Child (Sparc) said about one fourth of the 19.75 million children in Pakistan aged five to nine were out of school and factoring in adolescents increased the number to 25 million. Of them, seven million children (aged three to five) had yet to receive primary schooling.

"Pakistan has the lowest youth literacy rate with 70.7pc. Only 61pc of girls are literate as compared to 79pc boys in the age group of 15-24 years."

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