Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#91563 Sep 17, 2013
squishymama wrote:
Maybe because I'm not reading too much about this naval yard shooter, but I'm not seeing this as a black/white thing. This kind of workplace shooting/mass shooting rarely seems to be about race. After all, these people are f*cking crazy and crazy comes in all colors.
The story that I do think is about race is about this young black guy killed (shot 10 times) in NC by a cop. I believe that if you inserted a white guy into the same set of circumstances, no way would he have ended up dead, shot 10 times.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/family-man-shot-...
I don't think the shooting was race-based at all. But the media coverage certainly is. The story that someone posted earlier contains 2 pictures of the one black victim, as well as 1 of his widow. It has 1 picture of one of the 11 white victims.
The story you linked said that 4 other people have been shot and killed by officers of that department in less than 2 years. Were they all black? I haven't found any article that gives any details about the previous shootings, so I['m curious.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#91564 Sep 17, 2013
RACE wrote:
just because their a minority and did not bother to finish school and compete honestly.
Bleh!
<quoted text>
No, but you see, Race, what you are failing to appreciate is that their, great, great, great grandpa was a slave and their grandpa had a dog and fire hose set upon them. This is why they didn't finish school, and how could they be expected to finish school? You can't finish school when you have family history like that. Duh!

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#91565 Sep 17, 2013
itser wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think the shooting was race-based at all. But the media coverage certainly is. The story that someone posted earlier contains 2 pictures of the one black victim, as well as 1 of his widow. It has 1 picture of one of the 11 white victims.
The story you linked said that 4 other people have been shot and killed by officers of that department in less than 2 years. Were they all black? I haven't found any article that gives any details about the previous shootings, so I['m curious.
July 2012
http://www.qcitymetro.com/news/articles/cmpd_...

June 2013
http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/cha...

But no pic of the victim.

That was all I could quickly find. Gotta go back to work!

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#91566 Sep 17, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
If I'm white, made a poor choice, and shot off my own foot and now I am in a race and have to hop around the track on one foot, it really doesn't matter if the official judging the race is racist towards white people. I'm not going to be able to compete against folks who haven't shot their foot off.
This is is an indisputable fact
But no matter if you believe it or not, the majority of black kids start off in this little footrace of yours at least a lap behind white kids. Emotionally, mentally, the white kid who grew up in a normal neighborhood where he could, yanno, play in his yard or ride his bike to the store without being shot at or assaulted by gangbangers because he won't join is going to have an advantage in his adult life. There are kids on the south and west side of chicago who cannot go outside and play like normal children are supposed to do, they cannot walk to school without fear of being shot at. You really think that they are going to be able to concentrate in school when they're worried about making it home alive? They basically live in a war zone and will not be able to compete with children who are living a normal life. That you think you can compare them to your children (or mine) is troubling to me.

I already know that you're going to rip me for my stoopid liberal views, but just because you type faster and are probably smarter than I am, does not always make you right.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#91567 Sep 17, 2013
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
But no matter if you believe it or not, the majority of black kids start off in this little footrace of yours at least a lap behind white kids. Emotionally, mentally, the white kid who grew up in a normal neighborhood where he could, yanno, play in his yard or ride his bike to the store without being shot at or assaulted by gangbangers because he won't join is going to have an advantage in his adult life. There are kids on the south and west side of chicago who cannot go outside and play like normal children are supposed to do, they cannot walk to school without fear of being shot at. You really think that they are going to be able to concentrate in school when they're worried about making it home alive? They basically live in a war zone and will not be able to compete with children who are living a normal life. That you think you can compare them to your children (or mine) is troubling to me.
I already know that you're going to rip me for my stoopid liberal views, but just because you type faster and are probably smarter than I am, does not always make you right.
Squishy-
How do you account for the white kids who grew up under similar conditions?
One possibility is that they have drop out and crime rate the same as black kids but because they are a smaller segment of a big group, we don't " see" them statistically. That brings up other issues like, what if this is a social , parental involvement , income based issue rather than race.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#91568 Sep 17, 2013
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
But no matter if you believe it or not, the majority of black kids start off in this little footrace of yours at least a lap behind white kids. Emotionally, mentally, the white kid who grew up in a normal neighborhood where he could, yanno, play in his yard or ride his bike to the store without being shot at or assaulted by gangbangers because he won't join is going to have an advantage in his adult life. There are kids on the south and west side of chicago who cannot go outside and play like normal children are supposed to do, they cannot walk to school without fear of being shot at. You really think that they are going to be able to concentrate in school when they're worried about making it home alive? They basically live in a war zone and will not be able to compete with children who are living a normal life. That you think you can compare them to your children (or mine) is troubling to me.
I already know that you're going to rip me for my stoopid liberal views, but just because you type faster and are probably smarter than I am, does not always make you right.
Q: Who do these black kids on the south and west sides live by and who causes their neighborhoods to be so unsafe?

A: Itís black people.

It really is not white peopleís fault or societyís fault that poor black people canít live by each other, without killing each other, robbing each other, and generating all the other adverse consequences that arise when you put them together.

There is no other race in this country, when you stick them together and they are poor, who fail as miserably. Not even close. This has been going on for more than a few generations too. This isnít like, oh, the first generation and maybe the second will have it rough and make sacrifices so that subsequent generations can do better, like EVERY OTHER GROUP IN THIS COUNTRY HAS DONE.

There is a problem and it is within these communities. We need to address that if you want to do something about it.
Obvious guy

Roselle, IL

#91569 Sep 17, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Q: Who do these black kids on the south and west sides live by and who causes their neighborhoods to be so unsafe?
A: Itís black people.
It really is not white peopleís fault or societyís fault that poor black people canít live by each other, without killing each other, robbing each other, and generating all the other adverse consequences that arise when you put them together.
There is no other race in this country, when you stick them together and they are poor, who fail as miserably. Not even close. This has been going on for more than a few generations too. This isnít like, oh, the first generation and maybe the second will have it rough and make sacrifices so that subsequent generations can do better, like EVERY OTHER GROUP IN THIS COUNTRY HAS DONE.
There is a problem and it is within these communities. We need to address that if you want to do something about it.
He's not smarter than you, Squishy. This^^^ proves that.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#91571 Sep 17, 2013
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
But no matter if you believe it or not, the majority of black kids start off in this little footrace of yours at least a lap behind white kids. Emotionally, mentally, the white kid who grew up in a normal neighborhood where he could, yanno, play in his yard or ride his bike to the store without being shot at or assaulted by gangbangers because he won't join is going to have an advantage in his adult life. There are kids on the south and west side of chicago who cannot go outside and play like normal children are supposed to do, they cannot walk to school without fear of being shot at. You really think that they are going to be able to concentrate in school when they're worried about making it home alive? They basically live in a war zone and will not be able to compete with children who are living a normal life. That you think you can compare them to your children (or mine) is troubling to me.
I already know that you're going to rip me for my stoopid liberal views, but just because you type faster and are probably smarter than I am, does not always make you right.
While you have a VERY valid argument and I don't disagree with your point, it circles back to Sublime's argument of the root problem of parenting, schooling, etc. Maybe the kids would be able to focus more and stay on the right track even in a bad neighborhood if their parents would break the cycle and be better role models, choose not have several kid with absent fathers, get an education, etc. There are people that have broken that cycle before. They have to make that choice to break it, though. And a kid from that background probably has a better shot at college right now (if they work hard in school) then, say, I did at that age. They will be eligible for scholarships and grants that most would never get. My parents couldn't afford to send me to school, either. But I also wasn't eligible for very many scholarships or grants because of where I grew up.

So, I am not going to say it's EASY to break the cycle of generations of poor choices, but that's what needs to be done and, again, like Sublime says, it starts with the family.

Since: Mar 09

West Palm Beach, FL

#91572 Sep 17, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
While you have a VERY valid argument and I don't disagree with your point, it circles back to Sublime's argument of the root problem of parenting, schooling, etc. Maybe the kids would be able to focus more and stay on the right track even in a bad neighborhood if their parents would break the cycle and be better role models, choose not have several kid with absent fathers, get an education, etc. There are people that have broken that cycle before. They have to make that choice to break it, though. And a kid from that background probably has a better shot at college right now (if they work hard in school) then, say, I did at that age. They will be eligible for scholarships and grants that most would never get. My parents couldn't afford to send me to school, either. But I also wasn't eligible for very many scholarships or grants because of where I grew up.
So, I am not going to say it's EASY to break the cycle of generations of poor choices, but that's what needs to be done and, again, like Sublime says, it starts with the family.
Very well said.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#91573 Sep 17, 2013
OT.

I had to go to a State of Illinois website this afternoon, one that I visit with some regularity and which is, for me, password protected.

Under the box where I choose what I am looking for, there is a drop down box for choice of language.

For reasons buried deep in my unconscious, I clicked that box.

My language choices include
1. Simplified Chinese
2. Russian
3. Polish
4. Spanish
5. Maltese**
6. Klingon

I spent the next half hour trying to find a human to report that either we have a real joker in state government(Hah!) or the site has been hacked.

** I had to look this one up.It is a Semitic language derived from Siculo-Arabic (and is NOT an Indo-European language); however a majority of vocabulary comes from Sicilian and Italian.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#91574 Sep 17, 2013
Here's the thing. The very poorest people live in the most dangerous neighborhoods. How do you think people in these neighborhoods will get decent schooling, housing and food?

The parents do not know any better b/c they've lived in that all their lives. They most likely had addicted or abusive parents as well as little or no education.

So the cycle continues.

Yes, there are people that have broken the cycle but I believe they are the exception.

Somehow this country has to give these people a hand up and pointing fingers isn't going to do it.

I wish I had the answer as to how but I don't.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91575 Sep 17, 2013
PEllen wrote:
OT.
I had to go to a State of Illinois website this afternoon, one that I visit with some regularity and which is, for me, password protected.
Under the box where I choose what I am looking for, there is a drop down box for choice of language.
For reasons buried deep in my unconscious, I clicked that box.
My language choices include
1. Simplified Chinese
2. Russian
3. Polish
4. Spanish
5. Maltese**
6. Klingon
I spent the next half hour trying to find a human to report that either we have a real joker in state government(Hah!) or the site has been hacked.
** I had to look this one up.It is a Semitic language derived from Siculo-Arabic (and is NOT an Indo-European language); however a majority of vocabulary comes from Sicilian and Italian.
Wow. I snickered at "Klingon!"

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91576 Sep 17, 2013
I think welfare (AFDC -- Aid to Families with Dependent Children) had good intentions, it's created a few generations of entitlement with no sense of setting goals for their future or improving themselves.

We also have sent a whole chunk of society a message that fathers are unimportant and unnecessary in the lives of the children they create. Why keep the man around? THe government will give you a check! WHy stick around to raise your kids? They'll eat whether you give money to their mom or not.

I shop at a pretty ghetto grocery store and I see people using food stamps, including a family with FIVE kids and all five had blue tooth ear devices on them. WTH?

I don't think we can abolish that program and expect them to all of a sudden *perform* to our expectations. But something has to be done. We're not doing them any favors by letting them set the bar so low for their standard of living, and so long as they meet that low bar, it's all good.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#91577 Sep 17, 2013
Not for nothing but that girl in Pakistan got half her head blown off just for going to school, and she is thriving.
If she can do it, how hard can it be for the kids in chicago who have cops escorting them to school every day? I aint saying its easy for them, but there are millions of kids who have it worse and manage to succeed.
Toj wrote:
Here's the thing. The very poorest people live in the most dangerous neighborhoods. How do you think people in these neighborhoods will get decent schooling, housing and food?
The parents do not know any better b/c they've lived in that all their lives. They most likely had addicted or abusive parents as well as little or no education.
So the cycle continues.
Yes, there are people that have broken the cycle but I believe they are the exception.
Somehow this country has to give these people a hand up and pointing fingers isn't going to do it.
I wish I had the answer as to how but I don't.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91578 Sep 17, 2013
PE, check out the adorable pic of Katey Sagal from wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katey_Sagal

I know her blues album came out to very good critical reviews. Have you even heard it? I should check it out on itunes.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#91579 Sep 17, 2013
Toj wrote:
Here's the thing. The very poorest people live in the most dangerous neighborhoods. How do you think people in these neighborhoods will get decent schooling, housing and food?
The parents do not know any better b/c they've lived in that all their lives. They most likely had addicted or abusive parents as well as little or no education.
So the cycle continues.
Yes, there are people that have broken the cycle but I believe they are the exception.
Somehow this country has to give these people a hand up and pointing fingers isn't going to do it.
I wish I had the answer as to how but I don't.
The problem is that the government DOES give them a hand up, but often it is TREATED as a hand out. Again, like I said earlier about education: the poorest people have the best shot at getting a higher education. There is decent schooling available at the lower level schools, but that doesn't mean it's taken advantage of. Again: Back to parenting. A lot of times the parents don't get involved and take advantage of what is there to help raise their kids to the next level. Combine that with the fact that the kids don't learn to respect authority, and it's a real mess. It also ruins it for the rest of the kids. If you want your kid to do better, you'll figure out how, now matter what you were raised in. I have friends that refused to smoke BECAUSE everyone smoked around them their whole life. They didn't simply do it because that's all they knew. You see how the rest of the world is and make choices.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91580 Sep 17, 2013
RACE wrote:
Not for nothing but that girl in Pakistan got half her head blown off just for going to school, and she is thriving.
If she can do it, how hard can it be for the kids in chicago who have cops escorting them to school every day? I aint saying its easy for them, but there are millions of kids who have it worse and manage to succeed.
<quoted text>
No, "millions of kids" are NOT succeeding.

And those that do typically have parents who value education as the best/fastest way to get out of the cycle of poverty, and they PUSH their kids to get educated. That does not happen to the same degree in many of the poor communities in the U.S.

Kids end up paying the price for their parents' poor decisions.

And if it were that easy to rise above one's lousy circumstances and achieve, MORE WOULD DO IT.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#91581 Sep 17, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
PE, check out the adorable pic of Katey Sagal from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katey_Sagal
I know her blues album came out to very good critical reviews. Have you even heard it? I should check it out on itunes.
Now I remember her twin sisters - I used to love that show Double Trouble!

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#91582 Sep 17, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Now I remember her twin sisters - I used to love that show Double Trouble!
I have no idea what that show is or who her sisters are! Googling some more!

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#91583 Sep 17, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
While you have a VERY valid argument and I don't disagree with your point, it circles back to Sublime's argument of the root problem of parenting, schooling, etc. Maybe the kids would be able to focus more and stay on the right track even in a bad neighborhood if their parents would break the cycle and be better role models, choose not have several kid with absent fathers, get an education, etc. There are people that have broken that cycle before. They have to make that choice to break it, though. And a kid from that background probably has a better shot at college right now (if they work hard in school) then, say, I did at that age. They will be eligible for scholarships and grants that most would never get. My parents couldn't afford to send me to school, either. But I also wasn't eligible for very many scholarships or grants because of where I grew up.
So, I am not going to say it's EASY to break the cycle of generations of poor choices, but that's what needs to be done and, again, like Sublime says, it starts with the family.
ITA
A friend of mine grew up in North Minneapolis...not the southside of Chicago, but still pretty ugly. His parents stressed education and living within the law CONSTANTLY, and he did well in school, went to college and is now very successful in his career. His siblings also did better than the average for their neighborhood, although not as well as him. He and his family now live in a nice suburb while pretty much everyone else in the family has stayed in the old neighborhood. His kids have had great experiences in school while his nieces and nephews have really had to struggle, because of their peers. If they dress decently and participate in class, they are ridiculed for "acting white". Speaking English correctly is "talking white". Everything they do to better themselves or their community is treated as a betrayal of "their people".
I'm not excusing anyone for their negative stereotypes and racism. I am just saying that you don't change anyone's mind by doing all the things they accuse you of doing.

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