“Non mollare mai”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#90393 Aug 27, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I respect other people's right to believe what they wish (was out to breakfast on a trip a few weeks ago and one of the guys asked to say a grace before we ate, which was fine with me ... I'm not militant about it), but if folks are going to spout off about how wise they are as believers or project an air of superiority for being "god fearing," I think it's fair game to respond.
Remember this, Sublime? Your words. It goes both ways, and at this point, you are not just responding, you are acting like anyone who believes other than what you do is a complete imbecile.

I believe in God. Can I prove He exists? Nope. Can you prove He doesn't? Nope. So, why the shouting match? It's all a matter of opinion. I no longer ascribe to any specific religion, because I don't believe in what I call "man made" rules. But I still have faith. I might be wrong. You might be wrong. In the end, most religions have one thing in common...love one another. That's not such a bad mantra.
transportation

La Grange, IL

#90394 Aug 27, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Grew up with a kid in Park Forest, whose dad was a manager at the Conrad Hilton...He told us about the Weathermen renting a suite, then starting a bonfire on this uber expensive persian rug and dropping paper bags of feces from their window onto the cops.....I handed out literature for Robert Kennedy, that summer...i was 16....Really hurt, when he was killed....
That was an interesting segway!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#90395 Aug 27, 2013
transportation wrote:
<quoted text>That was an interesting segway!
Yeah,i guess...I'm already on too many combat threads...lol...People get much more brave, than real life...from the safety of their anonymous keyboards...lol...

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90396 Aug 27, 2013
dahgts wrote:
<quoted text>
cannot say this enough. he's so wrong in so many ways.
by the way, thanks for the refresher course about the vietnam war. I was in my 20's and knew it was so wrong. wanted to go downtown during the dnc but had two little ones to deal with.
husband worked there at night so experienced the mayhem.
The 60s man...any ONE of the things that happened during that decade would have been huge, but all of it happening in one 10 year period? Glad I was just a little kid.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90397 Aug 27, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ask any 3rd grader why you wash your hands and what can happen if you don't. Ask grown men from 2000 years ago why folks get sick and they would blame it on an invisible man in the sky ... Nuff said.
Exactly. They had no concept of micro organisms. Most people never traveled more than (at the MOST) a couple miles from where they were born. MOST people had no education whatsoever. There were an elite few; scribes and such, but the vast majority of people spent their lives surviving. If something worked (seeds in ground example) they just kept doing it without understanding why it worked or in fact how to make it work better/produce more, etc., etc., etc.

Also, we have 2000 more years worth of human experience to draw from. So the collective knowledge of humankind thing supports your position. Of course you do realize you're arguing with someone who has a collection of tin foil hats right?

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90398 Aug 27, 2013
-CatCiao- wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember this, Sublime? Your words. It goes both ways, and at this point, you are not just responding, you are acting like anyone who believes other than what you do is a complete imbecile.
I believe in God. Can I prove He exists? Nope. Can you prove He doesn't? Nope. So, why the shouting match? It's all a matter of opinion. I no longer ascribe to any specific religion, because I don't believe in what I call "man made" rules. But I still have faith. I might be wrong. You might be wrong. In the end, most religions have one thing in common...love one another. That's not such a bad mantra.
It not so much that you believe. You have faith, and if you try to live what you say you believe, awesome. I wouldn't even ask you to prove it, unless, like the mutt, you try to force someone else to believe because you say so.

He is emphatic that god is a real tangible thing and anyone who doesn't believe it is wrong. Ok, if I'm wrong, show me some proof. Don't say I believe therefore god...that's belief, not proof. Mutt is trying to say that belief=proof. Sub is saying that if one makes an extraordinary claim, and make no mistake an omniscient creator of the universe who knows all that ever was and ever will be is an extraordinary claim, and one is going to insist that others believe it, then one needs to offer at least a *little* proof. Failure to offer proof does not disprove it, but belief does not *prove* it.

The concept of an Abrahamic god (or any god for that matter) is absurd to a lot of people. I do not believe. At all. Being scientifically minded however I am open to empirical proof. As yet none, zero, zilch, nada has been forthcoming. Ergo, until such time as it is presented, tested, and peer reviewed, I will continue to not believe. Mutt would try to force it on me because "look a puppy...therefore god."

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#90400 Aug 27, 2013
Whoever is judging cat negatively, should stop. She's a sweetie. I can vouch for that.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90401 Aug 27, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I am an atheist. It took me a long time to be able to say that, but I"ve been saying it about a year now.
I said "Agnostic" for a while because it seemed so arrogant to say in EITHER direction -- that you know there's a god or that there isn't.
But I realized over time that I"m not agnostic. I think for many atheists, agnosticism is a transition from when you were raised to believe in god and other similar stuff.
I think you're right. I never went through an agnostic period. I was about 11 or so when it occurred to me that the whole thing was unbelievable. No one I talked to, and I talked to all kinds of people for YEARS could offer me anything that made it any less unbelievable. Add to that my intense study and knowledge of history and it just became more and more absurd.

No god(s) is the null hypothesis. God(s) is the alternative hypothesis. To move from the null to the alternative requires evidence and testing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesis

"Just believe" never did anything for me. If that works then my question is if I "just believe" that I will win the lottery then it is true. Yeah, not so much.:-|

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#90402 Aug 27, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. They had no concept of micro organisms. Most people never traveled more than (at the MOST) a couple miles from where they were born. MOST people had no education whatsoever. There were an elite few; scribes and such, but the vast majority of people spent their lives surviving. If something worked (seeds in ground example) they just kept doing it without understanding why it worked or in fact how to make it work better/produce more, etc., etc., etc.
That's all true, and pointing that out doesn't mean you or I are haters. These are facts. For much of human history, the Taliban seem enlightened in comparison.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#90403 Aug 27, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. They had no concept of micro organisms. Most people never traveled more than (at the MOST) a couple miles from where they were born. MOST people had no education whatsoever. There were an elite few; scribes and such, but the vast majority of people spent their lives surviving. If something worked (seeds in ground example) they just kept doing it without understanding why it worked or in fact how to make it work better/produce more, etc., etc., etc.
?
This is a general question. Was Jesus literate?In what language?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#90404 Aug 27, 2013
This is over 1 hour long. I jumped thru it and watched pieces, but still probably watched a good 30 minutes.

This is pretty compelling.

Dad dropping kid off at mom's after visitation. Refused to get out of car. Mom ended up calling cops to try to get him out. Kid refused to go back into the house.

“Non mollare mai”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#90405 Aug 27, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
It not so much that you believe. You have faith, and if you try to live what you say you believe, awesome. I wouldn't even ask you to prove it, unless, like the mutt, you try to force someone else to believe because you say so.
He is emphatic that god is a real tangible thing and anyone who doesn't believe it is wrong. Ok, if I'm wrong, show me some proof. Don't say I believe therefore god...that's belief, not proof. Mutt is trying to say that belief=proof. Sub is saying that if one makes an extraordinary claim, and make no mistake an omniscient creator of the universe who knows all that ever was and ever will be is an extraordinary claim, and one is going to insist that others believe it, then one needs to offer at least a *little* proof. Failure to offer proof does not disprove it, but belief does not *prove* it.
The concept of an Abrahamic god (or any god for that matter) is absurd to a lot of people. I do not believe. At all. Being scientifically minded however I am open to empirical proof. As yet none, zero, zilch, nada has been forthcoming. Ergo, until such time as it is presented, tested, and peer reviewed, I will continue to not believe. Mutt would try to force it on me because "look a puppy...therefore god."
Hi Mimi. I can find no fault in anything you write, except I don't know edogg and can't speak for him/her. There is no empirical proof that there is a God of any kind. Even those who believe they have witnessed a miracle typically cannot disprove the medical (or other) theories proving a tangible reason for what they believe is a miracle.

Faith is based on the unknown and intangible, perceptions, emotions, interpretations and teachings. Some people believe they "see" images or visions and receive messages. Non believers may argue those are tricks played by the mind and our brain's ability to fill in blanks or provide explanation according to our beliefs and opinions. Again, impossible to prove or disprove.

For me, my religious and faith experiences are deeply personal, and I don't need anyone to understand them, nor do I feel the need to make others believe what I believe. I rarely talk about it to be honest. That is one of the great things about this country; we are not punished for our religious beliefs, or non-beliefs, if you will. Love one another...that should be enough.

Did that sound really sappy? lol. Ah well, it's late, that's my excuse.

“Non mollare mai”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#90406 Aug 27, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
Whoever is judging cat negatively, should stop. She's a sweetie. I can vouch for that.
Thank you Sublime, I appreciate that. I didn't even notice the judgeits. I rarely look at them :)

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90407 Aug 27, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a general question. Was Jesus literate?In what language?
Let's say we agree that there was in fact an historical Jesus (the one from the bible that Christians call the son of god...there were lots of people with that name and to forestall the mutt I want to be clear to whom I refer) because there is some debate and not much archaeological evidence.

The bible (NT to be clear) says that he was educated in the Torah. It says that he read the Hebrew texts in the bible. He is said to have sat in the temple in Jerusalem debating the Torah with the priests. If all of this is true, then yes he would have been literate otherwise he could not have read the Torah or bible.

Which language is another issue. If he read Hebrew texts then he would have been literate in Hebrew which was lashon ha-kodesh (sacred language of the Torah), but Judea was a cosmopolitan place and Aramaic was a main language, ergo one would think he would be at least conversant in Aramaic, probably fluent.

Also, Latin and Greek were very well represented in the region along with a number of less famous dialects. It's highly unlikely that a person of that time would have been literate in even one language much less many of them so if I had to choose, my best hypothesis would be Hebrew.

Of course if he was "god-in-human-form". ..he would be literate in all languages, so there's that.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90408 Aug 27, 2013
-CatCiao- wrote:
<quoted text>

For me, my religious and faith experiences are deeply personal, and I don't need anyone to understand them, nor do I feel the need to make others believe what I believe. I rarely talk about it to be honest.
Nice to meet you! I am really worn out lately by people trying to push a (any) religiou agenda on me so it's really nice to meet someone who simply believes and keeps it personal. That's the thing about it for me; faith/lack of faith is personal and I so wish people on all sides would keep it that way. Unfortunately, they usually don't and they are always trying to "save" me which is why I usually keep things private too unless there's some reason to tell.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90409 Aug 28, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
like the mutt, you try to force someone else to believe because you say so... Mutt would try to force it on me because
When and how have I ever "forced" you to believe because I said so?

Never.

You're pulling sht out of your @zz. Again.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90410 Aug 28, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
It's the same flawed logic, asking me to prove the nonexistence of the absurd and submitting that since I can't go back in time and unproven something that is absurd it is reasonable to conclude that the absurd exists. It would be like you submitting than men 2000 years ago knew how to construct Kevlar armor or build the space shuttle, and then when I can't go back in time and prove this, submitting that it's logical to conclude that they actually did know how to construct Kevlar armor and build the space shuttle, even though there is not one iota of proof to support such a ridiculous contention.

You obviously don't understand the point of Russell's teapot, then. The point is, if someone is going to suggest something absurd exists, like an invisible omnipresent being who controls everything that happens on the earth, the burden should be on them to show at the very least a modicum of proof that it exists. To adopt a logic that is contrary to this results in the the situation I proposed, where it suddenly becomes logical to believe there is a unicorn/dragon hybrid in the center of the earth, because after all, you can't prove that there is not!
There's that irony again.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90411 Aug 28, 2013

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#90412 Aug 28, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah....Newsroom is the best new show in years, this season should be even better, since we know who everyone is now....lol...If you get HBO, checkout, Boardwalk Empire....it's kinda unique, fascinating about bootlegging in the 20's....Steve Buscemi is a great actor, i think....
If Buscemi were a good-looking guy, I think his career would have been bigger. But I think he might have been less memorable. I love him as a character actor. He was great in "Fargo."

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#90413 Aug 28, 2013
What day is it? What DAY is IT? Happy Hump Day!(I admit, I like the camel commercial.)

Tonight: Clean out my car and trunk (during summer softball season, it just becomes a huge dumping ground). We're taking it to the cabin with the boys tomorrow night.(My car's trunk is crazy huge.)

Thursday: Pretend to work all day, then go home and head to Nick's, then to the cabin. For Four days with 11 people I"m not related to.

Last night, our ump asked me to sign up to be an ump for Minneapolis parks and rec!

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