Topix Chitown Regulars

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90148 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
What was Eisenhower's involvement? My personal recollection is that the US did not start sending advisers over there until 62 or so. I had friends whose older brothers were advisers.
I'd have to go look it up, but as I recall, we were already sending advisors...very few of them...and way way way quietly as early as '56.

Eisenhower effectively stayed out of it but IIRC the US part in it was primarily paying France to stay there and deal with it. It was still French Indochina. We were propping up the French.. The French wanted either the old colonialism or they wanted out.

If they left and no one stepped in, what became S. Vietnam (because it wasn't really a nation as such...more like districts or provinces) would have been taken over by N.Vietnam. It would have been the one single Vietnam that HCM wanted (and that it became anyway).

Also, remember the whole anti-communist hysteria here at that time, Mc Carthy, et.al., and they were all convinced that if Vietnam fell, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand,-you know, the "domino effect"- and the USSR would step in to spread communism across the world through SE Asia, across the Pacific and right on to Main Street, USA.

Also remember that I only paid as much attention to that class as I needed to in order to get my A. I only heard about 2/3 of whatever he said. <shrug>

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#90149 Aug 24, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that's what epi-pens are for.
You don't just use the epi-pen. You use the epi-pen then you immediately have to go to the hospital. The epi-pen isn't a cure all and the dosage may not be enough. Therefore, it's not "Oh, big deal shoot yourself with the epi-pen and then go on with life."

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#90150 Aug 24, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, but the question was Bammy's military service?
He served his country in a different way. With no draft, he decided to serve the country by going into public service. And he did it willingly.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90151 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>I don't disagree, although keep in mind that Clinton defeated HW for a 2nd term. From where I sit it sounded like sour grapes because Clinton deprived HW of something he was "entitled to".
The personal vilification started with Clinton. It looked a lot like he was targeted to be the last casualty of the Vietnam War. His womanizing provided an easy target but if that was the only issue I don't think the attacks would have been so viperous.
(I still think the biggest hypocrite on te impeachment committee was Henry Hyde. He of "youthful indiscretions" which wound up having him named in his mistress's divorce action.
Clinton was a target from day one. Keep in mind also that the GOP did not like his wife because (1) she wasn't just a show piece like so many before her (2) she wasn't content to just stand behind him smiling like someone on thorazine and (3) the one that really counts, she was part of the special prosecution team for the impeachment of Nixon back in the day. GOP are elephants, they don't forget anything and they were so holding that grudge.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90152 Aug 24, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't just use the epi-pen. You use the epi-pen then you immediately have to go to the hospital. The epi-pen isn't a cure all and the dosage may not be enough. Therefore, it's not "Oh, big deal shoot yourself with the epi-pen and then go on with life."
Someday you will get tired of talking to a wall. One can not educate or inform a wall. If you throw something at a wall (like pertinent information) it will just bounce off and the wall will stay the same with no changes. The only way to affect a wall is to shoot it with a freaking cannon...or elect a black democrat as POTUS. <shrug>

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#90153 Aug 24, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep. It's all a rightwing conspiracy. That's why we didn't hear about any Republican presidents who failed to serve or dodged the draft... wait, there weren't any...
Keep drinking that koolaid, good buddy!
So if Clinton had served, the right would have accepted him with open arms? Would have not had an unkind thing to say about him? You know that's not the case.

My point is, our political system is a game of this team vs that team. If Clinton had served, the Republicans would have simply found some other point to rally around. Non-service was not Clinton's problem, it was the low hanging fruit to those looking for a target on him to attack.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#90154 Aug 24, 2013
RACE wrote:
I believe she actually went to vietnam and told the troop they were basically baby killers. She did not just speak against the war, she was DPRK propaganda machine.
<quoted text>
During that time, calling the military "baby killers" was an every day occurrence. They actually would go into villages and shoot everyone. Everyone. IT was a horrible war.

I think Mimi is right, Jane Fonda was extremely naive. Doesn't make it right, makes it understandable.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#90155 Aug 24, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, but the question was Bammy's military service?
And this proves my point when I said if Clinton was a republican, the right would not bring up his military service. Instead of answering the question about your guy, you deflect back to the other guy. Its all a game of what dirt can I use to make the other guy look bad. Both sides play it.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#90156 Aug 24, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
Someday you will get tired of talking to a wall. One can not educate or inform a wall. If you throw something at a wall (like pertinent information) it will just bounce off and the wall will stay the same with no changes. The only way to affect a wall is to shoot it with a freaking cannon...or elect a black democrat as POTUS. <shrug>
Ha! Perfect, funny and true.

Oh, and I read up on the Presidents' involvement in Viet Nam War. Seems like our involvement mostly lands on Truman and Eisenhower with Kennedy escalating it and Johnson really screwing things up.

But, hey, that whole war was a horrible, horrible disaster for the U.S.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#90157 Aug 24, 2013
Gosh, this all brings me back to the '70s when we would sit around and talk about The War, the Beatles, Twiggy and the newest dance steps.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#90158 Aug 24, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
I'm afraid historians aren't gonna be very kind to Bush/Cheney, regardless of partisan, party bullsh*t....BTW, Tonight is steak nite...Got the charcoal grill all setup, justa waiting for the sun to fade, as it is about 90 down here....What's everybody having?
It IS steak night. Just went to Logans.

Just for you,Race. Wife ordered medium well. I ordered well done. She had to send hers back cause it was medium. I didn't want to deal with sending mine back, but showed the waitress how terrible my steak was prepared with so much red.

Gave us $5 off. Probably some snobby new cook back there trying to push his taste on the customers.

“It made sense at the time....”

Since: May 09

Des Plaines, IL

#90159 Aug 24, 2013
we had steak & salmon... usual saturday night programming around here. we cook together, and have more "state of the union" conversations over dinner & wine or cocktails on saturday evening than any other time of the week...

been doing this for years and years... we enjoy it and miss it when we dont have the opportunity.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90160 Aug 24, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
Instead of answering the question about your guy, you deflect back to the other guy.
What question are you referring to?

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#90161 Aug 24, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
I'm afraid historians aren't gonna be very kind to Bush/Cheney, regardless of partisan, party bullsh*t....BTW, Tonight is steak nite...Got the charcoal grill all setup, justa waiting for the sun to fade, as it is about 90 down here....What's everybody having?
We had leftover indian.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#90162 Aug 24, 2013
cheluzal wrote:
The rest of the world shouldn't have to worry about killing someone for doing normal things.
Perhaps the cafeteria should wipe tables down better.
This will be a lifelong challenge for this girl; best to teach skills rather than expect the world to accomodate you, as it won't.
I see it as she shouldn't have to worry about dying for doing normal things.
I'm sure her mom has spoken to the school and probably started packing wipes in the lunch bag. And skills the girl already has, but she's just a *kid* and sometimes kids mess up. Imo it's incumbent on us as a society to take care of the most vulnerable.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#90163 Aug 24, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd have to go look it up, but as I recall, we were already sending advisors...very few of them...and way way way quietly as early as '56.
Eisenhower effectively stayed out of it but IIRC the US part in it was primarily paying France to stay there and deal with it. It was still French Indochina. We were propping up the French.. The French wanted either the old colonialism or they wanted out.
If they left and no one stepped in, what became S. Vietnam (because it wasn't really a nation as such...more like districts or provinces) would have been taken over by N.Vietnam. It would have been the one single Vietnam that HCM wanted (and that it became anyway).
Also, remember the whole anti-communist hysteria here at that time, Mc Carthy, et.al., and they were all convinced that if Vietnam fell, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand,-you know, the "domino effect"- and the USSR would step in to spread communism across the world through SE Asia, across the Pacific and right on to Main Street, USA.
Also remember that I only paid as much attention to that class as I needed to in order to get my A. I only heard about 2/3 of whatever he said. <shrug>
Oh yes, the domino effect boogieman covered a lot, but I don't think that justification was in general circulation until after Kennedy was in office, not Eisenhower.
I'm doing this off the top of my head without wiki-fact checking, but I don't remember a lot of military action in the late 50's (once I was old enough to remember that sort of thing.) Enormous amounts of Cold War, anti-Commie, nuclear panic,Sputnick space race things but not actual military stuff until Castro overthrew Bautista in 59.(Khrushchev did his show pounding on the table thing in 59 just about the same time the White Sox won the pennant;Mayor Daley I set off the air raid sirens to celebrate and we all thought the Russians were attacking.) I was kind of aware of the Suez canal thing because, growing up Jewish, anything that could impact Israel was discussed at Sunday school or in the family. My uncle was in the Army Reserves when he graduated college in 57 and there was no anxiety about him at risk to sent overseas to some war, or "conflict" theater.

We practiced duck and cover in school.

Plenty of the dads were WWII and Korean vets; if something were known to be brewing in Indochina, again, it would have be talked about. I had big ears and I asked inappropriate questions even then.

By 62 and definitely 63 Vietnam was an issue, but not much before. Even then we had the Berlin airlift first and always the Pinko Commie Red Menace.

I'll go poke around but I think that Kennedy was the President who took us into Vietnam in a tangible way.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#90164 Aug 24, 2013
Aisle Sitter wrote:
we had steak & salmon... usual saturday night programming around here. we cook together, and have more "state of the union" conversations over dinner & wine or cocktails on saturday evening than any other time of the week...
been doing this for years and years... we enjoy it and miss it when we dont have the opportunity.
Husband went out and brought home Chinese: Orange Pepper Beef. Okay, not great. I asked for extra rice. I am experimenting with versions of sticky rice with mango. I have been saving/freezing leftover Chinese white rice as a starting point.

I tried almond milk because older daughter wanted some when she was home lat week. This time I will use a tea/broth of lemongrass and ginger and sweeten it just with mango pulp. It will be like thick rice pudding/risotto with chunks of mango mixed in. Some of teh results so far have been real good. It is turning out really easy to make.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90165 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yes, the domino effect boogieman covered a lot, but I don't think that justification was in general circulation until after Kennedy was in office, not Eisenhower.
I'm doing this off the top of my head without wiki-fact checking, but I don't remember a lot of military action in the late 50's (once I was old enough to remember that sort of thing.) Enormous amounts of Cold War, anti-Commie, nuclear panic,Sputnick space race things but not actual military stuff until Castro overthrew Bautista in 59.(Khrushchev did his show pounding on the table thing in 59 just about the same time the White Sox won the pennant;Mayor Daley I set off the air raid sirens to celebrate and we all thought the Russians were attacking.) I was kind of aware of the Suez canal thing because, growing up Jewish, anything that could impact Israel was discussed at Sunday school or in the family. My uncle was in the Army Reserves when he graduated college in 57 and there was no anxiety about him at risk to sent overseas to some war, or "conflict" theater.
We practiced duck and cover in school.
Plenty of the dads were WWII and Korean vets; if something were known to be brewing in Indochina, again, it would have be talked about. I had big ears and I asked inappropriate questions even then.
By 62 and definitely 63 Vietnam was an issue, but not much before. Even then we had the Berlin airlift first and always the Pinko Commie Red Menace.
I'll go poke around but I think that Kennedy was the President who took us into Vietnam in a tangible way.
Well keeping in mind I wasn't even born in the 50's and too young to remember most of the 60'(I remember a few major things though...) everything I know about it has mostly come from bilks/classes/vets.

Kennedy definitely escalated it and Johnson really fuckedusover, especially by keeping Westmoreland in the game so long. I'm only saying that they were already (quietly) sending "advisors" over in the late 50s. If i remember right, the advisors in the late 50s were actual advisers and not combat troops disguised as advisers so as not to upset the American people. In fact I don't thick more than a few key people were involved...Pentagon certainly, JCS, and some faction (committee) in Congress, but I think it was one of those policies that they didn't really talk about.

Do you remember me bitching about the class the whole time I was taking it? I so wanted to (but couldn't) drop it.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90166 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Husband went out and brought home Chinese: Orange Pepper Beef. Okay, not great. I asked for extra rice. I am experimenting with versions of sticky rice with mango. I have been saving/freezing leftover Chinese white rice as a starting point.
I tried almond milk because older daughter wanted some when she was home lat week. This time I will use a tea/broth of lemongrass and ginger and sweeten it just with mango pulp. It will be like thick rice pudding/risotto with chunks of mango mixed in. Some of teh results so far have been real good. It is turning out really easy to make.
1 C Jasmine rice (rinse it about 5 times)
1C each pineapple juice (not concentrate) and coconut milk
1/4 C Maui onion diced
1 tsp kosher salt
1 Tbsp canola oil

Rinse the rice well and drain. Put oil rice onion and salt in a skillet and sauté over medium heat for about 5 minutes. Don't brown it, just stir for a few minutes to release the starch (like with risotto). Add the coconut milk and pineapple juice, stir, bring to a boil, stir again, cover, turn heat to low and simmer 20 minutes. OMFG it's soooooo good.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90167 Aug 24, 2013
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
We had leftover indian.
Chili dogs and chips. Meh. Summer break.

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