Topix Chitown Regulars

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#90128 Aug 24, 2013
I recall that time of the Vietnam War, pretty well...as one of you know's, i currently have a stepbrother sentenced to a wheelchair, due to Agent Orange exposure, during the war....another that served, took his own life....I lost many friends, including friends i knew, from 3rd grade to highschool.....Jane Fonda, no doubt handled her feelings about the war horribly...But, to many others that served and to those lost...it was truly an avoidable apocalypse....I knew many very good Americans, veterans included...that hated that war and that should never be confused with, not supporting our troops.......

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90129 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
I should have read Mimi's posts first.
The enmity left from Vietnam still lingers in things like this.
It is my opinion that Bill Clinton's problems stemmed in part because he was seen as a hippie draft dodger who got out of serving using 4S ( student deferments)
JFK has a lot to answer for. He got us in there.
Lets not forget W and his Texas Air nat guard (non) service...

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90130 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
I should have read Mimi's posts first.
The enmity left from Vietnam still lingers in things like this.
It is my opinion that Bill Clinton's problems stemmed in part because he was seen as a hippie draft dodger who got out of serving using 4S ( student deferments)
JFK has a lot to answer for. He got us in there.
Aside from the draft thing, and aside from the GOP wanting to keep their asses in the oval office, Clinton, like Kennedy, like FDR and like TR, aaannnndddd like Obama...were all a changing of the guard from one generation to the next and the older generation REALLY didn't want to let go. <shrug>

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90131 Aug 24, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
I recall that time of the Vietnam War, pretty well...as one of you know's, i currently have a stepbrother sentenced to a wheelchair, due to Agent Orange exposure, during the war....another that served, took his own life....I lost many friends, including friends i knew, from 3rd grade to highschool.....Jane Fonda, no doubt handled her feelings about the war horribly...But, to many others that served and to those lost...it was truly an avoidable apocalypse....I knew many very good Americans, veterans included...that hated that war and that should never be confused with, not supporting our troops.......
There were so...many...steps along the way where it could have been avoided. THEN there we so many times we could have gotten out of it. The biggest single mistake of the entire thing was Johnson's unwavering support of Westmoreland. If they'd gotten rid of him earlier and changed it from a war of attrition to a conquer and hold (i forget eh actual military term) like they did after that they could have been out, successfully, in a couple of years providing that they could have and would have been willing to continue to prop up Saigon.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90132 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
JFK has a lot to answer for. He got us in there.
He failed to get us out, but he was murdered so we can only speculate what he would or would not have done later.

Eisenhower tried to stay out of it, but had to do what he had to do and really Truman had his fingers in it as well...as I said our involvement there started ~45. Johnson escalated it.

I think if we analyze it,(and oh god I have...) we have to lay the bulk of the blame for all of the worst parts at Johnson's feet. Gulf of Tonkin anyone? And the French...we need to blame the French too.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90133 Aug 24, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets not forget W and his Texas Air nat guard (non) service...
What was Bammy's military service?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90134 Aug 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
Dennis Rodman?
He went to North Korea was all chummy with... Il Jung or Cream of Sum Yun Guy or whatever that leader's name is. Then came back to the states and said he was a nice guy, just young and misunderstood.

However... it was speculated that Rodman was actually spying for the US. Maybe that's why he wasn't arrested.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90135 Aug 24, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
The Right would have simply found some othr reason to attack him if they didn't have that. If he was a Republican, the right would not have said a word about that.
Yep. It's all a rightwing conspiracy. That's why we didn't hear about any Republican presidents who failed to serve or dodged the draft... wait, there weren't any...

Keep drinking that koolaid, good buddy!
Timmy

Hollywood, FL

#90136 Aug 24, 2013
The military draft had ended by the time he turned 18. Unlike W, there was no draft to dodge. W dodged the draft by joining the National Guard and then did not have the decency to properly serve his time in it.
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
What was Bammy's military service?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#90137 Aug 24, 2013
I believe she actually went to vietnam and told the troop they were basically baby killers. She did not just speak against the war, she was DPRK propaganda machine.
Mister Tonka wrote:
Any history buffs( or older peeps) wanna help me out?
I read about a movie theater that won't play Oprah's new movie cause Jane Fonda is on it and they still hate her from back on the 60's. I understand she was outspoken against the vietnam war, but this pervasive grudge against her indicates she was more than just anti-war. What exactly did she do that sets her apart from any other celebrity of the day? I really have no idea.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#90138 Aug 24, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
There were so...many...steps along the way where it could have been avoided. THEN there we so many times we could have gotten out of it. The biggest single mistake of the entire thing was Johnson's unwavering support of Westmoreland. If they'd gotten rid of him earlier and changed it from a war of attrition to a conquer and hold (i forget eh actual military term) like they did after that they could have been out, successfully, in a couple of years providing that they could have and would have been willing to continue to prop up Saigon.
This may interest you...I forget, Showtime or Cinamax had this series on strange twists in history...In 1946, Ho Chi Minh, through channels, wanted assistance from President Truman,...in providing assistance toward forming a type of democracy, for his people.....if and when, they were completely autonomous....Unfortunately... . History records that somehow, Truman's advisors insisted he ignore that request....Somtimes, history really hurts, eh?.....

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#90139 Aug 24, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep. It's all a rightwing conspiracy. That's why we didn't hear about any Republican presidents who failed to serve or dodged the draft... wait, there weren't any...
Keep drinking that koolaid, good buddy!
They're much better at, getting us into Wars.....Can't you hear John McCain from where you're at?....

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90140 Aug 24, 2013
RACE wrote:
I believe she actually went to vietnam and told the troop they were basically baby killers. She did not just speak against the war, she was DPRK propaganda machine.
<quoted text>
Ummmm DPRK is N. Korea... j/s

Otherwise, yeah.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90141 Aug 24, 2013
Timmy wrote:
The military draft had ended by the time he turned 18. Unlike W, there was no draft to dodge. W dodged the draft by joining the National Guard and then did not have the decency to properly serve his time in it.
<quoted text>
Thank you. I'm trying really hard to not respond to it. When he asked about the current POTUS' service I was tempted to ask him about his, but I don't want to talk to him. This was good though.:D

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90142 Aug 24, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>This may interest you...I forget, Showtime or Cinamax had this series on strange twists in history...In 1946, Ho Chi Minh, through channels, wanted assistance from President Truman,...in providing assistance toward forming a type of democracy, for his people.....if and when, they were completely autonomous....Unfortunately... . History records that somehow, Truman's advisors insisted he ignore that request....Somtimes, history really hurts, eh?.....
Ain't it though?

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#90143 Aug 24, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text> They're much better at, getting us into Wars.....Can't you hear John McCain from where you're at?....
Ha! Also I think that he somehow thinks that W joining the air national guard to AVOID THE DRAFT and then NOT SERVING somehow counts as military service when in fact it's actually the definition of draft dodging.

The ONLY reason he didn't go to jail like he should have is because of his name...same reason he won't go to jail for his war crimes/crimes against humanity.

One would think that the resident idiot SHOULD be outraged that people like that (weasely village idiots) get away with stuff the rest of us would be imprisoned for ONLY because of their name. Of course I suppose he's the village idiot where he lives so....

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#90144 Aug 24, 2013
Timmy wrote:
The military draft had ended by the time he turned 18. Unlike W, there was no draft to dodge. W dodged the draft by joining the National Guard and then did not have the decency to properly serve his time in it.
Yeah, but the question was Bammy's military service?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#90145 Aug 24, 2013
I'm afraid historians aren't gonna be very kind to Bush/Cheney, regardless of partisan, party bullsh*t....BTW, Tonight is steak nite...Got the charcoal grill all setup, justa waiting for the sun to fade, as it is about 90 down here....What's everybody having?

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#90146 Aug 24, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>The Right would have simply found some othr reason to attack him if they didn't have that. If he was a Republican, the right would not have said a word about that.
I don't disagree, although keep in mind that Clinton defeated HW for a 2nd term. From where I sit it sounded like sour grapes because Clinton deprived HW of something he was "entitled to".

The personal vilification started with Clinton. It looked a lot like he was targeted to be the last casualty of the Vietnam War. His womanizing provided an easy target but if that was the only issue I don't think the attacks would have been so viperous.

(I still think the biggest hypocrite on te impeachment committee was Henry Hyde. He of "youthful indiscretions" which wound up having him named in his mistress's divorce action.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#90147 Aug 24, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
He failed to get us out, but he was murdered so we can only speculate what he would or would not have done later.
Eisenhower tried to stay out of it, but had to do what he had to do and really Truman had his fingers in it as well...as I said our involvement there started ~45. Johnson escalated it.
I think if we analyze it,(and oh god I have...) we have to lay the bulk of the blame for all of the worst parts at Johnson's feet. Gulf of Tonkin anyone? And the French...we need to blame the French too.
What was Eisenhower's involvement? My personal recollection is that the US did not start sending advisers over there until 62 or so. I had friends whose older brothers were advisers.

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