Topix Chitown Regulars

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85956 May 22, 2013
RACE wrote:
"It's equivalent to a Category 5 hurricane. It means winds were more than 200 miles per hour, and it means you have to be underground, because there will be nothing left above ground."
Safe rooms are a joke.
See that's the thing. Yes, I am as upset as everyone else about people (and kids, even though I don't like them, I do not wish them death) dying, but it WAS an F5. We're only human. Only so much we are able to do against the forces of nature. Shitsgonnahappen, and we have to accept that we can't control everything all of the time.

I read something yesterday (sorry can't remember where, maybe Huff Post) that said a large part of the reason there aren't a whole lot of underground shelters has to do with soil composition and the inability to build structures that won't just fall apart because the soil/bedrock/etc., won't support them in most parts of OK.

My niece told me that they are told to go into the bathroom there too and to get into the bathtub. I guess that *sorta* makes sense since once the building including the bathroom is destroyed you could go for a ride inside the tub? <shrug>

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85957 May 22, 2013
Niece said that the cousin came home last night. He (they all) were in a shelter in Moore (one of the ones that held apparently) and all are safe and well.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85958 May 22, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>If you lived in Moore, Oklahoma......Time to rebuild or leave?......
I'd be gone so fast. Of course I'd never move there in the first damn place.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#85959 May 22, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
I just read a thing on this last night...they narrowed it down to one little corner of Connecticut.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politi...
I think there is an area of forests and lakes, in north-central and northwest lower Michigan, where i don't recall any fires or tornadoes ever, great for fishing and sportsmen.....but, it's quite away from any large citys.....probably not much work, though.....

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#85960 May 22, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd be gone so fast. Of course I'd never move there in the first damn place.
If you live near Tacoma, i have been there and loved it...the whole area....guess earthquakes are the only variable....Yea, i would never live in the flatland middle, either.....

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85961 May 22, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>If you live near Tacoma, i have been there and loved it...the whole area....guess earthquakes are the only variable....Yea, i would never live in the flatland middle, either.....
Meh. I grew up in California. Earthquakes don't faze me, and I've been in some big ones (Northridge, Loma Prieta, others with names I don't remember/know...). Not to say I don't take them seriously, I do, but I am so accustomed to them having lived with them my whole life that it's most of the time "oh an earthquake...yawn"

Of course MOST of the time they are pretty minor. There was one in like '84 that just went on and on (it was like a 6.5) that I thought was never going to stop and it started to freak me out about a minute (most initial shocks last like 15-30 seconds...then aftershocks)into it. Then it stopped, and I shrugged it off. You gotta do that when you live in earthquake country...or you know, move to OK where they don't have them.

My biggest concern living here is this nice big volcano we got right here in river city.

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#85962 May 22, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
Niece said that the cousin came home last night. He (they all) were in a shelter in Moore (one of the ones that held apparently) and all are safe and well.
So glad to hear that!!! Breathing a sigh of relief for your niece and all of those who were worried.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#85963 May 22, 2013
ScarletandOlive wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand you being upset about any loss of life.
For the older schools, though, what programs should have been cut to build the safe rooms (and it wouldn't have just been building a room, since I'm sure other infrastructure would have to be updated)? How many teachers should have been fired to cover those costs? Do we want our children educated, I mean with a well-rounded education that will serve as a foundation for the future of this country, or do we just want them babysat?
There are limited funds in this country and the federal government can't subsidize everything because people don't want to pay taxes to support those subsidies. An EF5 tornado cut a path of destruction 17 miles long and 2 miles wide, destroying 2 schools in the process and only 7 school children died. I think it is unrealistic to think that there would be no loss of life in that situation.
The key is to have been underground.
Apparently soil structure does not make it practical to build basements under structures.

An underground shelter does not have to be under another structure.

About 20-30 years ago there was a situation in northern CA where some guys kidnapped a school bus full of kids and drove in into a pre-dug slanted hole and covered it with dirt to hide it.

In OK, you get a front end loader. I assume that rental of some heavy equipment for a couple days digging can be factored into a budget soemwhere without dropping some education program. You did a slanted hole the size of a bus. The twister comes, veryone gets into teh bus which drives into the hole which puts everyone below ground level. Egress is through the back door of the bus when it is all over.

I do not know teh enginnering feasibility , OSHA or FEMA standards etc, but as long as they can dig a hole to put in sewers they could do this. Criminals did it.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85964 May 22, 2013
ScarletandOlive wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand you being upset about any loss of life.
For the older schools, though, what programs should have been cut to build the safe rooms (and it wouldn't have just been building a room, since I'm sure other infrastructure would have to be updated)? How many teachers should have been fired to cover those costs? Do we want our children educated, I mean with a well-rounded education that will serve as a foundation for the future of this country, or do we just want them babysat?
There are limited funds in this country and the federal government can't subsidize everything because people don't want to pay taxes to support those subsidies. An EF5 tornado cut a path of destruction 17 miles long and 2 miles wide, destroying 2 schools in the process and only 7 school children died. I think it is unrealistic to think that there would be no loss of life in that situation.
No, we can't subsidize everything, that's true. I'd rather subsidize something for safety b/c really, if the kids are dead you really don't need those teachers.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#85965 May 22, 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chowchilla,_Cali...

Here is link.

Soil engineers and geologists feel free to tell me why this wouldn't work.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85966 May 22, 2013
Here's a thought I bet would help (maybe).

Everyone is in the mood for helping now b/c of the disaster. Why not set up a fund specifically for building safe rooms?

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#85967 May 22, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>No, we can't subsidize everything, that's true. I'd rather subsidize something for safety b/c really, if the kids are dead you really don't need those teachers.
Just a bunch of dumb as dirt kids who can't compete on a global scale. We are almost there anyway.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85968 May 22, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
The key is to have been underground.
Apparently soil structure does not make it practical to build basements under structures.
An underground shelter does not have to be under another structure.
About 20-30 years ago there was a situation in northern CA where some guys kidnapped a school bus full of kids and drove in into a pre-dug slanted hole and covered it with dirt to hide it.
In OK, you get a front end loader. I assume that rental of some heavy equipment for a couple days digging can be factored into a budget soemwhere without dropping some education program. You did a slanted hole the size of a bus. The twister comes, veryone gets into teh bus which drives into the hole which puts everyone below ground level. Egress is through the back door of the bus when it is all over.
I do not know teh enginnering feasibility , OSHA or FEMA standards etc, but as long as they can dig a hole to put in sewers they could do this. Criminals did it.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_...

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#85969 May 22, 2013
Toj wrote:
Here's a thought I bet would help (maybe).

Everyone is in the mood for helping now b/c of the disaster. Why not set up a fund specifically for building safe rooms?
Or the government can just pass new regulations that make it cost prohibitive to rebuild, like FEMA did after Sandy, so people will have an incentive to move out of areas where natural disasters repeatedly strike.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#85970 May 22, 2013
I hate to sound cold....but part of me, just does'nt have a lot of patience with those that choose to live in Harm's way....With Sandy, if you select to underinsure and live on the beach...Oh Well......and though i feel awful about all the losses, the Oklahoman's aren't the type to ask for alot of assistance...not at all like Katrina or Sandy.....

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85971 May 22, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
See that's the thing. Yes, I am as upset as everyone else about people (and kids, even though I don't like them, I do not wish them death) dying, but it WAS an F5. We're only human. Only so much we are able to do against the forces of nature. Shitsgonnahappen, and we have to accept that we can't control everything all of the time.
I read something yesterday (sorry can't remember where, maybe Huff Post) that said a large part of the reason there aren't a whole lot of underground shelters has to do with soil composition and the inability to build structures that won't just fall apart because the soil/bedrock/etc., won't support them in most parts of OK.
My niece told me that they are told to go into the bathroom there too and to get into the bathtub. I guess that *sorta* makes sense since once the building including the bathroom is destroyed you could go for a ride inside the tub? <shrug>
THat's how I feel. Sorry those people died, but that's life. Stuff happens. Grieve, and move on.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85972 May 22, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
I hate to sound cold....but part of me, just does'nt have a lot of patience with those that choose to live in Harm's way....With Sandy, if you select to underinsure and live on the beach...Oh Well......and though i feel awful about all the losses, the Oklahoman's aren't the type to ask for alot of assistance...not at all like Katrina or Sandy.....
The Red RIver is going to flood again (Minnesota/North Dakota). Every freaking year, they spend a minimum of $500K to sandbag to save the same 85 homes. The same homes get flooded year after year and we pay for it.

In Florida, so long as your home is homesteaded, regardless of its value, the government will pay to rebuild.$10M mansion on the water? Hurrican destroyed it? Free home gets build. Way to go.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85973 May 22, 2013
ScarletandOlive wrote:
<quoted text>
Just a bunch of dumb as dirt kids who can't compete on a global scale. We are almost there anyway.
I think it depends upon where you live on how teachers are paid. Around here, in the suburbs, they usually make around $70,000 and that's NOT the top paid.

There probably are, definitely, teachers underpaid and overworked. They are not everywhere, however.

Kids are not as dumb as dirt. Parents also have to help do their part in teaching their kids. Too many parents leave it all up to the teachers and then complain.

Are your kids stupid? No. You teach them things. Part of it is the school system in certain areas. Not all areas, not all kids. Part of it is the parents as well.

I get a little tired of hearing how hard teachers have it b/c I know what they make around here and I know what their hours are. I try to check myself b/c it's not like that everywhere.

I realize in the urban and poorer areas it is much different, however.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85974 May 22, 2013
Found this from CBS Chicago site from 2012:

"A Chicago Public Schools spokesperson said average pay for teachers, without benefits, is $76,000.

But a Teachers Union attorney said the number provided by CPS doesn’t tell the whole story.

“When you’re looking at compensation, it’s not enough just to look at salary, because Chicago Public Schools teachers have to pay more for their insurance, and they get less of a contribution from the employer for their pension than in other cities,” CTU attorney Robert Bloch said."

Not saying they don't deserve the $76,000. I do, however, feel that is a very good basic salary. That would not include extra pay for teaching summer school or coaching sports.

And that would not be the top paid. I believe those who have master's degrees and doctorates get paid more.

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#85975 May 22, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
I hate to sound cold....but part of me, just does'nt have a lot of patience with those that choose to live in Harm's way....With Sandy, if you select to underinsure and live on the beach...Oh Well......and though i feel awful about all the losses, the Oklahoman's aren't the type to ask for alot of assistance...not at all like Katrina or Sandy.....
You are an ass. I know I'm getting personal, but right now I'm taking your comment personally because I still drive past the houses that were not in a flood zone but were destroyed by Sandy every day.

The cost of living is probably much lower in OK, too, and the area is less densely populated (I imagine), so the total $ amount to rebuild is significantly higher for Sandy than for this tornado.

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