“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#85908 May 21, 2013
I'm not saying they should not have had the forsight, I am just wondering where your getting the idea that it was intentionally left out?
Besides common sense, are there no state regs involving tornado's? If not, why not? I think if you want to lay blame for the children dying, there is plenty of blame to go around.

PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Right. Like Oklahoma never had tornados in this area before 1955.
C'mon Race- the need for an underground storm shelter in a tornado prone area was a cultural meme when the Wizard of Oz movie came out.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#85909 May 21, 2013
ScarletandOlive wrote:
<quoted text>
If you put a group of 15 - 18 year old high school girls together, some would obviously stand out as the oldest and youngest, but most of them would be pretty indistinguishable from each other.
So? Should that negate the age of consent?

And should we encourage or discourage fifteen year olds being sexually active?

Since: Mar 09

Miami, FL

#85910 May 21, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
Friend/former coworker asked me to be a reference for a job he's interviewing for. Sure, no problem. Glad to do it.
He emailed me today. He didn't get it, despite being very qualified, a hard worker, and got through the first round of interviews. In the second round, he apparently asked for some info re: their benefits package, and for each aspect (vacation time, sick time, health insurance, dental insurance, core work hours, etc.), he was told "It's flexible." Nothing concrete.
So after the second interview, he interviewed the HR person he'd met with to ask for some info, and he was told that he was not going to be hired b/c he was more interested in his own personal financial gain than in the actual job and doing the work.
We both think he dodged a bullet.
I agree.

Toj makes a good point, but you said he asked in the SECOND interview, not the first - I think that makes a big difference. Their answer is also very sketchy; I can see how maybe hours and PTO could be "flexible" but they couldn't answer his questions about insurance coverage? That's not something that CAN be flexible, you either have a plan or you don't. And if they do it some other way and reimburse people for out of pocket costs or something, they're walking a fine line of illegal and you wouldn't want to work there anyway.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#85911 May 21, 2013
I have been on interviews where I was asked if I had any questions about those things. I always replied that if I was offered the job, it would be then, that I would ask.
If your not gonna offer me the job, I could give a rats ass about your bennies.
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
Toj makes a good point, but you said he asked in the SECOND interview, not the first - I think that makes a big difference. Their answer is also very sketchy; I can see how maybe hours and PTO could be "flexible" but they couldn't answer his questions about insurance coverage? That's not something that CAN be flexible, you either have a plan or you don't. And if they do it some other way and reimburse people for out of pocket costs or something, they're walking a fine line of illegal and you wouldn't want to work there anyway.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85912 May 21, 2013
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
Toj makes a good point, but you said he asked in the SECOND interview, not the first - I think that makes a big difference. Their answer is also very sketchy; I can see how maybe hours and PTO could be "flexible" but they couldn't answer his questions about insurance coverage? That's not something that CAN be flexible, you either have a plan or you don't. And if they do it some other way and reimburse people for out of pocket costs or something, they're walking a fine line of illegal and you wouldn't want to work there anyway.
If they are being hardcore like that I would not want to work there either. Can you imagine asking about a bonus or overtime?!

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#85913 May 21, 2013
RACE wrote:
I'm not saying they should not have had the forsight, I am just wondering where your getting the idea that it was intentionally left out?
Besides common sense, are there no state regs involving tornado's? If not, why not? I think if you want to lay blame for the children dying, there is plenty of blame to go around.
<quoted text>
Do you need a government regulation to tel you something that is obvious, meaning that tornados hit OK and in a public building you need a safe space? OK is a place that doesn't like Big Gov't. Seems like they need it. The school was bult 57 years ago at the height of teh Cold War. Bet they had fallout shelter signs, you know , for those Ruski bombs that fell every 10 years or so.

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#85914 May 21, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
The tornadoes are just god's punishment for Oklahoma being the first state in the country to offer fully-funded all-day preschool for everybody.
My Grandmother actually said this morning that God must be mad at us because there have been so many natural disasters recently. She wasn't joking. I wanted to throw the phone an don't know why I bothered explaining that she just hears more about them because of the 24 hour media.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85915 May 21, 2013
I wish they'd stop trying to vilify Apple over taxes and instead use that energy to find ways to close the loopholes.

If it's there, Apple (and every company) has a duty to it's shareholders to take advantage of everything they are entitled to/can legally take advantage.

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

#85916 May 21, 2013
ScarletandOlive wrote:
<quoted text>
My Grandmother actually said this morning that God must be mad at us because there have been so many natural disasters recently. She wasn't joking. I wanted to throw the phone an don't know why I bothered explaining that she just hears more about them because of the 24 hour media.
*sigh*

Yeah, or it's tornado season in tornado alley.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#85917 May 21, 2013
Well, if it aint in the specs, and there is no requirement for one and the contract goes to the lowest bidder, who is it exactly that decided not to require one?

You want to blame someone, but the truth is you need to blame everyone.

I have yet to hear any talk of mandating that future schools have them, or of building bunkers at existing ones, so who's fault is that? Who is overlooking the obvious...Everyone that who.

PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>Do you need a government regulation to tel you something that is obvious, meaning that tornados hit OK and in a public building you need a safe space? OK is a place that doesn't like Big Gov't. Seems like they need it. The school was bult 57 years ago at the height of teh Cold War. Bet they had fallout shelter signs, you know , for those Ruski bombs that fell every 10 years or so.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85918 May 21, 2013
RACE wrote:
Well, if it aint in the specs, and there is no requirement for one and the contract goes to the lowest bidder, who is it exactly that decided not to require one?
You want to blame someone, but the truth is you need to blame everyone.
I have yet to hear any talk of mandating that future schools have them, or of building bunkers at existing ones, so who's fault is that? Who is overlooking the obvious...Everyone that who.
<quoted text>
Well, if you ask me I think the building inspector should have raised a red flag to the city council.

It comes down to the city council not planning.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85919 May 21, 2013
Interseting article about shelters in Oklahoma and the reason there isn't more:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive...

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#85920 May 21, 2013
RACE wrote:
<quoted text>Well, if it aint in the specs, and there is no requirement for one and the contract goes to the lowest bidder, who is it exactly that decided not to require one?

You want to blame someone, but the truth is you need to blame everyone.

I have yet to hear any talk of mandating that future schools have them, or of building bunkers at existing ones, so who's fault is that? Who is overlooking the obvious...Everyone that who.
We are also assuming unlimited funds. All of the "safe rooms" that are currently being put into elementary schools in tornado alley are using federal grants for $1 million or so.

Students at this one school died because it was directly in the path of the tornado. The entire school was leveled and the basement flooded. It is amazing that the death toll is as low as it is.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#85921 May 21, 2013
The building was 57 years old, how many generations of kids that became parents who sent their children went thru that school? Why didnt they complain?

Obviously one was not required, and nobody, and I mean NOBODY said anything to the contrary.

plenty of blame for everyone.

I am not trying to sound heartless, but I think its unfair to try and point a finger at one person or group.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if you ask me I think the building inspector should have raised a red flag to the city council.
It comes down to the city council not planning.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#85922 May 21, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Defiition of criminally stupid: being in a town that has a recent history of major tornados and building a school which does not have an underground safe room. The Nat'l Weather Service was warning yesterday that teh only safe place would be underground.
I don't care if it was financial , political, building code cronyism, whatever- there was no underground space to shelter in place in that school, and kids are dead.
If it is not technically criminal, someone made a decision not to dig a hole and that person's name and picture should be plastered all over whatever is left of Moore OK.
Especially when they are talking about the Siren going off for 16-20 minutes prior.....all you need it a secure underground shelter....not that expensive, especially knowing the history.....

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85923 May 21, 2013
RACE wrote:
The building was 57 years old, how many generations of kids that became parents who sent their children went thru that school? Why didnt they complain?
Obviously one was not required, and nobody, and I mean NOBODY said anything to the contrary.
plenty of blame for everyone.
I am not trying to sound heartless, but I think its unfair to try and point a finger at one person or group.
<quoted text>
That's a fair way to look at it. And I bet their next school they build has a bunker.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85924 May 21, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a fair way to look at it. And I bet their next school they build has a bunker.
Bet it doesn't....

Maybe if it was OKC, but from what Shawna tells me, the folks in Moore (average) aren't the sharpest pencils in the drawer.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#85925 May 21, 2013
Toj wrote:
Interseting article about shelters in Oklahoma and the reason there isn't more:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive...
Indeed interesting.
Take away points: its expensive and very difficult to build a basement shelter under a house or school structure in Oklahoma given soil and bedrock qualities.

Public shelters are becoming more prevalent but are still rare ... and expensive.

What the article does not say is that digging a hole in the ground that is not underneath a structure sounds cheap, feasible and effective. Old fashioned root cellar anyone?
Frye

United States

#85926 May 21, 2013
You have a reading comprehension problem that can be as bad as edog's. The article neither says nor implies any such thing.
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>

What the article does not say is that digging a hole in the ground that is not underneath a structure sounds cheap, feasible and effective. Old fashioned root cellar anyone?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85927 May 21, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed interesting.
Take away points: its expensive and very difficult to build a basement shelter under a house or school structure in Oklahoma given soil and bedrock qualities.
Public shelters are becoming more prevalent but are still rare ... and expensive.
What the article does not say is that digging a hole in the ground that is not underneath a structure sounds cheap, feasible and effective. Old fashioned root cellar anyone?
Seriously -- that's what I was thinking. Hole in the ground needing no electricity, water -- only air circulation and perhaps a box to hold emergency supplies like a weather radio, ready-to-eat yucky meals, water, etc.

It does sound like, though, to build any sound structure on clay isn't cheap.

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