Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85396 May 9, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd be surprised by how "smart" kids, who "know better" can make really stupid decisions. <nod nod>
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_famili...
That said, placing any blame on the victims for what this guy(s?) intentionally, with deliberation, malice, and forethought did is (IMO) the same as saying "well if she didn't dress like that she wouldn't have been raped so it's her fault." Yeah, dumb, dumb, dumb choice that she's been paying for for a really long time, but that takes away not one iota of 100% blame going to the perpetrator for his decision to find someone who was not as cautious as they should have been.
I agree. I get tired of the victims being blamed.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#85397 May 9, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd be surprised by how "smart" kids, who "know better" can make really stupid decisions. <nod nod>
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_famili...
That said, placing any blame on the victims for what this guy(s?) intentionally, with deliberation, malice, and forethought did is (IMO) the same as saying "well if she didn't dress like that she wouldn't have been raped so it's her fault." Yeah, dumb, dumb, dumb choice that she's been paying for for a really long time, but that takes away not one iota of 100% blame going to the perpetrator for his decision to find someone who was not as cautious as they should have been.
There's nothing dumb about dressing in a particular manner. It is dumb, however, to get into a strangers car.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#85398 May 9, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I specifically pointed out:
"I'm not saying you're heaping blame (b/c you don't seem that you are); but that's my thought process on it. "
I'm telling you, people don't listen at school, they hear what they want to hear, want the feel good everybody is great.
Tonka, stupid is rampant.
So what's your point. Because she suffered so much, even when discussing it amongst ourselves, we should not point out her role in this? Her lapse in judgement? They did not forcw her into the van. Better judgement could have prevented this whole thing.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#85399 May 9, 2013
I dont think anyone is blaming the girls. Nobody is saying its their fault or that they got what they deserved.

What is being said (I think anyway) is that these girls should have known better. That is not assigning blame, just stating a particular view of the situation.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85400 May 9, 2013
j_m_w wrote:
Ang, I sent you an email yesterday. Did you get it?
Hmm, I didn't see anything, let me do some digging. I have FB set up to send me emails for every frickin' thing people do on FB (b/c it's blocked at work, so it's the only way to see responses, etc., when I'm at work), so I can easily get flooded with stupid emails.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#85401 May 9, 2013
All I said is what moron gets into a strangers car. Is it not dumb to get into a strangers car? Can't we agree that it is dumb? Can't we also agree that pretty much anyone her age when she was abducted should have readily understood the risk?

Why aren't folks supposed to get into strangers cars? They aren't supposed to get into strangers cars, because you don't know if the stranger is a psycho or not. Can't we agree about that?

She was dumb. She took a chance that she shouldn't have.

Does that mean she DESERVED to be held captive for 10 years; no, of course not. No one deserves that.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85402 May 9, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>That is the funniest show...loved the part last night, where the mom found out her name was still in the bathroom wall, at the skating rink...lol...Kinda miss Suburgatory, that was after it.....
I loved Suburgatory, but it seemed tough for me to find, I never k new it's night and time, b/c I thik I found it early on when they were trying to find a home for it in the schedule, so it moved around on me.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#85403 May 9, 2013
The one girl was friends with the daughter of this scumbag. In her case, I can see accepting a ride from the father of your bestie. The others <mimishrug> just let their guard down, imo. This guy has been repeated described as charming and friendly, so it's easy to see how it could have happened.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#85404 May 9, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I loved Suburgatory, but it seemed tough for me to find, I never k new it's night and time, b/c I thik I found it early on when they were trying to find a home for it in the schedule, so it moved around on me.
Yeah, they should have left it after, Modern Family...like it was....they get greedy and try to push us into the lame show, where the girl and kid, move back home.....They did that with a show, The B*tch that lives in Apt. 2B.....now i can't even find it.....it's alway's about greed.....

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85405 May 9, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>So what's your point. Because she suffered so much, even when discussing it amongst ourselves, we should not point out her role in this? Her lapse in judgement? They did not forcw her into the van. Better judgement could have prevented this whole thing.
Maybe it would have prevented it but we don't know. Maybe he would have forced her in -- chased after her or used a weapon.

The guy is not right at all.

I'm not stoppin anyone from discussing anything. Including myself from voice my opinion that it's unnecessary to blame the victim.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85406 May 9, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, they should have left it after, Modern Family...like it was....they get greedy and try to push us into the lame show, where the girl and kid, move back home.....They did that with a show, The B*tch that lives in Apt. 2B.....now i can't even find it.....it's alway's about greed.....
Oh, right -- that's the show with the chick from Scrubs and How I Met Your Mother, and she moves in with mom and stepdad. Hardy har har.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#85407 May 9, 2013
The one girl, Gina was supposed to be a special ed student.....too bad they can't just hang this guy, immediatly.....in his front yard....sorry.....

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#85408 May 9, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe it would have prevented it but we don't know. Maybe he would have forced her in -- chased after her or used a weapon.
The guy is not right at all.
I'm not stoppin anyone from discussing anything. Including myself from voice my opinion that it's unnecessary to blame the victim.
The group knows I place a lot of weight on personal responsibility and ownning up to one's role in any givn situation. Count me on Tonka's side in this.

Actions have consequences. As soon as you are old enough to cross the street by yourself you know waht could happen if you don't look both ways. It does not absolve the guy speeding down a side street, but it acknowledges that the victim played a part in getting to that point of metaphorical impact.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85409 May 9, 2013
I agree with Sub -- two different things, how a girl dresses and whether she voluntarily gets into a car with a stranger.

Last night on the news: Each year, of children who were approached and attempted to be abducted by strangers, 81% fought back and ran away. Only 19% were helped by an adult. They showed camera footage from various stores. No adults around. Creepy stuff to watch. All I could think was "What if this kid didn't fight back/run away?"
Timmy

United States

#85410 May 9, 2013
The "The B*tch that lives in Apt. 2B" was abruptly cancelled mid-season. That is why you can't find it. THe network does not plan to air the finshed, but un-aired episodes.
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, they should have left it after, Modern Family...like it was....they get greedy and try to push us into the lame show, where the girl and kid, move back home.....They did that with a show, The B*tch that lives in Apt. 2B.....now i can't even find it.....it's alway's about greed.....

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85411 May 9, 2013
For you star wars nerds, this is damn funny:

(it's just a picture)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gurooo/664852376...

“Checks and Balances”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#85412 May 9, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
For you star wars nerds, this is damn funny:

(it's just a picture)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gurooo/664852376...
Ha ha! I love it!

Since: Mar 09

Miami, FL

#85413 May 9, 2013
Ang, I just forwarded the same email with the subject line "read me!:)"

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#85414 May 9, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
The group knows I place a lot of weight on personal responsibility and ownning up to one's role in any givn situation. Count me on Tonka's side in this.
Actions have consequences. As soon as you are old enough to cross the street by yourself you know waht could happen if you don't look both ways. It does not absolve the guy speeding down a side street, but it acknowledges that the victim played a part in getting to that point of metaphorical impact.
I take personal resonsibility for myself. I'm not going to say what those girls should have done or should not have done and whether or not they are accountable on a personal responsibility level.

I don't know all the facts yet.

Of the facts that have emerged that I have read, two facts are germaine to this conversation -- one girl knew of him as her friend's father, and the other one believed him to be the father of a coworker.

I think this is an excellent time for parents of young kids and young adults to remind them not to get into a car unless they are positively sure of the people they ride with and it is a prearranged ride.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85415 May 9, 2013
I'm not saying it wasn't dumb...or a lapse in judgement and that they should have known better. I'm saying that everyone, especially kids (and make no mistake, 17 year olds are still "kids") don't always think rationally.

Research says that the brain doesn't even really start working like an adult (consequences, long term repercussions, etc., etc., etc.) until people are like 24-25 isn for the most part, so for a 17 year old to do something that they KNOW BETTER than to do is understandable. In this case of course it's also tragic.

Of course they knew better. Of course it was drilled into their heads. But, sometimes kids (adults too) do stupid shit that they know better, they make choices that they've been taught are bad choices (by parents, school, churches, whatever) that most adults wouldn't make because as Bill Cosby so famously said, "kids are brain dead" most of the time. They think "here/now" not "what if?" So I can't place any of the blame for what happened on any of the girls.

I did the same thing at 17. Took a ride. Didn't know the guy. He was a perv. I agreed to go along with him. Jumped out of the car at a red light before he got to wherever it was he was taking me. I was SO LUCKY. Never, ever, ever did it again, ever. My braindeadedness was working overtime that day.*I* knew better, but it was a long-ass walk (like 5 miles) and I just wanted a ride.

The worst part of my being sofuckingstupid? it was only two years after this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Singlet...

Berkely, California is within a few miles of where I grew up, so it was REALLY stupid for me to take a ride from a stranger, still...<shrug>

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