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Charles Barkley

Hoffman Estates, IL

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#83711
Apr 7, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04 /07/sports/ncaabasketball/rutg ers-officials-long-knew-of-coa ch-mike-rices-actions.html?hp
Oh Jess,if this is accurate, I am so sorry.
It reads like Penn State without the sex component.
My guess is he didn't recruit from the hood! Suburban-type kids with their one shot at college basketball will take that abuse but, one he was one tough urban kid away from getting seriously hurt.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#83712
Apr 7, 2013
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text> Don't you find that much of the debate can be dismissed by the fact...that 13 year old girls are not capable of any legal consent, if that is really a factor at all?....These main two offenders are 18, and judged solely responsible in our legal system......
Choosing a legal "age of consent" is something imposed by a give society and does not appear to be dependent on chronological age in an absolute sense.

For example, Romeo and Juliet were thought to around 14 or 15.
Mary married Joseph and was already pregnant as a very young teenager although the circumstances were, ah, unique. The point is that the her age was not an issue.
If you read history, you know there have been some fairly important women who were married at a young age and bred as soon as they reached menarche
More currently, in the Jewish tradition, 13 is considered the coming of age with all that implies.
Mimi could probably give more examples where imputed maturity and social responsibility aka coming of age is more closely tied to biological maturation than an arbitrary age.

My point is that this construct seems more closely descriptive of the CN teenagers conduct than the legal and parental one.

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Since: Jun 09

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#83713
Apr 7, 2013
 

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Charles Barkley wrote:
<quoted text>My guess is he didn't recruit from the hood! Suburban-type kids with their one shot at college basketball will take that abuse but, one he was one tough urban kid away from getting seriously hurt.
Interesting point. If he had urban kids on the team the kids would have addressed the problem without going through the chain of command.
Do you find that consistent with the discipline of a team that the members are taught to follow the coaches orders rather than make decisions themselves?
Charles Barkley

Hoffman Estates, IL

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#83714
Apr 7, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting point. If he had urban kids on the team the kids would have addressed the problem without going through the chain of command.
Do you find that consistent with the discipline of a team that the members are taught to follow the coaches orders rather than make decisions themselves?
I think all athletes by that level know teamwork and discipline and may also know some coaches who are complete tools. But, they also know a psychopath when they see one. Sadly, they may not want to throw their college career away because of one. There's tough and there is crazy. This guy might fancy himself a Marine DI but, it's Rutgers and it's basketball, not the battlefield or Indiana and Bobby Knight...

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Since: Jun 09

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#83715
Apr 7, 2013
 
Charles Barkley wrote:
<quoted text>I think all athletes by that level know teamwork and discipline and may also know some coaches who are complete tools. But, they also know a psychopath when they see one. Sadly, they may not want to throw their college career away because of one. There's tough and there is crazy. This guy might fancy himself a Marine DI but, it's Rutgers and it's basketball, not the battlefield or Indiana and Bobby Knight...
You invoke Bobby Knight. Every basketball coach in creation has to know how he ended his association with IN

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

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#83716
Apr 7, 2013
 

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PEllen wrote:
My point is that this construct seems more closely descriptive of the CN teenagers conduct than the legal and parental one.
Your point is laying culpability on the 13 yr olds. I don't care what Jewish tradition or Romeo and Juliet say, society has determined an age of consent for a reason. Again, we can't allow a child to make hizzer own decision on what to eat, but they can make their own decisions on something like sex, which certainly requires no maturity!

Your argument is like blaming a woman for being raped because she wore a mini-skirt to the bar. Or a guy saying he didn't molest that ten year old, she seduced him and he was powerless to stop it. Pull your head out and wise up, please.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#83717
Apr 7, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Your point is laying culpability on the 13 yr olds. I don't care what Jewish tradition or Romeo and Juliet say, society has determined an age of consent for a reason. Again, we can't allow a child to make hizzer own decision on what to eat, but they can make their own decisions on something like sex, which certainly requires no maturity!
Your argument is like blaming a woman for being raped because she wore a mini-skirt to the bar. Or a guy saying he didn't molest that ten year old, she seduced him and he was powerless to stop it. Pull your head out and wise up, please.
No, you are taking the point to an unntended extreme. What I am saying ( and have said before in otehr ocnversations here) is that there is a point at which personal responsibility should be factored in. Call it age of consent. Perhaps comparative responsibility is younger.

If you are younger than I think 7 you are not legally responsible for your actions if you run over a little old lady with your bike. Between 7-12 they will look at circumstances to see if you are culpable. The older you are the more responsible you are held. Iam suggesting that should apply in a situation like the CN case when considering what the girls role in as balanced against the culpability of the boys.

Since: Oct 12

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#83718
Apr 7, 2013
 
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
There are already states that limit prosecution of statutory rape if there is a certain number of years difference between the participants http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/sr/statelaws/summa...
And do you think that an 18 year old knows more than someone who is 17 years and 6 months old? They are treated differently by the legal system unless the judge makes an exception.
I am not outright suggesting that we change the laws. I am saying that we should discuss whether they are still appropriate.
Bottom line is that the states have established at what age, you become totally responsible as an adult, for your actions....and it is 18.....also, would'nt you say that these cases really transend the classic statuatory rape? Statuatory rape has mostly been the 20 year old guy and his 14 year old girlfriend, as in more consensual than rape.....Sometime's they seem to minimalize the true violence, that is rape....

Since: Oct 12

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#83719
Apr 7, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>Choosing a legal "age of consent" is something imposed by a give society and does not appear to be dependent on chronological age in an absolute sense.
For example, Romeo and Juliet were thought to around 14 or 15.
Mary married Joseph and was already pregnant as a very young teenager although the circumstances were, ah, unique. The point is that the her age was not an issue.
If you read history, you know there have been some fairly important women who were married at a young age and bred as soon as they reached menarche
More currently, in the Jewish tradition, 13 is considered the coming of age with all that implies.
Mimi could probably give more examples where imputed maturity and social responsibility aka coming of age is more closely tied to biological maturation than an arbitrary age.
My point is that this construct seems more closely descriptive of the CN teenagers conduct than the legal and parental one.
...Societys and cultures shape the laws and rules that we live by. Should'nt we understand that our legal system must setup all our laws, based on definates...like 18 as the age one might be regarded as a legal adult. They would have neither the grounds or appetite to discern between maturity on a case by case basis....In all these cases, like Connecticutt or the Ohio case....there is no real doubt, that these boy's knew full well, what they were doing is wrong.....Do you think, the local society or law enforcement, should react differently?

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#83720
Apr 7, 2013
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>...Societys and cultures shape the laws and rules that we live by. Should'nt we understand that our legal system must setup all our laws, based on definates...like 18 as the age one might be regarded as a legal adult. They would have neither the grounds or appetite to discern between maturity on a case by case basis....In all these cases, like Connecticutt or the Ohio case....there is no real doubt, that these boy's knew full well, what they were doing is wrong.....Do you think, the local society or law enforcement, should react differently?
I disagree. The courts are well suited to distinguish things on a case by case basis. Judges are supposed to temper justice with mercy. You are suggesting something akin to saying that mandatory sentencing must be applied all the time, no exceptions. Technically that is what the law says, but the news is full of judges findng some kid guilty of something lesser so he is not bound to impose the mandatory sentence.

I don't think the Ohio case and the CN case are identical. The Ohio boys could have been prosecuted even if the girl was 22 based on how drunk she appeared to be. There is nothing in the CN case to suggest the girls were coerced or anything but full participants.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

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#83721
Apr 7, 2013
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>...Societys and cultures shape the laws and rules that we live by. Should'nt we understand that our legal system must setup all our laws, based on definates...like 18 as the age one might be regarded as a legal adult. They would have neither the grounds or appetite to discern between maturity on a case by case basis....In all these cases, like Connecticutt or the Ohio case....there is no real doubt, that these boy's knew full well, what they were doing is wrong.....Do you think, the local society or law enforcement, should react differently?
Mimi could but she really doesn't feel up to it. Historically "maturity" was tied in with the ability to reproduce. <shrug> Also I know nothing about the CN case so I can't really offer an opinion.

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Since: Jun 09

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#83722
Apr 7, 2013
 
Charles Barkley wrote:
<quoted text>My guess is he didn't recruit from the hood! Suburban-type kids with their one shot at college basketball will take that abuse but, one he was one tough urban kid away from getting seriously hurt.
I saw teh follow up with an assistant coach who had worked with Ri=ce at Robert Morris. He has similar problems there including ?5 instances of coah vs player brawls. That rather supports your analysis that urban kids wouldn't put up with his c*arp.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

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#83723
Apr 7, 2013
 

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PEllen wrote:
There is nothing in the CN case to suggest the girls were coerced or anything but full participants.
Except for the fact they're THIRTEEN!

Are you advocating for the statutory rape of young kids?
mommy of obammy

Athens, Greece

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#83724
Apr 7, 2013
 
bla bla bla

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

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#83725
Apr 8, 2013
 

Since: Jan 10

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#83726
Apr 8, 2013
 
Just doing a drive by post, will read stuff at lunch time. Mia is at the vet's, likely looking at surgery today or tomorrow (her stomach is empty enough, she probably would be safe to operate on today). Poor girl. Likely an obstruction. SHe was good Friday night, but since tghen hasn't kept food down, and has puked up water, but she's hydrated, which is a good sign (unlike many/most cats, mine are good about drinking water).

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#83727
Apr 8, 2013
 

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Ok, you guys, I need some thoughts.

I am NOT bragging or anything, but I got accepted to a post-grad program at Princeton. I can defer it for a year, which I will need to do, but I don't know if I should accept it or not.

I mean...it's PRINCETON (!!!) but it would mean a cross-country move and several years in NJ which I never really thought about because I never thought they would accept me.

There are no financial issues, just the idea of moving for several years, oh and also what if I can't "cut" it? FWIW I can do post-grad work here too, but it's "Ivy league" so I think that's worth some serious thought.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

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#83728
Apr 8, 2013
 
Mimi Seattle wrote:
Ok, you guys, I need some thoughts.
I am NOT bragging or anything, but I got accepted to a post-grad program at Princeton. I can defer it for a year, which I will need to do, but I don't know if I should accept it or not.
I mean...it's PRINCETON (!!!) but it would mean a cross-country move and several years in NJ which I never really thought about because I never thought they would accept me.
There are no financial issues, just the idea of moving for several years, oh and also what if I can't "cut" it? FWIW I can do post-grad work here too, but it's "Ivy league" so I think that's worth some serious thought.
Defer it for a year. You need this to settle in your brain. It's not a permanent move and being in another part of the country, you might really enjoy soaking that up when it comes time. Now you're probably just freaked out.

BTW, Congrats! Awesome!

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#83729
Apr 8, 2013
 

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I think your crazy if you turn it down.
Seattle is just a piece of dirt, it will be then when you want to go back.

Do what I did, make the move and tell yourself you will give it a year. If it dont work out, not much time lost.

Mimi Seattle wrote:
Ok, you guys, I need some thoughts.
I am NOT bragging or anything, but I got accepted to a post-grad program at Princeton. I can defer it for a year, which I will need to do, but I don't know if I should accept it or not.
I mean...it's PRINCETON (!!!) but it would mean a cross-country move and several years in NJ which I never really thought about because I never thought they would accept me.
There are no financial issues, just the idea of moving for several years, oh and also what if I can't "cut" it? FWIW I can do post-grad work here too, but it's "Ivy league" so I think that's worth some serious thought.

Since: Aug 08

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#83730
Apr 8, 2013
 

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Mimi Seattle wrote:
Ok, you guys, I need some thoughts.

I am NOT bragging or anything, but I got accepted to a post-grad program at Princeton. I can defer it for a year, which I will need to do, but I don't know if I should accept it or not.

I mean...it's PRINCETON (!!!) but it would mean a cross-country move and several years in NJ which I never really thought about because I never thought they would accept me.

There are no financial issues, just the idea of moving for several years, oh and also what if I can't "cut" it? FWIW I can do post-grad work here too, but it's "Ivy league" so I think that's worth some serious thought.
It would be hard for me to leave the North West if I lived there, and NJ would never be a place I would actually want to live in, but I don't think that's an opportunity you turn down. Suck it up for a few years and then write your ticket...

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