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“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

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#82700
Mar 21, 2013
 
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? I tell them no. I am so confused here.
When did we learn that it's ok to have sex while your kids are in bed with you?
We didn't learn that yesterday on the Abby thread. Edog just wants to keep believing that's what I said.

I'm confused too. I thought that as men, they would understand that the little head has a mind of its own and be a little more understanding that you don't want your boys to be ashamed of what their bodies do naturally. I understand that you are not "encouraging" them to do anything; from what I know of boys, no encouragement is necessary. It's not like you're giving them pointers on techinque, you are simply telling them that that activity is private-time activity.

They are going masturbate; we can either make that feel that it's something normal or that it's something to be ashamed of. I believe we've had enough of the later.

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Huntingdon, TN

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#82701
Mar 21, 2013
 
Wow, the former VP of NIU, who made $193K per year, was just busted for his part in a slush fund that netted - wait for it - $13,000 over 6 years. Someone making almost $200K/year sullied his reputation over a small benefit from $2K/year. Yeah, that was worth it.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

United States

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#82702
Mar 21, 2013
 

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squishymama wrote:
They are going masturbate; we can either make that feel that it's something normal or that it's something to be ashamed of. I believe we've had enough of the later.
They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

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#82703
Mar 21, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>When you tell them "Don't do that HERE", or "NOW", and say, "Do that in your room, it's encouragement."

You wanted to know how I made the leap to a vibrator, I think its a pretty straight line. Instead of saying, "don't play with yourself", you're saying "keep it in your room". There's a difference between understanding that something is going to occur, and sending a message to go ahead and do it. So if you're saying, "Hey, its cool. Go do your thing in your room" to a 7 year old, it would not be surprising at all if your older daughter asked you for a vibrator and you said, sure. "Just keep it in your room"

And I'm glad you noted that you are NOT one to say, "Well, they're gonna drink anyway. Better to do it under my roof", because to me, that's the same line of thinking.

And what's even more strange to me about this whole thing is that you're a woman. I cannot imagine the level to which I'd be horrified if my mother caught me spanking it or wanted to talk about it. I think kids figure that out just fine on their own.
To me saying "don't play with yourself" isn't understanding that it's going to happen, it's pretending that it's not happening. I'm not a big fan of willful ignorance.

Girls don't need vibrators to explore their bodies. I wouldn't buy my children sex toys because that is a decision an adult makes and if they are not old/mature enough to do things for themselves once they move out of my house, then I can't help them with every little thing (I wouldn't set up a job interview for them, either).

I don't think that our bodies are inherently shameful, which is why I don't freak out about biology. I was also the girl in the sorority who had the collection of porn and playgirls because I wasn't embarrassed to store them in my room or talk about them (our sorority and some of the fraternities often put them on the list for the pledges during scavenger hunts).

I know how it feels to be used for my body and to live with double standards and I also know how wonderful a loving relationship can be when you can show your affection physically. If I can help my boys navigate any of our hypersexualized, media saturated culture a little better because I have helped them to be secure about who they are and how to respect themselves and others, then I will do my best to try.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

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#82704
Mar 21, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.
The kids in Steubenville were 15, 16 & 17. When should their parents have started talking to them?

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

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#82705
Mar 21, 2013
 

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edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.
Oh, I'm sorry. I was unaware that you had a degree in early childhood development.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#82706
Mar 21, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.
Are you thinking of little boys beating off? That's not what is happening here.

Children that young are not bringing themselves to ejaculation, but they are discovering that some touching feels good.

Parents teach kids that young the difference between bad touch and good touch.That defines who can touch.

It is no different, and probably quite close to teaching a kid that it is okay to poop in the toilet but not in the living room. Both are pleasurable activities that will hapen and part of teh civilizing process is to teach them when and where.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#82707
Mar 21, 2013
 
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
The kids in Steubenville were 15, 16 & 17. When should their parents have started talking to them?
They should have started talking to all the kids about not drinking/drugs as intoxicants which lower inhibitions and make you forget training and the dangers of what can happen and that even if you are the victim you need to recognize the role you played in the interaction because that is taking personal responsibility.

The boys are guilty. No doubt. But no one held a funnel to the girls mouth and poured liquor in.

(You know that is directed at Steubenville and not you, Jess)

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#82708
Mar 21, 2013
 

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Jess in NJ wrote:
To me saying "don't play with yourself" isn't understanding that it's going to happen, it's pretending that it's not happening. I'm not a big fan of willful ignorance.
You call it willful ignorance. I call it don't ask don't tell. As a parent, I can't fathom a reason I need to know about my child's masturbatory habits. As a child, I am not discussing it with you. I don't care how open and honest our relationship is. I mean, is that the goal here. You want things to be so open that you discuss masturbation? Sorry. I can't get on board with that. TMI. Everything need not be shared between parent and child.
I know its going to happen at some point. We don't need to discuss it.
Jess in NJ wrote:
I don't think that our bodies are inherently shameful, which is why I don't freak out about biology.
You and Squishy have both brought shame into this discussion and I can't understand why. I'm sorry, but I don't see a connection. We've had this discussion before with regard to nudity in general. Being modest and not an exhibitionist does not mean you feel any shame about your body. Same thing applies here. Its not like I'm saying "Hey, stop touching your penis the disgusting little troll!" Where exactly is shame entering the picture?

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

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#82709
Mar 21, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
They should have started talking to all the kids about not drinking/drugs as intoxicants which lower inhibitions and make you forget training and the dangers of what can happen and that even if you are the victim you need to recognize the role you played in the interaction because that is taking personal responsibility.
The boys are guilty. No doubt. But no one held a funnel to the girls mouth and poured liquor in.
(You know that is directed at Steubenville and not you, Jess)
There's so much weirdness around 'not blaming the victim', and I get that. But it's *so* important to get kids to understand how to not get in to or to get out of bad situations.

We had many talks about this with my SIL. Her parents wouldn't let her do *anything* because something bad could happen. We discussed potential situations and what she could do to get out of them. Calling us at any hour was one of them. Luckily, thus far, she wants nothing to do with drugs or alcohol, and she's not afraid to disagree with people.

My parents were good about most of this--you know, being proactive about my own safety, except I remember my staunchly anti-alcohol mom saying to teenage me "if you get drunk, don't bother coming home". Um...what? I don't know what that was supposed to accomplish. I think it was supposed to scare me in to not drinking. I just pulled myself together for the walk from the door to my bedroom.

Since: Jan 10

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#82710
Mar 21, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> I was reading the letter and stopped at this line.
"Now I’m going to talk about sex. I know you know “how it works” because we’ve been talking about it ever since you two were little, since before you could read"
WTF? I'm not gonna try to put a number on when a parent SHOULD talk with their kid about sex cause I was probably let in on the secret later than I should have(by 5th grade, I was still unaware that a man had any part in how a woman got pregnant), but talking to them about “how it works” before they could read? Is this a f'n joke? My older kid is in Kindergarten and can read. Hell no I'm not talking to him about how sex works. Sorry, but that is definitely not age appropriate.
I konw people who were told from that young age how babies are made, they turnd out fine. They sure were leaps and bounds ahead of us at age 10 as to knowledge. They also had parents who emphasized not abstinence, but (1) waiting for sex wtih someone you care about and (2) condoms condoms condoms.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Tacoma, WA

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#82711
Mar 21, 2013
 
So update...

Got my sister and her son last night. I didn't even recognize her at all. She looks like she's 70. She keeps talking and throwing all this gang stuff out like I understand the references. SHE'S not in a gang, she's just been living around it. Wow.

I live in a kinda froufrou area (I'M not frou frou, just the area) and all ensconced in my academic ivory tower. I think I've lost touch with the "real" world or something. Going to go take her to get an ID and go grocery shopping. Her kid eats a lot. Or they just haven't been eating.

They both slept like they haven't been able to sleep without one eye open for years. That's probably more true than not. Glad it's spring break and I have the time right now.

#sad

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

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#82712
Mar 21, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> You and Squishy have both brought shame into this discussion and I can't understand why. I'm sorry, but I don't see a connection. We've had this discussion before with regard to nudity in general. Being modest and not an exhibitionist does not mean you feel any shame about your body. Same thing applies here. Its not like I'm saying "Hey, stop touching your penis the disgusting little troll!" Where exactly is shame entering the picture?
Lulu is ashamed when I correct her for things that I see as minor and of no consequence. I can only imagine what would go on in that little brain if I scolded her for touching herself. She's very sensitive and I'm pretty sure she would feel shame if I made her feel bad or wrong about it in any way. And she already has trouble with anxiety; add some sexual shame to that and it is a recipe for disaster.

Since: Jan 10

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#82713
Mar 21, 2013
 
Think of it this way, Tonka: That's a specific kind of parent who can talk about that stuff in age-appropriate ways and then adapt it as the kids get older. MOst parents aren't like that, but I think most people think they'll talk about sex with their kids, and yet most do not.

I wasn't told anything by my parents. I had to learn it all on my own on the streets.

Or, um, on the Rural ROutes of Iowa.

Since: Jan 10

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#82714
Mar 21, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
You call it willful ignorance. I call it don't ask don't tell. As a parent, I can't fathom a reason I need to know about my child's masturbatory habits. As a child, I am not discussing it with you. I don't care how open and honest our relationship is. I mean, is that the goal here. You want things to be so open that you discuss masturbation? Sorry. I can't get on board with that. TMI. Everything need not be shared between parent and child.
I know its going to happen at some point. We don't need to discuss it.
<quoted text> You and Squishy have both brought shame into this discussion and I can't understand why. I'm sorry, but I don't see a connection. We've had this discussion before with regard to nudity in general. Being modest and not an exhibitionist does not mean you feel any shame about your body. Same thing applies here. Its not like I'm saying "Hey, stop touching your penis the disgusting little troll!" Where exactly is shame entering the picture?
You may need to discuss masturbation if the kid doesn't have appropriate boundaries in place.

Also, Dan Savage believes you should talk to your sons about this because he gets too many letters from young men who can't have an O with a woman because they've used what he calls a "death grip" for masturbation, and now they need that greater um pressure in order to have an O. He gives them instructions on how to change it and make it so they can enjoy sex more. But he figures it'd just be easier if dads talked to their sons and gave the kid some advice to save them some hassles later on.(I'd be more inclined to clip Dan's column on the topic and leave it on the kid's pillow.)

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Tacoma, WA

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#82715
Mar 21, 2013
 
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I konw people who were told from that young age how babies are made, they turnd out fine. They sure were leaps and bounds ahead of us at age 10 as to knowledge. They also had parents who emphasized not abstinence, but (1) waiting for sex wtih someone you care about and (2) condoms condoms condoms.
Keeping in mind that I'm not up on the conversation here...

When Chris was 8-9 he came to me and asked about how babies were made. He said "I know the sperm fertilizes the egg, but how does the sperm get to the egg?" Yes he really used that vocabulary.

So, I told him. He was ok with it. I also emphasized condoms condoms condoms. When he got older, I would buy them and leave them on his dresser. The first time he came to me and said "did you leave a bag of condoms on my dresser?" I said "yes." He was all like "ok." From then on I would do that from time to time and that was the end of it. He was fine. <shrug>

Since: Jan 10

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#82716
Mar 21, 2013
 
Jess in NJ wrote:
Girls don't need vibrators to explore their bodies. I wouldn't buy my children sex toys because that is a decision an adult makes and
I don't think a girl needs a vibrator, but I have read some horror stories about the damage girls have done to themselves by inserting objects into them that aren't meant for it -- like pens and pencils. better that your daughter have a safe device meant for that.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

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#82717
Mar 21, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>You call it willful ignorance. I call it don't ask don't tell. As a parent, I can't fathom a reason I need to know about my child's masturbatory habits. As a child, I am not discussing it with you. I don't care how open and honest our relationship is. I mean, is that the goal here. You want things to be so open that you discuss masturbation? Sorry. I can't get on board with that. TMI. Everything need not be shared between parent and child.
I know its going to happen at some point. We don't need to discuss it.

Jess in NJ wrote, "I don't think that our bodies are inherently shameful, which is why I don't freak out about biology. "

You and Squishy have both brought shame into this discussion and I can't understand why. I'm sorry, but I don't see a connection. We've had this discussion before with regard to nudity in general. Being modest and not an exhibitionist does not mean you feel any shame about your body. Same thing applies here. Its not like I'm saying "Hey, stop touching your penis the disgusting little troll!" Where exactly is shame entering the picture?
It seems like you and edogg think I am sitting my boys down and having lengthy discussions with them about why their penises get hard and what they should do to achieve maximum pleasure.

The extent of my conversation with them is "Don't touch yourself in front of Mommy. You only do that when you have privacy." I don't get worked up or raise my voice. It's just not a big deal.

I know a lot of people who are embarrassed, though, to admit that their children will have any biological urges. They see their kids as living dolls and don't prepare them very well to handle life away from their mother's apron strings. These are also the same parents who called the elementary school and told the secretary not to mention the Sandy Hook shooting to their children because they want to keep them sheltered.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

United States

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#82718
Mar 21, 2013
 

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squishymama wrote:
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Oh, I'm sorry. I was unaware that you had a degree in early childhood development.
I'm sorry. I was unaware I NEEDED a godam degree in early childhood development to understand that it's inappropriate for a fking four year old to spank it!

Since: Jan 10

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#82719
Mar 21, 2013
 

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edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry. I was unaware I NEEDED a godam degree in early childhood development to understand that it's inappropriate for a fking four year old to spank it!
You probably did it and you don't even remember it.

IT'S NORMAL.

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