Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#82689 Mar 21, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly. So instead of expecting them to be able to analyze each situation to determine whether something is appropriate, I am fine with "this is not appropriate".
To each his own. I believe in teaching kids when things are appropriate and giving correct information at a level they can handle.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#82690 Mar 21, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Encourage?! They do it! Either I tell them no, which makes it seem like they are doing something bad or dirty and gives them a complex, or I tell them not to do it in front of people.
I have a 4 year old and a 7 year old.
I hear ya, Jess.

We have a similar problem with Nunu and because she is such a mischievious little girl, the more we make a big deal about something, the more likely it is that she will do it. She likes the attention, good or bad. I don't try and tell her what she can do while she's in the tub in private, but once I come in to bathe her, I will tell her to stop. She's about over this phase anyway, thank goodness.

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

#82691 Mar 21, 2013
...and yet, this conversation is somehow still more riveting than when this thread goes all political-y.

Team Toj and Jess on this one. I assumed that was kind of the standard in parenting these days.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#82692 Mar 21, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>WTF? I missed that part of her post. Sorry, but that is just nuts to me. Sex and masturbation are going to happen on their own. I see no reason to encourage it. That's just weird.
Jess, serious question. If you are instructing a boy not to stop touching himself, but to simply do it in private, are you ok with getting a daughter a vibrator, since you seem to be so open and ok with it? I can't imagine ever telling my boys to go yank it in his room.
I don't think I'm a prude, but this seems way over the line to me.
How do you equate telling a boy not to touch himself in front of people to buying a girl a vibrator? If I had a girl, I would be telling her the same thing (because little girls discover that it feels good to rub up against things). That doesn't mean that I am going to be buying my children (of any age) sex toys. It just means that I want them to respect their bodies by keeping some things private.

It also means that I want to keep an open dialogue with my children. If they are in pain or if someone is doing something inappropriate, I have already shown them that I am willing to talk about things instead of just telling them "no" or shutting them down. I don't want them thinking that their only resource is their friends when things start to happen to their bodies (I am not looking forward to puberty) or when girls start acting weird instead of just being one of the guys.

I set limits and have rules in my house. I am not a person who believes that as long as kids are having sex under their parents' roof it is better than them sneaking off and doing it somewhere else. I don't give my kids (or any other kids) alcohol before they are 21 (well, not since I became a parent). But communication and education are really important to me because I always took a lack of willingness on the part of adults to address difficult subjects as a challenge to explore them on my own. Kids are smarter than most adults give them credit for.

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Cedar Grove, TN

#82693 Mar 21, 2013
Today's quote brought to you by Ricky Gervais:

"Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right."

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#82694 Mar 21, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Well boo hoo, we can't have kids getting a complex, that will damage their precious little egos. It's FAR more important to allow a four year old to yank it.
I don't think you get it. 4 year olds get erections, but they do not ejaculate. That doesn't happen until puberty. I know you went through this, but you seem to need more explanation. At this age it is about something happening to their bodies that they don't understand, but feels good or seems funny to them.

I am not encouraging my boys to go off and do anything, but neither am I discouraging them from learning about their own bodies (note I did not say other people's bodies). The better you know your own body, the better you can recognize when you are sick, when you are hungry, when you are tired, etc. It is about awareness.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#82695 Mar 21, 2013
Maybe if parents would stop having sex in front of the kids, they would not be so anxious to masturbate.
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Well boo hoo, we can't have kids getting a complex, that will damage their precious little egos. It's FAR more important to allow a four year old to yank it.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

United States

#82696 Mar 21, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think you get it. 4 year olds get erections, but they do not ejaculate. That doesn't happen until puberty. I know you went through this, but you seem to need more explanation. At this age it is about something happening to their bodies that they don't understand, but feels good or seems funny to them.
I am not encouraging my boys to go off and do anything, but neither am I discouraging them from learning about their own bodies (note I did not say other people's bodies). The better you know your own body, the better you can recognize when you are sick, when you are hungry, when you are tired, etc. It is about awareness.
Once again you guys are trying to tell me what I do or don't "get."

I'm not sure if this borders on abuse or not, but it's definitely a collossial parenting failure on your part. You are doing your children a great disservice by never saying "no" to them or never telling them not to do something because you don't want them to "get a complex." They're gonna grow up and learn the hard way that they can't get and do whatever they want.

So we've learned that it's okay to have sex while your children are in bed with you, and now it's okay to teach a young child how to masturbate. You people are unbelievable.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#82697 Mar 21, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
I am not encouraging my boys to go off and do anything,
When you tell them "Don't do that HERE", or "NOW", and say, "Do that in your room, it's encouragement."

You wanted to know how I made the leap to a vibrator, I think its a pretty straight line. Instead of saying, "don't play with yourself", you're saying "keep it in your room". There's a difference between understanding that something is going to occur, and sending a message to go ahead and do it. So if you're saying, "Hey, its cool. Go do your thing in your room" to a 7 year old, it would not be surprising at all if your older daughter asked you for a vibrator and you said, sure. "Just keep it in your room"

And I'm glad you noted that you are NOT one to say, "Well, they're gonna drink anyway. Better to do it under my roof", because to me, that's the same line of thinking.

And what's even more strange to me about this whole thing is that you're a woman. I cannot imagine the level to which I'd be horrified if my mother caught me spanking it or wanted to talk about it. I think kids figure that out just fine on their own.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#82698 Mar 21, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>Once again you guys are trying to tell me what I do or don't "get."

I'm not sure if this borders on abuse or not, but it's definitely a collossial parenting failure on your part. You are doing your children a great disservice by never saying "no" to them or never telling them not to do something because you don't want them to "get a complex." They're gonna grow up and learn the hard way that they can't get and do whatever they want.

So we've learned that it's okay to have sex while your children are in bed with you, and now it's okay to teach a young child how to masturbate. You people are unbelievable.
Huh? I tell them no. I am so confused here.

When did we learn that it's ok to have sex while your kids are in bed with you?

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Knoxville, TN

#82699 Mar 21, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? I tell them no. I am so confused here.
When did we learn that it's ok to have sex while your kids are in bed with you?
"We" didn't, just another case of Mutt taking the ball and running too far with it.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#82700 Mar 21, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? I tell them no. I am so confused here.
When did we learn that it's ok to have sex while your kids are in bed with you?
We didn't learn that yesterday on the Abby thread. Edog just wants to keep believing that's what I said.

I'm confused too. I thought that as men, they would understand that the little head has a mind of its own and be a little more understanding that you don't want your boys to be ashamed of what their bodies do naturally. I understand that you are not "encouraging" them to do anything; from what I know of boys, no encouragement is necessary. It's not like you're giving them pointers on techinque, you are simply telling them that that activity is private-time activity.

They are going masturbate; we can either make that feel that it's something normal or that it's something to be ashamed of. I believe we've had enough of the later.

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Knoxville, TN

#82701 Mar 21, 2013
Wow, the former VP of NIU, who made $193K per year, was just busted for his part in a slush fund that netted - wait for it - $13,000 over 6 years. Someone making almost $200K/year sullied his reputation over a small benefit from $2K/year. Yeah, that was worth it.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

United States

#82702 Mar 21, 2013
squishymama wrote:
They are going masturbate; we can either make that feel that it's something normal or that it's something to be ashamed of. I believe we've had enough of the later.
They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#82703 Mar 21, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>When you tell them "Don't do that HERE", or "NOW", and say, "Do that in your room, it's encouragement."

You wanted to know how I made the leap to a vibrator, I think its a pretty straight line. Instead of saying, "don't play with yourself", you're saying "keep it in your room". There's a difference between understanding that something is going to occur, and sending a message to go ahead and do it. So if you're saying, "Hey, its cool. Go do your thing in your room" to a 7 year old, it would not be surprising at all if your older daughter asked you for a vibrator and you said, sure. "Just keep it in your room"

And I'm glad you noted that you are NOT one to say, "Well, they're gonna drink anyway. Better to do it under my roof", because to me, that's the same line of thinking.

And what's even more strange to me about this whole thing is that you're a woman. I cannot imagine the level to which I'd be horrified if my mother caught me spanking it or wanted to talk about it. I think kids figure that out just fine on their own.
To me saying "don't play with yourself" isn't understanding that it's going to happen, it's pretending that it's not happening. I'm not a big fan of willful ignorance.

Girls don't need vibrators to explore their bodies. I wouldn't buy my children sex toys because that is a decision an adult makes and if they are not old/mature enough to do things for themselves once they move out of my house, then I can't help them with every little thing (I wouldn't set up a job interview for them, either).

I don't think that our bodies are inherently shameful, which is why I don't freak out about biology. I was also the girl in the sorority who had the collection of porn and playgirls because I wasn't embarrassed to store them in my room or talk about them (our sorority and some of the fraternities often put them on the list for the pledges during scavenger hunts).

I know how it feels to be used for my body and to live with double standards and I also know how wonderful a loving relationship can be when you can show your affection physically. If I can help my boys navigate any of our hypersexualized, media saturated culture a little better because I have helped them to be secure about who they are and how to respect themselves and others, then I will do my best to try.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#82704 Mar 21, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.
The kids in Steubenville were 15, 16 & 17. When should their parents have started talking to them?

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#82705 Mar 21, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.
Oh, I'm sorry. I was unaware that you had a degree in early childhood development.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#82706 Mar 21, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
They are FOUR and SEVEN! I would be on board if they were ten years older, but it's NOT "okay and normal" for children THAT young.
Are you thinking of little boys beating off? That's not what is happening here.

Children that young are not bringing themselves to ejaculation, but they are discovering that some touching feels good.

Parents teach kids that young the difference between bad touch and good touch.That defines who can touch.

It is no different, and probably quite close to teaching a kid that it is okay to poop in the toilet but not in the living room. Both are pleasurable activities that will hapen and part of teh civilizing process is to teach them when and where.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#82707 Mar 21, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
The kids in Steubenville were 15, 16 & 17. When should their parents have started talking to them?
They should have started talking to all the kids about not drinking/drugs as intoxicants which lower inhibitions and make you forget training and the dangers of what can happen and that even if you are the victim you need to recognize the role you played in the interaction because that is taking personal responsibility.

The boys are guilty. No doubt. But no one held a funnel to the girls mouth and poured liquor in.

(You know that is directed at Steubenville and not you, Jess)

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#82708 Mar 21, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
To me saying "don't play with yourself" isn't understanding that it's going to happen, it's pretending that it's not happening. I'm not a big fan of willful ignorance.
You call it willful ignorance. I call it don't ask don't tell. As a parent, I can't fathom a reason I need to know about my child's masturbatory habits. As a child, I am not discussing it with you. I don't care how open and honest our relationship is. I mean, is that the goal here. You want things to be so open that you discuss masturbation? Sorry. I can't get on board with that. TMI. Everything need not be shared between parent and child.
I know its going to happen at some point. We don't need to discuss it.
Jess in NJ wrote:
I don't think that our bodies are inherently shameful, which is why I don't freak out about biology.
You and Squishy have both brought shame into this discussion and I can't understand why. I'm sorry, but I don't see a connection. We've had this discussion before with regard to nudity in general. Being modest and not an exhibitionist does not mean you feel any shame about your body. Same thing applies here. Its not like I'm saying "Hey, stop touching your penis the disgusting little troll!" Where exactly is shame entering the picture?

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