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“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#81939
Mar 7, 2013
 

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I dont know about what the law states. Unfortunately many innocent home owners are shot by police when they try to defend themselves and the police are busting in the wrong door. I have read a few tragedies where cops killed a homeowner executing a search warrant on the wrong address. Cops are always cleared.
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I COMPLETELY disagree!
I thought it was a law that police officers MUST identify themselves.
What about this scenario: police chase a man who ducks down an alley. My house is right next to the ally. They lose sight of him so ASSUME he must have run into my house. They follow suit, don't identify themselves because they don't want to give themselves a way. I'm sleeping peacefully until I hear someone crashing through my door. I grab my 9 and come investigate. The police see a gun in my hand, don't identify themselves or shout any orders, and instead shoot me dead.
Justifiable or murder?

Since: Jan 10

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#81940
Mar 7, 2013
 

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edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
This just makes it worse.
The officer should be charged with first degree murder.
Even cutting the officer slack because they ahve tough jobs that require split second decisions, he should be banned from law enforcement for life, at a minimum. he doesn't have what it takes: Restraint.

Since: Jan 10

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#81941
Mar 7, 2013
 

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RACE wrote:
I dont know about what the law states. Unfortunately many innocent home owners are shot by police when they try to defend themselves and the police are busting in the wrong door. I have read a few tragedies where cops killed a homeowner executing a search warrant on the wrong address. Cops are always cleared.
<quoted text>
We had Mpls cops invade the WRONG HOUSE and killed an innocent homeowner.

Internal investigation cleared them. no charges.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#81942
Mar 7, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Unless I'm mistaken, 1st degree = premeditated. This would be manslaughter.
Sounds like he had every intention of shooting as soon as the door opened= premeditated. But I'm with Race, this isn't passing the smell test.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#81943
Mar 7, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
Unfortunately many innocent home owners are shot by police when they try to defend themselves and the police are busting in the wrong door. I have read a few tragedies where cops killed a homeowner executing a search warrant on the wrong address.
This is why every American needs a high-capacity assault weapon next to their beds. Mow all those btches down!

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#81944
Mar 7, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like he had every intention of shooting as soon as the door opened= premeditated. But I'm with Race, this isn't passing the smell test.
That does not pass the legal test of premeditation. He did not wake up that morning with a plan to kill that dude. He had no plans in place to tske him to tha guy's door. That is not premeditated.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#81945
Mar 7, 2013
 
To play devils advocate....
How much time is the minimum to premeditate pulling a trigger?
No, he did not wake up planning to kill the dude, no he did not think about it last year while on vacation, and no he did not even think about it when he was chasing the guy.....But....
What if he has a bug up his ass, and decided that if he had any provocation AT ALL, he was going to draw and fire, and claim fear for his life. What if the guy never even had a gun and the cop killed him and claimed he thought he saw one, all because he had already made up his mind that if this guy did not come out on hands and knees, he was going to pay?

How much time is premeditated?
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>That does not pass the legal test of premeditation. He did not wake up that morning with a plan to kill that dude. He had no plans in place to tske him to tha guy's door. That is not premeditated.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#81946
Mar 7, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
How much time is premeditated?
I was about to ask the same thing. Just because he didn't plan on killing someone when he woke up that morning, doesn't mean he didn't plan on killing someone as soon as the chase ensued.

But again, it sounds *suspect* that a police officer would pound on someone's door in the middle of the night without identifying himself, then blow the person away as soon as the door cracked open.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#81947
Mar 7, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
To play devils advocate....
How much time is the minimum to premeditate pulling a trigger?
No, he did not wake up planning to kill the dude, no he did not think about it last year while on vacation, and no he did not even think about it when he was chasing the guy.....But....
What if he has a bug up his ass, and decided that if he had any provocation AT ALL, he was going to draw and fire, and claim fear for his life. What if the guy never even had a gun and the cop killed him and claimed he thought he saw one, all because he had already made up his mind that if this guy did not come out on hands and knees, he was going to pay?
That's a lot of what if's. Good luck proving this guy had intent to kill no matter what. I'm not getting into what ifs. I'm just discussing the facts as reported.
RACE wrote:
How much time is premeditated?
Now onto a more objective question.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8515194_difference-f...

'Under United States Code Title 18, Chapter 51, Section 1111, murder refers to the criminal act of taking a human's life with malice aforethought. "Aforethought" is the planning of the act, or premeditation'

'Courts generally determine premeditation by examining whether the defendant had time to form intent and a cooling-off period occurred before the defendant committed the act. If there was sufficient time to cool off and rethink the decision to commit murder, premeditation exists.'

Chasing someone down, arriving at house you had no prior plans to be at, and shooting thru the door killing someone you had never seen before does not fit the above definition of premeditation.

Read over Manslaughter. This incident,if he's even charged with a crime, fits better in this box than premeditated murder..

http://www.ehow.com/about_5382704_voluntary-m...

Since: Jan 10

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#81948
Mar 7, 2013
 
Nick is too naive. He had no idea, until I told him, that private and parochial schools woo kids really good at their sport away from public schools with scholarships to a good private school education, tutoring, etc.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#81949
Mar 8, 2013
 

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#81950
Mar 8, 2013
 

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eh, that cooling off thing kinda puts the kabash on my argument. But that does not preclude the possibility that the cop made a snap decision, not out of fear for his life, but plain old anger, and he decided that someone was gonna pay.
He cant be charged with it, but that does not mean it wasnt. Thats the diff between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a lot of what if's. Good luck proving this guy had intent to kill no matter what. I'm not getting into what ifs. I'm just discussing the facts as reported.
<quoted text> Now onto a more objective question.
http://www.ehow.com/info_8515194_difference-f...
'Under United States Code Title 18, Chapter 51, Section 1111, murder refers to the criminal act of taking a human's life with malice aforethought. "Aforethought" is the planning of the act, or premeditation'
'Courts generally determine premeditation by examining whether the defendant had time to form intent and a cooling-off period occurred before the defendant committed the act. If there was sufficient time to cool off and rethink the decision to commit murder, premeditation exists.'
Chasing someone down, arriving at house you had no prior plans to be at, and shooting thru the door killing someone you had never seen before does not fit the above definition of premeditation.
Read over Manslaughter. This incident,if he's even charged with a crime, fits better in this box than premeditated murder..
http://www.ehow.com/about_5382704_voluntary-m...

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

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#81951
Mar 8, 2013
 
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
Nick is too naive. He had no idea, until I told him, that private and parochial schools woo kids really good at their sport away from public schools with scholarships to a good private school education, tutoring, etc.
He's not seen Hoop Dreams?

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

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#81952
Mar 8, 2013
 
Yesterday, I locked my keys in my car. I discovered this as I was trying to leave work to take my jeans in to the tailor. Jeans I wore for an entire night, unknowingly with a hole in the crotch. Not really visible, but still.

Today, I left my wallet at home, so no delicious breakfast for me. Luckily, I have a Clif bar and an apple in my bag and there's a food day down the hall. I have also spilled tea on my khakis. This is why I wear nothing lighter in color than tea.

I am one suave m f'er. You all should know that.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#81953
Mar 8, 2013
 

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RACE wrote:
But that does not preclude the possibility that the cop made a snap decision, not out of fear for his life, but plain old anger, and he decided that someone was gonna pay.
By definition, a snap decision in the heat of the moment is not premeditated.

Since: Mar 09

United States

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#81954
Mar 8, 2013
 

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Matilda77 wrote:
Yesterday, I locked my keys in my car. I discovered this as I was trying to leave work to take my jeans in to the tailor. Jeans I wore for an entire night, unknowingly with a hole in the crotch. Not really visible, but still.
Today, I left my wallet at home, so no delicious breakfast for me. Luckily, I have a Clif bar and an apple in my bag and there's a food day down the hall. I have also spilled tea on my khakis. This is why I wear nothing lighter in color than tea.
I am one suave m f'er. You all should know that.
Heh.

I've locked myself out of my own office a couple of times. That's what I get for trying to separate office keys from house keys from car keys (I hate having a giant tangle of keys).

Also, you've reminded me that I'm hungry. I've been routinely forgetting my apple lately, to the point where I can't even say I bring an apple every day anymore. I have a second chance each day to grab it when I go home for lunch but almost always forget it then too.

Since: Mar 09

United States

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#81955
Mar 8, 2013
 
TGIF! Weekend plans?

Tonight: meeting A at the mall to shop. I'm focusing on work clothes and Vegas clothes.

Tomorrow & Sunday: get my brows waxed, get a pedicure, go tanning, do laundry, clean the house, REST. I'm still fighting this cold and really want to be 100% better before flying next Saturday.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#81956
Mar 8, 2013
 
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
Heh.
I've locked myself out of my own office a couple of times. That's what I get for trying to separate office keys from house keys from car keys (I hate having a giant tangle of keys).
.
My key chain.
-1 car key
-1 house key (opens front door and door from garage into house
-1 mailbox key

I'm not a big wig enough to have my open closed door office, but if I did, that's 4 keys. What else you got making it a big tangle?

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

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#81957
Mar 8, 2013
 
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>
Heh.
I've locked myself out of my own office a couple of times. That's what I get for trying to separate office keys from house keys from car keys (I hate having a giant tangle of keys).
Also, you've reminded me that I'm hungry. I've been routinely forgetting my apple lately, to the point where I can't even say I bring an apple every day anymore. I have a second chance each day to grab it when I go home for lunch but almost always forget it then too.
That was what saved me from complete panic when I couldn't find them...it was just one key, since I hate having them all together. Makes me feel like a janitor or something. It was on the floor of my car.

The apple in the morning thing has been working out well for me. Kind of a natural burst of energy.

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

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#81958
Mar 8, 2013
 
This weekend: Nothing. Abso-fecking-lutely nothing!

No hockey, no girl's nights, no nothing. Hoping to have a date night with J tomorrow.

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