“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#81602 Mar 2, 2013
Hey Sub,
Just for laughs:
A Carol Stream pig gave me s $60 dollar ticket tonight for not wearing my seat belt.
It was dark out and I had just pulled out of a store parking lot and was at a red light waiting and when it turned green he turned on his gumball machine and pulled me over.
He said he saw me put it on at the light and that's why he was stopping me.
So, when he gave me the ticket I told that he just had made my day and that I would see him in court.
That's when he got pissed off and told me to "shut up!".
So I did. I didn't say another word to him and he let me go.
Do you think he had probable cause to pull me over?
Just wondering if I should just pay the fine, or go and plead not guilty and take my chances.
You're an attorney. What would you do?
Thanks

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81603 Mar 2, 2013
loose cannon wrote:
Hey Sub,
Just for laughs:
A Carol Stream pig gave me s $60 dollar ticket tonight for not wearing my seat belt.
It was dark out and I had just pulled out of a store parking lot and was at a red light waiting and when it turned green he turned on his gumball machine and pulled me over.
He said he saw me put it on at the light and that's why he was stopping me.
So, when he gave me the ticket I told that he just had made my day and that I would see him in court.
That's when he got pissed off and told me to "shut up!".
So I did. I didn't say another word to him and he let me go.
Do you think he had probable cause to pull me over?
Just wondering if I should just pay the fine, or go and plead not guilty and take my chances.
You're an attorney. What would you do?
Thanks
That's not my area, but if I were in your shoes, I would analyze it like this:

If he saw you putting on your seat belt, he had probable cause. You can go and fight it and maybe he doesn't show up to court and the charges will be dropped. Other than that, if he shows up, unless you are going to lie and say you had it on, which I would not advise that you do, there's no question you were in violation of the law.

What would I do? When I've gotten tickets before I'm pretty sure I could go in and make it a pain in the a$s for the assistant DA or whatever and fight tooth and nail and probably get things dropped, but I voluntarily take my lumps just like everyone else. I try to do the supervision thing or safety school thing and I pay my fine. That's just me ... I like to be treated no better than everyone else.

Only one time did I fight a ticket and that was here last summer. The cop told me he got me at 9 over and the ticket said 14 over. I didn't look at the ticket until a couple of days later, tho, or i would have said something to the officer at the time.

So I went in to court and waited my turn to enter my plea (here you do that before the assistant DA and if you plead not guilty then you come back on another day before the judge).

The assistant DA didn't know I was an attorney and she kept telling me I only have three choices, plead guilty for 15, plead not guilty, or I could cut a deal and shed have me plea guilty for 9 over. I said, that's not a deal, because the policeman told me he only got me at 9 over?

The whole court room was packed with hundreds of people and I am going around and around and around with her (she was a former judge, herself). She kept saying Mr. Sublime we don't talk about facts today ... You only can enter your plea!

Finally, I was like NOOOOO ... I'm an attorney .. I already had to take a half day off if work to come here today ... I'm not taking another one just to come back here and argue with you before a judge about what the cop told me verses what the ticket says.

Her jaw about hit the floor when she found out I was an attorney. She took me back to a room, chastised me for not saying I was an attorney at the outset and for not wearing a suit in court (I was business casual). Then she shook my hand, introduced herself, and dropped the charges. She told me to call her before going to court if I ever get a ticket again, so that I don't have to show up to court before figuring out how we are going to handle it (its a professional courtesy)

Anyway, if I were you I'd pay the ticket and see if you can get supervision or go to traffic school so it doesn't up your insurance rates, but that's me. You could also go see an attorney who can likely help you out.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81604 Mar 2, 2013
Aisle Sitter wrote:
<quoted text>by talking to her, you are bringing her comfort and peace. my grandmother told one of her nurses in her last 12 hours that i was a good lady, i think because i came to visit as muhc as i did.

keep calling her and talking about the good memories, both with her and with others.
Oh, if I were there, I'd be visiting. She's been getting a lot of visitors.

I will call her again soon, but i am hoping she won't be there too long. She was hoping that too, when we talked. Tomorrow, I'll give my mom a call and find out how the tests went.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81605 Mar 2, 2013
loose cannon wrote:
Hey Sub,
Just for laughs:
A Carol Stream pig gave me s $60 dollar ticket tonight for not wearing my seat belt.
It was dark out and I had just pulled out of a store parking lot and was at a red light waiting and when it turned green he turned on his gumball machine and pulled me over.
He said he saw me put it on at the light and that's why he was stopping me.
So, when he gave me the ticket I told that he just had made my day and that I would see him in court.
That's when he got pissed off and told me to "shut up!".
So I did. I didn't say another word to him and he let me go.
Do you think he had probable cause to pull me over?
Just wondering if I should just pay the fine, or go and plead not guilty and take my chances.
You're an attorney. What would you do?
Thanks
It's a little unclear from your post - are you saying that you had your seat belt of before you put the car in drive and the officer is making up a story and falsely giving you a ticket or are you mad that you got caught in violation of the law?

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#81606 Mar 2, 2013
I am a very cautious driver with a clean driving record and who obeys all laws to the best of my ability.
He was in an unmarked SUV and I hasd no idea there was a prowler behind me.

“It made sense at the time....”

Since: May 09

Des Plaines, IL

#81608 Mar 2, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
AS, did you get your pictures today? You and your family have been in my thoughts and prayers.
Yes we did... asked my brother to try not to look too disgusted, nad he laughed, saying someothgn like "had i not learned ANYthing..." gave him crap right back and said "like i said, try not to look *TOO* disgusted."

the soloist did a wonderful job at the funeral, and she was upset to find out as she walked out from the back that it was "our" funeral. she and my mom are pals, and she would have done more warming up, etc., had she known. her rendition of Ave Maria is up htere with Chris Cornell (of Soundgarden) on one of the Very Special Christmas albums. she doesn't know of Chris Cornell, but she has won a Grammy...(not sure for waht, though)

thanks for the thoughts and prayers.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81609 Mar 3, 2013
loose cannon wrote:
I am a very cautious driver with a clean driving record and who obeys all laws to the best of my ability.
He was in an unmarked SUV and I hasd no idea there was a prowler behind me.
You still didn't answer the question clearly. Stop pouting and show a little respect for the men and women who put themselves in harm's way every day to keep us safe and enforce the laws. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81610 Mar 3, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
You still didn't answer the question clearly. Stop pouting and show a little respect for the men and women who put themselves in harm's way every day to keep us safe and enforce the laws. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege.
Its like she's reading from a bad movie script.

Pig. Gumball machine. Prowler. And yes. Still no clear indication of if she did what she was accused of.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81611 Mar 3, 2013
loose cannon wrote:
I am a very cautious driver with a clean driving record and who obeys all laws to the best of my ability.
He was in an unmarked SUV and I hasd no idea there was a prowler behind me.
I get it. I get pi$sed too when I get a ticket. I see it as being all about an additional source of revenue and very little to do with safety (like red light cameras). It happens to everyone, tho.
dahgts

Chicago, IL

#81612 Mar 3, 2013
Amy
http://www.topix.com/forum/chicago/TISONU5GQ6...

Topix said Amy was too long. So at the risk of offending free speechers I edited out the least interesting.

Abby
http://www.topix.com/forum/chicago/T6R4IQFT5O...

Hope this works. My computer keeps showing uploading, won't stop.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81613 Mar 3, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>You still didn't answer the question clearly. Stop pouting and show a little respect for the men and women who put themselves in harm's way every day to keep us safe and enforce the laws. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege.
I don't have a great deal of respect for what are essentially tax collectors. If they are fighting real crime and not glorified meter maids, of course.

Writing folks tickets for going 10 mph (especially when they speed themselves and get let off 99% of the time should they get pulled over by mentioning they are cops) and not wearing seat belts is not real crime.

It pis$es me off even more when they say have a nice day or drive safe after they write you a ticket ... as if they did anything to contribute to you having a nice day or as if it's really about your safety.
dahgts

Chicago, IL

#81614 Mar 3, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I get it. I get pi$sed too when I get a ticket. I see it as being all about an additional source of revenue and very little to do with safety (like red light cameras). It happens to everyone, tho.
So you think that all traffic tickets are strictly for revenue and not safety? Or just your minor miles over and the seatbelt ticket were. I think both were ridiculous. If someone was flying down the freeway at 90mph and got a ticket, that was just for revenue? Not for the protection of you and your family in the next lane?

Re your grandma, you got me teary-eyed. I too had a saint of a polish granny. It's been 40 years since she passed and I still get sad, especially when I see little, old ladies like her. I wasn't lucky enough to have her around as long as you do, but I did give her her first great-grandchild. My best wishes for her recovery.

I don't often agree with you but I will have to at least respect your intelligence now that I know you have polish blood.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81615 Mar 3, 2013
I love it even more when a cop on duty speeds, and violates the law, just so he can get on your a$s and check your plates, when you've done nothing wrong to warrant such scrutiny.

If you think cops are your friend, you are wrong. As a group they constantly fight to weaken 4th amendment protections including accessing electronic data without warrants ... using GPS tracking devices without warrants. They do all they can to trample the constitution.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81616 Mar 3, 2013
dahgts wrote:
<quoted text>So you think that all traffic tickets are strictly for revenue and not safety? Or just your minor miles over and the seatbelt ticket were. I think both were ridiculous. If someone was flying down the freeway at 90mph and got a ticket, that was just for revenue? Not for the protection of you and your family in the next lane?

Re your grandma, you got me teary-eyed. I too had a saint of a polish granny. It's been 40 years since she passed and I still get sad, especially when I see little, old ladies like her. I wasn't lucky enough to have her around as long as you do, but I did give her her first great-grandchild. My best wishes for her recovery.

I don't often agree with you but I will have to at least respect your intelligence now that I know you have polish blood.
In Chicago, its pretty much the norm for folks to drive 75-80 on the interstate. People do it everyday, quite safely. Yet what's the speed limit ... 55 mpg. Do you really think you need to drive at or under 55 mpg to be safe on the interstate in Chicago? No, you don't. Which goes to show you the speed limit isn't about safety ...

It's arbitrary at best in most instances.(Certain things like school zones, sure, but most situations a 10 mph speeding ticket doesn't mean you were unsafe).

Sure if taken to the extreme it is, but the extremes can be handled with reckless driving laws. F' I think it's more dangerous to drive at 55 mph than to do say 70 mpg and keep up with traffic in Chicago on the interstate. I don't drive at 55 mph when there.

Also whether someone else in another car wears a seat belt has no bearing in my safety. I couldn't give a f' whether they do or don't.

Thanks for the kind words. Her mom, my great-grandma, was referred to us by the name busia, before she passed.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81617 Mar 3, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't have a great deal of respect for what are essentially tax collectors. If they are fighting real crime and not glorified meter maids, of course.

Writing folks tickets for going 10 mph (especially when they speed themselves and get let off 99% of the time should they get pulled over by mentioning they are cops) and not wearing seat belts is not real crime.

It pis$es me off even more when they say have a nice day or drive safe after they write you a ticket ... as if they did anything to contribute to you having a nice day or as if it's really about your safety.
If you don't like the laws, take it up with the legislators.

If the only time you encounter law enforcement officers is when you get a ticket for failure to comply with a law (stupid as you think the law is), then consider yourself very lucky. You may not like when they try to be polite or civil during your interactions, but you would be much more upset if they were condescending or rude.

LEOs do so much more than write seat belt tickets. I am not saying that every officer is perfect, but each person they pull over could be the person who is going to pull a gun on them or run them over with their car. Each call they go on could be their last. They see the worst that humans can do to each other - the abuse people inflict on innocent children, the hate toward their neighbors, the harm that they do to themselves due to chemical abuse or mental illness. They have to be alert during their whole shift, then go home and compartmentalize so they can try to lead a healthy home life.

You may have a stressful job, but there is not a better than average chance that you will be placing yourself in harm's way everyday, while people treat you like garbage or see you as a target just because of your uniform. If you or your family needed help, you would probably call the police, right? So, maybe you should show them a little more respect, too.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81618 Mar 3, 2013
Here dahgts, read this and tell me it's all about safety:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03/the-...

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81619 Mar 3, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>If you don't like the laws, take it up with the legislators.

If the only time you encounter law enforcement officers is when you get a ticket for failure to comply with a law (stupid as you think the law is), then consider yourself very lucky. You may not like when they try to be polite or civil during your interactions, but you would be much more upset if they were condescending or rude.

LEOs do so much more than write seat belt tickets. I am not saying that every officer is perfect, but each person they pull over could be the person who is going to pull a gun on them or run them over with their car. Each call they go on could be their last. They see the worst that humans can do to each other - the abuse people inflict on innocent children, the hate toward their neighbors, the harm that they do to themselves due to chemical abuse or mental illness. They have to be alert during their whole shift, then go home and compartmentalize so they can try to lead a healthy home life.

You may have a stressful job, but there is not a better than average chance that you will be placing yourself in harm's way everyday, while people treat you like garbage or see you as a target just because of your uniform. If you or your family needed help, you would probably call the police, right? So, maybe you should show them a little more respect, too.
If they weren't pulling people over when they aren't even driving unsafe they wouldn't have to worry about their safety during traffic stops. Despite what laws are police have a lot if discretion too, when it comes to who they pull over and issue tickets to. So it's not just the legislature.

Also, the helpful role police provide in society could be performed without the tax collector aspect they perform ... especially given that they are writing tickets in the vast majority of situations when there is nothing unsafe about the driving, as my article points out.

It's also a bit much to say they are all about my safety, when ticket writing goes up during financially difficult times and state and local is in need of revenue. Seems to me, it's far more about getting $$ from folks than keeping folks safe. It's a racket.
dahgts

Chicago, IL

#81620 Mar 3, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
Here dahgts, read this and tell me it's all about safety:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03/the-...
I didn't say it was all about safety. Yes, the fines are exorbitant but that's not really a valid argument against tickets. You could be affected by someone else not wearing a seatbelt, or speeding. Worse injuries to another could cost you more in taxes or your medical insurance. This is one instance of a domino effect. I guess if the person dies that wouldn't affect you.

Hey, I like nothing more then going 70+ on I57 and I wish I could flash a sign in the back of my car that says "slower traffic stay right", but it's the idiots driving drunk, otherwise impaired, texting, cell use, etc. that can't handle all of the above while going 70+mph. They could all affect you while you're on the road.

Are you saying that ticketing is fine as long as the penalties weren't too high or that it should be a free for all on the road and no tickets? There have always been quotas, although long denied. I remember the good old days when I was young and cute and got out of several speeding tickets.

Your job depends on rules and regulations, doesn't it? And there are some potentially high costs for not following them ?

The cop that gave that seatbelt ticket was too zealous, if that's the word, another cop in the same scenario might not have.

My best friend's niece was killed by a kid speeding through a stop
sign on a rural road. She was a good and productive person. If he would have been stopped before that I really don't care if his fine was 5 bucks or a thousand.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81621 Mar 3, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>If they weren't pulling people over when they aren't even driving unsafe they wouldn't have to worry about their safety during traffic stops. Despite what laws are police have a lot if discretion too, when it comes to who they pull over and issue tickets to. So it's not just the legislature.

Also, the helpful role police provide in society could be performed without the tax collector aspect they perform ... especially given that they are writing tickets in the vast majority of situations when there is nothing unsafe about the driving, as my article points out.

It's also a bit much to say they are all about my safety, when ticket writing goes up during financially difficult times and state and local is in need of revenue. Seems to me, it's far more about getting $$ from folks than keeping folks safe. It's a racket.
Their job is to enforce the law, hence the name Law Enforcement Officers. The politicians create the laws, supposedly as our representatives. Remember, the lowering of the national speed limit in 1974 was part of the Emergency Highway Energy Conservation Act.

The police have some discretion when it comes to writing tickets vs. giving warnings, but they do not create the laws. Checks and balances, you know?
dahgts

Chicago, IL

#81623 Mar 3, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
You still didn't answer the question clearly. Stop pouting and show a little respect for the men and women who put themselves in harm's way every day to keep us safe and enforce the laws. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege.
Right, years ago, an ex SO, a CPD cop who did nothing but traffic, just sat on a city street waiting for speeders, told me how dangerous his job was. I smirked and said yeah, right. A few weeks after that two cops were killed during a traffic stop.

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