Topix Chitown Regulars

[PEllen]

Toj wrote:

Oops. It wasn't Wikipedia. It was Judaism 101. Link: http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Thanks, I was close.

[RACE]

See! Cant wait to disparage anything to do with my religious beliefs. What and why I chose my belief system is not for your "entertainment". See how very, very shallow you are. Thanks for being true to your hatred.

Sam I Am GEAM wrote:

<quoted text>
Well my bad. Please do describe the depth and breadth of your exploration of various theologies and how you came to nest in your current idealism. I eagerly await the entertainment value that your revisionist history will bring.

[RACE]

I provided a definition that said exactly that, I cant help it if you cant read.

Sam I Am GEAM wrote:

<quoted text>
No "we" didn't. You asserted that, I disagree. But don't bother with being accurate, it seldom helps your cause.

[Mimi Seattle]

Sgt__Smith wrote:

<quoted text>
She's got money for cigarettes.

True. However, IMO (not that my opinion really counts here) they should pay for it their own damn selves. They wanna be all grown up and get married, then they should be the ones paying. My parents never paid for a wedding/reception, though they did buy a cake one time, but that was because THEY wanted to.

[Mimi Seattle]

Matilda77 wrote:

<quoted text>
Hell to the no. You want to play grown up, then you can pay for it. We might spring for a decent photographer as our gift to them, but other than that...

This. Seriously, you have about a year, start, and keep talking to them about making sure they have their own place to live, stuff they will need for setting up house, etc. Assume an attitude of them "of course" making their own home, together, separately from everyone else, like independent adults do. Seriously.

[RedheadwGlasses]

They could be working jobs to pay for a wedding instead of visiting Matilda every month.

[Mister Tonka]

Sam I Am GEAM wrote:

<quoted text>
They should be invited, not inviting themselves. You have certainly done more than your share for SIL. Why is J so willing to have her and the fiance around so often? I would have no problem planning a ladies night/weekend for the next time they are going to come visit, and if J enjoys having them around all weekend that much, he can have them all to himself.

got distracted while posting this. not sure if it went thru. granted their situation is not typical, bit their place was her home. did you need an invite from your parents to go home?

[RedheadwGlasses]

I see both sides nits... Matilda's (she didn't sign up for surrogate parenthood when she married j) and the sil.

[RedheadwGlasses]

Sides in this rather.

Nick has my computer. iPad isn't so eas to type on.

[Mister Tonka]

RACE wrote:

To answer your questions,
I think you are wrong to say that people adopt the religion presented. That is the purpose of confirmation, the person CHOOSES to become a member of that religion. How many other religions they have experienced is not relevant, they are choosing and that disputes your statement.
Adopt/choose?? What difference does it make? Why do you hate people who adopt the same religion that their parents have? What is wrong with them?
Why do you place such criteria on whether or you you will respect a person or their faith.
Answer that!
<quoted text>

If you were brouht up catholic, confirmation happens at 13. Is a 13 year old really CHOOSING? Or is he just sticking to the program laid out in front of him since he was born? Yes, idealogocally, confirmation is as you described, but for all intents and purposes, it really isn't.

[Mister Tonka]

Matilda77 wrote:

I just would like enough time to pass where I actually look forward to seeing her again. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all that.

how much time would that be?

[Toj]

Mister Tonka wrote:

<quoted text>I'm the anti jamwow when it comes to housguests. To ME, you're being unreasonable. To ME, a once a month guest is no big deal. But, I'm like Lionel Richie. Easy like sunday morning.
As far as how often I came home? Holidays , if that. It was an 8 hour trip. F that noise.

I totally get how some people have no problem. I even understand the extroverts who need people. What gets me (and I'm not including you in this until you say that it is also how you are) is how extroverts cannot understand the introverts who need downtime. It's quite workable.

I NEED at the minimum 15 minutes when I get home from work before anyone talks to me. It's a transition thing I need. I don't know if that's an introvert trait or not, but it's definitely something I need.

There are times when I could very much tolerate and like a houseguest once a month. But then there are those times I really can't take it. It has to do more about what's going in my life, what type of guest (do I feel I have my me time I need), and the general situation.

I don't see it as a good or bad thing, it just is.(And, once again, I am not talking about you, generally speaking.)

[Toj]

RedheadwGlasses wrote:

Matilda's husband could be taking this personally, as in she doesn't want HIS SISTER to visit. I think framing more as an "I don't want house guests once a month no matter WHO they are."
Matilda... Just wondering, what's your sister been up to lately?

I agree with Sam (who is agrees with you. I hadn't thought of this and it's really obvious.

I do think J just doesn't understand where she is coming from. I don't think he is purposely trying to force people on her, he just doesn't get it.

[RACE]

So, your saying I am right then. I am sure many 13yr olds can understand the concept of joining a religious community. They join clubs, teams and other social communities, is joining a religious community really such a stretch for them mentally?

Mister Tonka wrote:

<quoted text> If you were brouht up catholic, confirmation happens at 13. Is a 13 year old really CHOOSING? Or is he just sticking to the program laid out in front of him since he was born? Yes, idealogocally, confirmation is as you described, but for all intents and purposes, it really isn't.

[Mister Tonka]

RACE wrote:

You're gonna have to read ahead and catch up. We already covered the fact that confirmation is the act of "choosing" your faith.
And if it is indeed a "Fact", please provide supporting documentation.
<quoted text>

Ok. Fact may not be the best word. But are you really going to tell me that at 13 or so, a child who has had little if any exposure to any other religion other than the one he was raised in, has the necessary tools to CHOOSE his religion? I lived it and I don't buy it. Again, I'm not knocking it. It is what it is. THAT confirmation is little more than the next step in the program that ws decied for him at birth.

Honestly, you've got your fire red "I hate sam glasses". You're arguing with the person you saw on that other thread and not arguing the points she's raising.

[RedheadwGlasses]

RACE wrote:

So, your saying I am right then. I am sure many 13yr olds can understand the concept of joining a religious community. They join clubs, teams and other social communities, is joining a religious community really such a stretch for them mentally?
<quoted text>

A 13 up probably lives in more of a bubble than a 19 yo. Let her get into the adult world and get exposed to different ideas and philosophies before committing to something.

[Mister Tonka]

Toj wrote:

I totally get how some people have no problem. I even understand the extroverts who need people. What gets me (and I'm not including you in this until you say that it is also how you are) is how extroverts cannot understand the introverts who need downtime.

Intellectually, discussing it, I get it. But no, I really don't. And I am far from an extrovert. I am not the guy at the party who knows no one but meets everyone. I tend to congregate with people I lready know.

Matilda(or jam) made some comment about having to entertain him. I don't see it that way. If I have visitors, I don't feel any need to entertain them. In-laws, parents, sister, cousin, whoever. They are just exra people who happen to be under my roof for some period of time. I go about my normal business. I don't play host. If I have a game to watch, guess what, they can watch too. Another set of eyes in the room is not going to bother me. But I am not responsible for entertaining you. I say this mainly about family. And if family brings someone with them, that's their job to entertain, not mine.

Toj wrote:

It's quite workable.
I NEED at the minimum 15 minutes when I get home from work before anyone talks to me.

I go lay in bed and play on my phone for 15 min or so. But I really could not care lesss if anyone comes in. Just don't expect me to get up and do anything.

I think I am right on the tightrope of introvert/extrovert. I don't need alone time. I don't feel drained by being around people. But at the same time, I have no need to be around others. I would do fine living alone.

[RACE]

She is not raising a point, she is simply saying that people who have a faith are too dumb to think for themselves. Personally I think she is wrong and I pointed out where she was wrong. If you can show me where she is right, I would accept that. You keep saying that a 13yr does not really choose, but you admit that they are in fact choosing. Well? what is it?

sam says that choosing the religion of your parents is the product of an unthinking person. Do you agree with that? Cant a person choose to follow the same faith as their parents? Why cant they? You call yourself a catholic, but not a practicing one. Are you just too lazy to call yourself something else? You are choosing to remain a catholic, even if only in name. Why? Were you so indoctrinated as a child that now, even as a grown ass man, you cannot choose something else, or is it that you actually have chosen to remain a catholic irrespective of what you were taught as a child.

Mister Tonka wrote:

<quoted text>
Honestly, you've got your fire red "I hate sam glasses". You're arguing with the person you saw on that other thread and not arguing the points she's raising.

[Mister Tonka]

RACE wrote:

So, your saying I am right then. I am sure many 13yr olds can understand the concept of joining a religious community. They join clubs, teams and other social communities, is joining a religious community really such a stretch for them mentally?
<quoted text>

Maybe your experience was differnt than mine, but I don't consider what went down to be a choice. I went to cathlolic school for 12 years. There was never anyone asking me if I wanted to be confirmed. It was just the next step on the ladder. It was assumed. It was part of the program/regimen/curriculum.

[Mister Tonka]

RedheadwGlasses wrote:

<quoted text>
A 13 up probably lives in more of a bubble than a 19 yo. Let her get into the adult world and get exposed to different ideas and philosophies before committing to something.

I agree. The idea is that your parents spoke for you at baptism in making you a member of the church and confirmation is supposed to be you, confirming that decision now that you are all growed up and can think for yourself. I think it would have more meaning if the "all growed up" kid was really all growed up. Wait till they are out of the house and not under the thumb of their parents. If they make the choice to be confirmed at that point, I think it would have more meaning than just going thru the motions.