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80,141 - 80,160 of 97,933 Comments Last updated 2 hrs ago

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#81236 Feb 25, 2013
So, your saying I am right then. I am sure many 13yr olds can understand the concept of joining a religious community. They join clubs, teams and other social communities, is joining a religious community really such a stretch for them mentally?
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> If you were brouht up catholic, confirmation happens at 13. Is a 13 year old really CHOOSING? Or is he just sticking to the program laid out in front of him since he was born? Yes, idealogocally, confirmation is as you described, but for all intents and purposes, it really isn't.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81237 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
You're gonna have to read ahead and catch up. We already covered the fact that confirmation is the act of "choosing" your faith.
And if it is indeed a "Fact", please provide supporting documentation.
<quoted text>
Ok. Fact may not be the best word. But are you really going to tell me that at 13 or so, a child who has had little if any exposure to any other religion other than the one he was raised in, has the necessary tools to CHOOSE his religion? I lived it and I don't buy it. Again, I'm not knocking it. It is what it is. THAT confirmation is little more than the next step in the program that ws decied for him at birth.

Honestly, you've got your fire red "I hate sam glasses". You're arguing with the person you saw on that other thread and not arguing the points she's raising.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81238 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
So, your saying I am right then. I am sure many 13yr olds can understand the concept of joining a religious community. They join clubs, teams and other social communities, is joining a religious community really such a stretch for them mentally?
<quoted text>
A 13 up probably lives in more of a bubble than a 19 yo. Let her get into the adult world and get exposed to different ideas and philosophies before committing to something.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81239 Feb 25, 2013
Toj wrote:
I totally get how some people have no problem. I even understand the extroverts who need people. What gets me (and I'm not including you in this until you say that it is also how you are) is how extroverts cannot understand the introverts who need downtime.
Intellectually, discussing it, I get it. But no, I really don't. And I am far from an extrovert. I am not the guy at the party who knows no one but meets everyone. I tend to congregate with people I lready know.

Matilda(or jam) made some comment about having to entertain him. I don't see it that way. If I have visitors, I don't feel any need to entertain them. In-laws, parents, sister, cousin, whoever. They are just exra people who happen to be under my roof for some period of time. I go about my normal business. I don't play host. If I have a game to watch, guess what, they can watch too. Another set of eyes in the room is not going to bother me. But I am not responsible for entertaining you. I say this mainly about family. And if family brings someone with them, that's their job to entertain, not mine.
Toj wrote:
It's quite workable.
I NEED at the minimum 15 minutes when I get home from work before anyone talks to me.
I go lay in bed and play on my phone for 15 min or so. But I really could not care lesss if anyone comes in. Just don't expect me to get up and do anything.

I think I am right on the tightrope of introvert/extrovert. I don't need alone time. I don't feel drained by being around people. But at the same time, I have no need to be around others. I would do fine living alone.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#81240 Feb 25, 2013
She is not raising a point, she is simply saying that people who have a faith are too dumb to think for themselves. Personally I think she is wrong and I pointed out where she was wrong. If you can show me where she is right, I would accept that. You keep saying that a 13yr does not really choose, but you admit that they are in fact choosing. Well? what is it?

sam says that choosing the religion of your parents is the product of an unthinking person. Do you agree with that? Cant a person choose to follow the same faith as their parents? Why cant they? You call yourself a catholic, but not a practicing one. Are you just too lazy to call yourself something else? You are choosing to remain a catholic, even if only in name. Why? Were you so indoctrinated as a child that now, even as a grown ass man, you cannot choose something else, or is it that you actually have chosen to remain a catholic irrespective of what you were taught as a child.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
Honestly, you've got your fire red "I hate sam glasses". You're arguing with the person you saw on that other thread and not arguing the points she's raising.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81241 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
So, your saying I am right then. I am sure many 13yr olds can understand the concept of joining a religious community. They join clubs, teams and other social communities, is joining a religious community really such a stretch for them mentally?
<quoted text>
Maybe your experience was differnt than mine, but I don't consider what went down to be a choice. I went to cathlolic school for 12 years. There was never anyone asking me if I wanted to be confirmed. It was just the next step on the ladder. It was assumed. It was part of the program/regimen/curriculum.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81242 Feb 25, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
A 13 up probably lives in more of a bubble than a 19 yo. Let her get into the adult world and get exposed to different ideas and philosophies before committing to something.
I agree. The idea is that your parents spoke for you at baptism in making you a member of the church and confirmation is supposed to be you, confirming that decision now that you are all growed up and can think for yourself. I think it would have more meaning if the "all growed up" kid was really all growed up. Wait till they are out of the house and not under the thumb of their parents. If they make the choice to be confirmed at that point, I think it would have more meaning than just going thru the motions.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#81243 Feb 25, 2013
You guys keep saying that a 13 cant really choose, but they can. They choose to join a church, like they choose to join the football team. They may not last in that church or on that team, but its never a lifetime commitment unless you choose to make it one. The kid can always join another church, or switch to the basketball team. But they are indeed making that choice, no matter how little or fully educated about all the choices available.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#81244 Feb 25, 2013
You mean to tell me that you did not know you had a choice?
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe your experience was differnt than mine, but I don't consider what went down to be a choice. I went to cathlolic school for 12 years. There was never anyone asking me if I wanted to be confirmed. It was just the next step on the ladder. It was assumed. It was part of the program/regimen/curriculum.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81245 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
You guys keep saying that a 13 cant really choose, but they can. They choose to join a church, like they choose to join the football team. They may not last in that church or on that team, but its never a lifetime commitment unless you choose to make it one. The kid can always join another church, or switch to the basketball team. But they are indeed making that choice, no matter how little or fully educated about all the choices available.
But there are families and fAith communities tha are overbearing and deviating from their expectations would not be accepted. Kids figure this put early on.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#81246 Feb 25, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
I think I am right on the tightrope of introvert/extrovert. I don't need alone time. I don't feel drained by being around people. But at the same time, I have no need to be around others. I would do fine living alone.
Dickie and I heard a radio story about salespeople (that was the only reason he was paying attention) and the interviewee described the best sales folks as ambiverts.

Basically they roll with the flow; sounds a lot like you.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81247 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
She is not raising a point, she is simply saying that people who have a faith are too dumb to think for themselves.
No, that's what you want to put in her mouth. She's said it over and over. A person who was raised in a certain religion is most likely going to remain a member of that religion. That's fact. You want to read insult.

You were raised as some sort of Christian. Besides slim and none, what were the chances of you ever becoming a Jew? A Muslim? Sure, at confirmation, you CHOSE to remain a part of the church, but did you really?
RACE wrote:
You keep saying that a 13yr does not really choose, but you admit that they are in fact choosing.
No, I admit that that is what the sacrament of confirmation is billed as. But I don't really buy it. At 13, you're joust sticking with the curriculum.
RACE wrote:
sam says that choosing the religion of your parents is the product of an unthinking person. Do you agree with that?
To an extent, yes. I never thought about it. I just went with what I was taught. Once I left home, going to church tapered off real quick. I still identify as catholic, not because I made any choice, but simply because I don't give it much thought.
RACE wrote:
Cant a person choose to follow the same faith as their parents? Why cant they?
Sure they can. Never said they couldn't.
RACE wrote:
You call yourself a catholic, but not a practicing one. Are you just too lazy to call yourself something else?
Sure. Why not.
RACE wrote:
You are choosing to remain a catholic, even if only in name. Why? Were you so indoctrinated as a child that now, even as a grown ass man, you cannot choose something else,
No. I'm just apthetic. Don't care that much.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81248 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
You mean to tell me that you did not know you had a choice?
<quoted text>
Again, perhaps your experience was different. I went to Catholic school. Religion class every day. Morning prayers. School assembly mass for special events. Good friday. Ash Wednesday. Church on Sunday. Being catholic was just a way of life.

Did I know I had a choice? Sure. That's what confirmation is. YOU making the choice for you. But when you grew up not really learning about any other options religion wise, what other choice would you make? What reason would you have for not wanting to get confirmed, especially when the other 59 kids in class are getting confirmed? What would your motivation be to opt out and disappoint your parents who are, just like everyone at school, making a big big deal out of it? Other than rebellion, I'm not seeing a reason. I'm not seeing many 13 year olds critically analyzing this CHOICE. If you knew a majority of 13 year olds who were, you knew a lot more mature and self aware 13 year olds than I grew up with.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81249 Feb 25, 2013
squishymama wrote:
<quoted text>
Dickie and I heard a radio story about salespeople (that was the only reason he was paying attention) and the interviewee described the best sales folks as ambiverts.
Basically they roll with the flow; sounds a lot like you.
New term. I like it.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81250 Feb 25, 2013
Except the part about being good in sales. I'd starve if I had to convince people to buy stuff from me.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#81251 Feb 25, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
New term. I like it.
I thought you might.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#81252 Feb 25, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
Except the part about being good in sales. I'd starve if I had to convince people to buy stuff from me.
Me too. Or have a nervous breakdown.

But the author seemed to think we're all salespeople, selling ourselves or getting people to do what we want. You do a pretty good job of doing that here.

Oh, I found where Dickie wrote the book title down (he's gonna use it to look like the smarty pants at work).

To Sell is Human by David Pink

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81253 Feb 25, 2013
I've had a few salespeople tr to hire me. I love talking to strangers.

I have no desire to sell stuff to people, meet quotas, etc.

****

I was raised Lutheran. We quit going to church when I was 10. My mom loves to sleep in on the weekends. Church interfered with that. But she became lutheran(from catholic) to marry my dad. that religion didn't mean much to her. If dad had become catholic, I'm sure we would have been raised catholic and we would have kept going to church longer.

Then around age 20 I met and dated a Jew just as I was starting to be interested in being a part of a religious community. I knew I didn't believe in Jesus, so Judaism was a logical leap. I took a year of Hebrew classes and a year of Judaism clases and converted.

Within a few years, I no longer believed any of the Jude's Christian belief system. Looked into Buddhism. It offers a lot and is by far my forte religion, and s
One of the least harmful of the major religions.

Now I'm nothing but human and I'm very comfortable with that.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81254 Feb 25, 2013
Judeo Christian, rather. iPad autocorrect.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81255 Feb 25, 2013
On to lighter fare....
I watched the whole oscars show last night. I rarely see an Oscar movie so now I'm thinking of trying to watch movies alone at home.
Or tv shows. I never saw freaks and geeks. So ma ny cast members have gone on to have good careers. Did anyone here watch it?

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