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Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81135 Feb 25, 2013
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, you villanize me to generate something else to argue against since you can't argue the point. And you're projecting. Once again your disdain for me personally precludes you from staying on point.
The point is not my regard or lack thereof for religion or religious people. The point is that most people of faith don't choose their religion, they adopt it. You made the statement about "hey if the first thing I experience works for me then what's wrong with that?" My response was and continues to be that that is not choosing. That is simply accepting what is laid out for you by someone else. That is the point. Contest that. We all know you want me to die in some horribile, painful manner. Quit beating that drum and actually address the substance of a position and not just your disdain for that position.
I don't have anything against people of faith, provided they have made a choice and have not simply accepted whatever was handed down to them. Taking whatever your parents handed you and running with it because it's what you know is not a choice. Address that point. Bet you won't!
I agree with you until you get to the point of "don't have anything against people of faith, provided they made a choice and have not simply accepted whatever was handed down to them". And it's not b/c I followed that path for awhile, it's simply b/c I don't care how someone came to their faith. It's personal to them. I just don't want them preaching to me how I should believe in this or that.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81136 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
No, I was raised in one religion, went to a catholic school, and then had to join another another church when my father remarried. I dont subscribe to any particular faith, but I do believe in a creator, and I believe my creator wants me to do many of the things that others read about in their books. I believe that if you need a organized religion, and a specific place to practice that religion, then have at it. If you need to believe that the Jesus is the son of God, and his death washes away your sins and thru that you can get into heaven, then have at it.
For me, I am in church when I am on my boat, and I probably thank God for my blessings more often than most. I dont need a building to give thanks or pray, and I dont need someone to talk to God on my behalf to be forgiven my sins. But I dont knock those that do.
As for sam, you have not read some of the spiteful, taunting, and down right mean things she has said to people who have faith. There is/was a thread where people were simply posting that they loved jesus, loved God and loved to pray. Her comments to them was disgusting, and unwarranted. Dont believe me? Use your magical google powers and find that thread and read her posts for yourself.
<quoted text>
I'm not going to google it b/c, frankly, both of you are too old to be using the "she/he started it first!" bit. Quit continuing it, then.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81137 Feb 25, 2013
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
They should be invited, not inviting themselves. You have certainly done more than your share for SIL. Why is J so willing to have her and the fiance around so often? I would have no problem planning a ladies night/weekend for the next time they are going to come visit, and if J enjoys having them around all weekend that much, he can have them all to himself.
I disagree. Matilda and J have made their place her home. Home is teh place where , when you have to go there , they have to take you in.(That's a quote or at least a paraphrase).

The need for private time is valid. It was only 6 months ago when Matilda was counting the days til she got her house and her husband back. But I can't think of a good way to say, don't come around so often.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#81138 Feb 25, 2013
I dont know about your confirmation, but mine was a formal acceptance of the religion. Maybe you need to learn what a confirmation is first

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation

Here is a quote In Protestant churches, the rite tends to be seen rather as a mature statement of faith by an already baptised person. It is also required by most Protestant denominations for membership in the respective church, in particular for traditional Protestant churches. In traditional Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran etc.) it is recognized by a coming of age ceremony.

Perhaps you mean that you felt you had no choice but to accept that religion. So for you, choosing was no choice at all. Your loss.

And as for your criticism of people being a certain faith...
If two peeps belong to a church, one was born and raised in that faith, the other was a godless heathen who wandered the world learning many religions and finally settling on this same faith, what is your criticism? Who do you criticize? Why?
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrongo bongo. Confirmation has nothing to do with choosing. Confirmation is simply part of the process that is part of the religion you adopted. I went through it. So did many of my friends. And we didn't choose to go through it. We went through it because it was what was expected of us. And please don't insult my intelligence or yours by trying to assert that that's the exception.
As I said before, and I'll say again, if people are religious, fine, have at it, but my criticism comes in when they are of a certain faith just because of tradition and not because of any critical thinking, including the consideration of other faiths. There are a number of major religions with key differences. I do count it as a knock against someone if they put more thought into which car to buy than into which religion to practice.
I do also count it as a knock against someone if they use religion to justify bad behavior, as many do with homosexuality. The Christian Bible is routinely cited as a justification for homophobic behavior/views. Some who promote their faith the most vigorously are those who act most inconsistently with that faith. Look at Mutt. He is a professed Christian, but do you think Jesus would look kindly upon Mutt calling women "whores" and "bitches" and some of the other vitriolic things he has said? Does your God tell you that wishing cancer and car accidents on someone is consistent with his teachings? If so, I would like to see your copy of the Bible.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81139 Feb 25, 2013
Matilda77 wrote:
Totally not trying to steer the conversation away from religion but...quick poll:
Those of you that went away to college and stayed in a dorm, how often did you come home?
J and I had a blowout last night after SIL and her fiance left--SIL has been home at least once a month since she left for school. Since November, she's had her fiance with her every time, which means there's somebody sleeping in my living room every morning. I'm tired of houseguests. J doesn't see how it's an inconvenience. They come home Friday evening--about an hour after I get home from work and leave right as I'm about to go to bed Sunday night. That's my entire weekend.
Blowup occurred after SIL saw an invite we got for a first birthday party for a friend's kid in three weeks. SIL's all "Oh, I'll have to come back for that!" J's all "Yeah!"
Granted, they go out and do stuff when they're here, and I have my own social life, but fuuuuuuck. I don't want this go on for the next 3.5 years. I'm TIRED, y'all. Am I being unreasonable?
I went to Chamapaign . My parents lived in Evanston, roughly a 3+ hour drive or a ride on teh IC( sometimes teh real City of New Orleans). I proably came home about every 6-8 weeks including teh official holidays and breaks, but my boyfriend/fiance was up here. Mostly he came down but sometimes I came up.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81140 Feb 25, 2013
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a horrible oversight. How do you think Seth did? I think he did fine, and I think that if people didn't come in with a preconceived notion of him from his involvement in Family Guy, the reviews of his performance would be even better.
I don't thnk he did well, but I blame the writers. I love Seth and think he's hilarious and brilliant and hot as hell, but man, I thought all the song and dance stuff waw awful.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#81141 Feb 25, 2013
So your not saying that people with faith are stupid, just that they act stupid because they have faith. What is your hangup with whether people in the same community practice the same faith?
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
First, you accusing someone else of painting with a broad brush is HILARIOUS. Second, the fact remains that, in country after country, community after community, there is a prevailing religion, and not by a small margin. If people were typically examining other options, that would not be the case. Or do you assert that 80% of one community continues one behavior, while 80% of another community continues a different behavior, and both are the result of critical analysis/independent thinking? Third, I never said people of faith are incapable of independent thought. Please show me where I did. The effect of my statement is that they decline to exercise independent thought. Utilization and capacity are two different things. Just like I don't think you don't have a brain, I just think you don't use it as often as you should.

“Fort Kickass”

Since: Sep 09

Bloomington, IL

#81142 Feb 25, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Matilda and J have made their place her home. Home is teh place where , when you have to go there , they have to take you in.(That's a quote or at least a paraphrase).
The need for private time is valid. It was only 6 months ago when Matilda was counting the days til she got her house and her husband back. But I can't think of a good way to say, don't come around so often.
That's my problem with saying something. She's not welcome at her parent's house, really. I mean, they'd say she was but their actions indicate the exact opposite. If she doesn't have our home, she has no home, and that's not really right. I just would like enough time to pass where I actually look forward to seeing her again. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all that.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#81143 Feb 25, 2013
And you need to drop the mommy complex. I did not say she started it, I simply told you where you can find a true statement of her attitude. If your not willing to do that, then dont profess to know what she is saying.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not going to google it b/c, frankly, both of you are too old to be using the "she/he started it first!" bit. Quit continuing it, then.

Since: Mar 09

Miami, FL

#81144 Feb 25, 2013
I watched The Amazing Race too and turned on the Oscars afterward but went to bed around 10:30, right after Anne Hathaway winning BSA. So I missed the "big ones" and actually just now looked them up - I forgot this morning and this convo reminded me.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81145 Feb 25, 2013
You know who could host? Neil Patrick Harris-- only host AS BARNEY.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81146 Feb 25, 2013
PEllen wrote:
The need for private time is valid. It was only 6 months ago when Matilda was counting the days til she got her house and her husband back. But I can't think of a good way to say, don't come around so often.
I think they need to phrase it as, "You need to stay at school for a couple of months and make FRIENDS. The friends you make there could last you a life time. You never know."

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81147 Feb 25, 2013
j_m_w wrote:
I watched The Amazing Race too and turned on the Oscars afterward but went to bed around 10:30, right after Anne Hathaway winning BSA. So I missed the "big ones" and actually just now looked them up - I forgot this morning and this convo reminded me.
Her speech was rambly and awkward.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81148 Feb 25, 2013
Matilda77 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's my problem with saying something. She's not welcome at her parent's house, really. I mean, they'd say she was but their actions indicate the exact opposite. If she doesn't have our home, she has no home, and that's not really right. I just would like enough time to pass where I actually look forward to seeing her again. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all that.
Watch her finish school and move back to your area, and she'll be over at your place all the time.

SHe'll be with you for the whole summer this year, I assume?

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81149 Feb 25, 2013
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>Wrongo bongo. Confirmation has nothing to do with choosing. Confirmation is simply part of the process that is part of the religion you adopted. I went through it. So did many of my friends. And we didn't choose to go through it. We went through it because it was what was expected of us. And please don't insult my intelligence or yours by trying to assert that that's the exception.

As I said before, and I'll say again, if people are religious, fine, have at it, but my criticism comes in when they are of a certain faith just because of tradition and not because of any critical thinking, including the consideration of other faiths. There are a number of major religions with key differences. I do count it as a knock against someone if they put more thought into which car to buy than into which religion to practice.

I do also count it as a knock against someone if they use religion to justify bad behavior, as many do with homosexuality. The Christian Bible is routinely cited as a justification for homophobic behavior/views. Some who promote their faith the most vigorously are those who act most inconsistently with that faith. Look at Mutt. He is a professed Christian, but do you think Jesus would look kindly upon Mutt calling women "whores" and "bitches" and some of the other vitriolic things he has said? Does your God tell you that wishing cancer and car accidents on someone is consistent with his teachings? If so, I would like to see your copy of the Bible.
In the Catholic Church, confirmation is when people choose to become adult members of the church (as opposed to baptism, in which the parents and godparents speak for the child).

In CA we received confirmation during our sophomore year of high school. I told my parents after freshman year that I didn't want to be confirmed because I thought that the program was focusing too much on money and not enough on the meaning of confirmation and how the teachings of the church affect us as adults. My parents did not make me go to classes once I explained how I came to my decision and my concerns with the church. I still attended the Catholic HS and sang in the folk group at mass (I was even a paid soloist at weddings), but I did not want to be a hypocrite.

I love that my parents raised me to ask questions and make my own decisions. I have made plenty of mistakes, but I own them. I wish more parents would encourage their children to do the same.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81150 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
I dont know about your confirmation, but mine was a formal acceptance of the religion. Maybe you need to learn what a confirmation is first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation
Here is a quote In Protestant churches, the rite tends to be seen rather as a mature statement of faith by an already baptised person. It is also required by most Protestant denominations for membership in the respective church, in particular for traditional Protestant churches. In traditional Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran etc.) it is recognized by a coming of age ceremony.
Perhaps you mean that you felt you had no choice but to accept that religion. So for you, choosing was no choice at all. Your loss.
And as for your criticism of people being a certain faith...
If two peeps belong to a church, one was born and raised in that faith, the other was a godless heathen who wandered the world learning many religions and finally settling on this same faith, what is your criticism? Who do you criticize? Why?
<quoted text>
I have to go with Sam on the Confirmation thing. If I said I didn't want to make my Confirmation (made it in 8th grade) all hell would have broke lose. Figuratively. For the nuns, priests, teachers and my parents they would have thought literally.

Technically I had a choice. But not really.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81151 Feb 25, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
In the Catholic Church, confirmation is when people choose to become adult members of the church (as opposed to baptism, in which the parents and godparents speak for the child).
In CA we received confirmation during our sophomore year of high school. I told my parents after freshman year that I didn't want to be confirmed because I thought that the program was focusing too much on money and not enough on the meaning of confirmation and how the teachings of the church affect us as adults. My parents did not make me go to classes once I explained how I came to my decision and my concerns with the church. I still attended the Catholic HS and sang in the folk group at mass (I was even a paid soloist at weddings), but I did not want to be a hypocrite.
I love that my parents raised me to ask questions and make my own decisions. I have made plenty of mistakes, but I own them. I wish more parents would encourage their children to do the same.
You were lucky. My mother was too scared to question religion. She would listen to our discussions and participate in them but she never waivered nor gave any personal feelings except those repeated from what she was taught. She really believed that the priests, cardinals, etc. all the way up to the pope could never do wrong. Never. God was speaking through them. That's what she believed.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81152 Feb 25, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
Watch her finish school and move back to your area, and she'll be over at your place all the time.
SHe'll be with you for the whole summer this year, I assume?
Are you TRYING to get Matilda depressed? ;)

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Cedar Grove, TN

#81153 Feb 25, 2013
RACE wrote:
I dont know about your confirmation, but mine was a formal acceptance of the religion. Maybe you need to learn what a confirmation is first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation
Here is a quote In Protestant churches, the rite tends to be seen rather as a mature statement of faith by an already baptised person. It is also required by most Protestant denominations for membership in the respective church, in particular for traditional Protestant churches. In traditional Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran etc.) it is recognized by a coming of age ceremony.
Perhaps you mean that you felt you had no choice but to accept that religion. So for you, choosing was no choice at all. Your loss.
And as for your criticism of people being a certain faith...
If two peeps belong to a church, one was born and raised in that faith, the other was a godless heathen who wandered the world learning many religions and finally settling on this same faith, what is your criticism? Who do you criticize? Why?
<quoted text>
Um, I know what confirmation is. And you continue to miss the point. Confirmation is just a continuation of the acceptance of a tradition. I went through it when I was 13, and it was just part of the deal of going to church. I "chose" to go through confirmation in the same fashion that I "chose" to go to school. it was just part of the deal. As for your two people, I appreciate the second person on this issue as they came to their position after giving the matter consideration.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81154 Feb 25, 2013
Matilda77 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's my problem with saying something. She's not welcome at her parent's house, really. I mean, they'd say she was but their actions indicate the exact opposite. If she doesn't have our home, she has no home, and that's not really right. I just would like enough time to pass where I actually look forward to seeing her again. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all that.
Where does the fiance live? Do they go there? I know her school. There are things to do that aren't that long a drive and don't cost much.

What if you put together an itinerary and fronted gas money?

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