“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81055 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
I really think folks who are religious should ask themselves how they would feel about their religion if they hadn't been exposed to it until they were say 15 or 16. I bet very few of them would buy into it if that were the case.
I was brought up Jewish and went to Sunday school from kindergarten. By the time I graduated high school I had it with the organization on either the Reform, Conservative or Traditional levels. What I was left with, and retain, is a belief in God. That has been something I have relied on, fallen back on, sought out in various ways and in various denominations over the years.

My husband was brought up Protestant. We agreed to bring the girls up in a church but also exposed them to Jewish services, traditions and food. For the older one, nothing stuck and she declined to be confirmed. The younger one clicked. She was going to services, usually Mass, at least thru college. For her it is a support.

The irony is that older one is dating a Jewish guy. It is that component of her upbringing that she using at present.

Since: Mar 09

West Palm Beach, FL

#81056 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
I really think folks who are religious should ask themselves how they would feel about their religion if they hadn't been exposed to it until they were say 15 or 16. I bet very few of them would buy into it if that were the case.
I didn't grow up in a Christian home with Christian parents, and I was 16 when I made the choice for myself to become one.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81057 Feb 24, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I'm up watching a rerun of bones. She's pregnant and due soon. She wants a home birth he does not. He is catholic and wants the baby to be baptized and she doesn't see the point, as an atheist. They compromise. Se says they'll do a home birth *and* they can baptize the baby. "Mythology gives children a way to make sense of the world.

Him: ".my religion is not mythology."

INTERESTING!!!

To atheists, your religious beliefs ARE mythology. No different than Zeus, Adonis, hades, etc. that really is what it is like to most atheists. But the dismissiveness and bluntness is off putting. Disrespectful, really. How is a believer supposed to just chuck out everything he's learned and believed over his lifetime?

And for people whose religious beliefs give them positive things, do we want them to chuck their beliefs?

Of the families (in real life)I know who do volunteer work, all are conservative Christians.

Just thinking out loud.
I am realizing more and more how fortunate I was to go to a Catholic hs that taught that science and religion are not incompatible. In fact, the more I learn about science, the harder it is for me to believe that this is all a series of mistakes or coincidences - the universe is too complex for that. That should not stop us from trying to better understand the universe we live in. However, we were also taught that much of the Bible should be read as parables as opposed to a history book.

I have gone to some Christian churches recently that focus on Jesus the man, the son of God. They talk about what he did and how we should strive to be more like him. I find this off putting because as a Catholic we focus more on the divinity as opposed to the humanity.

I think the most important lessons that I learned at church, though, are love your neighbor as yourself and judge not lest ye be judged. I do not agree with all of my Church's policies, just as I do not agree with all of my political party's platforms, but I think that the main tenets are borne of love, charity and compassion. I try to live my life not as the person that I think other adults would think highly of, but as a person that my sons would be proud of. I don't need a book to tell me how to do that, but I find that my beliefs are not in contradiction to the Ten Commandments.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81058 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
I really think folks who are religious should ask themselves how they would feel about their religion if they hadn't been exposed to it until they were say 15 or 16. I bet very few of them would buy into it if that were the case.
My mom took us to church, but my dad would actually say to me before we left "They are all a$$holes and full of $hit." I didn't go for years from the time I moved to NJ until about 7 years ago. He still says "I didn't raise you to be a church person." I took my grandparents to their church (Presbyterian) for a couple of years.

This was a decision I made as an adult both for the spiritual and the community aspects.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#81059 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
My youngest son had a sleep over last Saturday and the parents took him to church with them on Sunday. Bambi and I laughed, but we were okay with it. We aren't militant about it ... One day of church isn't gonna indoctrinate him.
This act would not bother me even though I don't go to church, however, it seems odd for 2 reasons. I just think it would be strange taking someone else's kid to church without asking or knowing ahead of time if they attend or if theit parents are ok with it. Did they assume is was ok? Did they assume your family goes to church? What if the friend sleeping over was hindu/jewish/muslim? Wonder if that would have made a difference.

The other thing that seems odd is clothes. While I never wore suits and stuff to church, the "nice" clothes I did wear was certainly not the type of clothes I'd be takiing to a sleepover. What did he wear?

Incidentally, someone's been talking to my kid bout God. Not sure who. He seems to have questions or comments about God quite a bit lately and wants to go to church. So we are going to go to church next Sunday. Will be first trip to church for me (other than weddings and baptisms) in over 10 years

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81060 Feb 24, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I am realizing more and more how fortunate I was to go to a Catholic hs that taught that science and religion are not incompatible. In fact, the more I learn about science, the harder it is for me to believe that this is all a series of mistakes or coincidences - the universe is too complex for that. That should not stop us from trying to better understand the universe we live in. However, we were also taught that much of the Bible should be read as parables as opposed to a history book.
I have gone to some Christian churches recently that focus on Jesus the man, the son of God. They talk about what he did and how we should strive to be more like him. I find this off putting because as a Catholic we focus more on the divinity as opposed to the humanity.
I think the most important lessons that I learned at church, though, are love your neighbor as yourself and judge not lest ye be judged. I do not agree with all of my Church's policies, just as I do not agree with all of my political party's platforms, but I think that the main tenets are borne of love, charity and compassion. I try to live my life not as the person that I think other adults would think highly of, but as a person that my sons would be proud of. I don't need a book to tell me how to do that, but I find that my beliefs are not in contradiction to the Ten Commandments.
I went to a Catholic grade school that was heavily into science and math. Evolution was not only taught but was believed in. It was never doubted nor even questioned nor thought that it was in contradiction to the religious beliefs.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81061 Feb 24, 2013
I ran into this article. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/subu...

It's about the Daughters of the American Revolution. Anyone know the upside or downside to joining such organization?

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81062 Feb 24, 2013
Prudy on Thursdya. Did you guys SEE it? http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prude...

First letter:
Dear Prudence,
My wife and I live in a small apartment at the back of our landlords' lot. They are a sweet, retired couple who have been very kind to us. The back door of their house faces our front door, and we walk past it when we come and go. One morning we decided to take our dog on a quick walk before leaving for work, which we don't normally do. When we returned, as we came around the back of the landlords' house we caught the man with his pants down, apparently having sex with his dog. He very quickly stood up, pulled up his pants, and acted as if he was just tying his shoe or something. We said good morning and quickly scooted back into our house. My wife and I both asked what the other saw and we were in agreement that him having sex with the dog is what it was. Should we just move out quietly or stay and pretend nothing happened? Do we tell his wife? Do we confront him directly? We are afraid we could get kicked out for speaking up. But I am afraid for my wife's safety. They live with and take care of several young grandchildren and I am afraid for their safety, too.
—Grossed Out

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81063 Feb 24, 2013
Toj wrote:
I ran into this article. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/subu...
It's about the Daughters of the American Revolution. Anyone know the upside or downside to joining such organization?
They were the organization who objected to having a black opera singer at the Washington Memorial but that was the 1930's. My sisters MIL was a member:she said it was a nice ladies club, but Betty would be 94 if she were alive now.

If you qualify and want to be in a nice ladies club, make sure they have modernized their thoughts and go for it.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81064 Feb 24, 2013
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't grow up in a Christian home with Christian parents, and I was 16 when I made the choice for myself to become one.
In western society, especially in America, you are exposed to it. It's not only that, but what you aren't exposed to.

You may have made this choice when you were older, but did you consider following one of the many other religions of the world? Did you even take the time to learn of them, before going with the one you chose? You probably didn't because of cultural norms.

I find it fascinating that people are just so random in their choices of religion, especially given the amount of time, effort, and $$ they spend on them. Not to mention their belief in this notion of salvation in the afterlife.

Given what is at stake according to their beliefs, you would think folks would want to invest more effort in getting it right, exploring options, instead if being like, "Ahhh, I'm just gonna follow this one religion just cause most people in my part of the world do and I think this one is right ... even though I know almost absolutely nothing about the other religions of the world I'm choosing not to follow and couldn't possibly have an informed opinion about the matter for this reason."

I wouldn't call that critical thinking ... I dunno what it is. It's more akin to being a fan of your local professional sports team just because you live close to them. That may be okay for a leisure activity such as watching sports, but for a major aspect of someone's life and afterlife (according to religious folk's beliefs) it seems completely illogical to me.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81065 Feb 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>I was brought up Jewish and went to Sunday school from kindergarten. By the time I graduated high school I had it with the organization on either the Reform, Conservative or Traditional levels. What I was left with, and retain, is a belief in God. That has been something I have relied on, fallen back on, sought out in various ways and in various denominations over the years.

My husband was brought up Protestant. We agreed to bring the girls up in a church but also exposed them to Jewish services, traditions and food. For the older one, nothing stuck and she declined to be confirmed. The younger one clicked. She was going to services, usually Mass, at least thru college. For her it is a support.

The irony is that older one is dating a Jewish guy. It is that component of her upbringing that she using at present.
Choosing to be apart of a group for support or community as Jess said is at least logical.

It has no bearing on truth or even faith, however. It can also be detrimental to the pursuit of truth and seeking the true path to god, if that is something you believe in. This is so, just because you receive support or have a sense of community in your church this has no bearing on whether you are worshipping a true god or are conforming to god's wishes.

Should religion be about making yourself feel good or about salvation? If it's about making yourself feel good, then it's not really any different than any of the myriad of substances or activities that can do the same.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81066 Feb 24, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>My mom took us to church, but my dad would actually say to me before we left "They are all a$$holes and full of $hit." I didn't go for years from the time I moved to NJ until about 7 years ago. He still says "I didn't raise you to be a church person." I took my grandparents to their church (Presbyterian) for a couple of years.

This was a decision I made as an adult both for the spiritual and the community aspects.
I don't think that was right of your father.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81067 Feb 24, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>This act would not bother me even though I don't go to church, however, it seems odd for 2 reasons. I just think it would be strange taking someone else's kid to church without asking or knowing ahead of time if they attend or if theit parents are ok with it. Did they assume is was ok? Did they assume your family goes to church? What if the friend sleeping over was hindu/jewish/muslim? Wonder if that would have made a difference.

The other thing that seems odd is clothes. While I never wore suits and stuff to church, the "nice" clothes I did wear was certainly not the type of clothes I'd be takiing to a sleepover. What did he wear?

Incidentally, someone's been talking to my kid bout God. Not sure who. He seems to have questions or comments about God quite a bit lately and wants to go to church. So we are going to go to church next Sunday. Will be first trip to church for me (other than weddings and baptisms) in over 10 years
No, they called before hand to ask of it was okay.

In terms of dress, that's more of a concern for them, than for us, as far as I'm concerned. Bambi is pretty particular about sending the boys with decent looking clothes and pajamas to school. It wasn't dress clothes, but not junky clothes either.

Me ... onetime my youngest went to school in a sweater vest ... He had a long sleeve shirt on under it at first, but sometime after getting dressed and leaving for the bus he decided he didn't want to wear the shirt under it. HE WENT TO SCHOOL LIKE THAT, and I didn't catch it before he left. You might be a redneck if... Bambi and me still laugh our butts off about that.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81068 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text> Bambi is pretty particular about sending the boys with decent looking clothes and pajamas to school. It wasn't dress clothes, but not junky clothes either..
I mention to say school and play dates. You know how women are and the pressure they put on themselves to be a good mom. Me, I just go through life by the seat of my pants, lol.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81069 Feb 24, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>They were the organization who objected to having a black opera singer at the Washington Memorial but that was the 1930's. My sisters MIL was a member:she said it was a nice ladies club, but Betty would be 94 if she were alive now.
If you qualify and want to be in a nice ladies club, make sure they have modernized their thoughts and go for it.
I hear you. That's why I was asking. I don't want to belong to anything that would discriminate or think they're better than everyone else. I imagine whatever group someone may join, their can be members who are like that but I'm thinking more in terms of the majority or the groups beliefs.

I think the history side of it is interesting and that's why I would be interested in DAR. Meeting the requirements isn't anything great or bad -- it's something I didn't do I was just born.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81070 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think that was right of your father.
He had some pretty bad experiences with hypocritical Sunday school teachers and parents why discouraged questions but said that you go to church and follow doctrine "just because", so I don't blame him for his negative reactions to organized religion. He also waited until I was old enough to question authority before he started saying that and I found out that he never said those things to my brothers (who by the way have no desire to belong to an organized religion now, despite also being products of the same catholic high school).

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81071 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Choosing to be apart of a group for support or community as Jess said is at least logical.
It has no bearing on truth or even faith, however. It can also be detrimental to the pursuit of truth and seeking the true path to god, if that is something you believe in. This is so, just because you receive support or have a sense of community in your church this has no bearing on whether you are worshipping a true god or are conforming to god's wishes.
Should religion be about making yourself feel good or about salvation? If it's about making yourself feel good, then it's not really any different than any of the myriad of substances or activities that can do the same.
Personally, choices such as religion is about whatever the person wants to make it about. It's a personal choice and whether they choose to dive into research about it, what they get out of it, etc. is their perogative and I wouldn't question it. I don't think I have a right to question them.

To ask someone about their religion or why they are in it and what it's about to gain knowledge about that religion would be showing an interest and I see no problem with that.

Fine line, I know, but that's how I see it.

Since: Mar 09

West Palm Beach, FL

#81072 Feb 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
In western society, especially in America, you are exposed to it. It's not only that, but what you aren't exposed to.
You may have made this choice when you were older, but did you consider following one of the many other religions of the world? Did you even take the time to learn of them, before going with the one you chose? You probably didn't because of cultural norms.
I find it fascinating that people are just so random in their choices of religion, especially given the amount of time, effort, and $$ they spend on them. Not to mention their belief in this notion of salvation in the afterlife.
Given what is at stake according to their beliefs, you would think folks would want to invest more effort in getting it right, exploring options, instead if being like, "Ahhh, I'm just gonna follow this one religion just cause most people in my part of the world do and I think this one is right ... even though I know almost absolutely nothing about the other religions of the world I'm choosing not to follow and couldn't possibly have an informed opinion about the matter for this reason."
I wouldn't call that critical thinking ... I dunno what it is. It's more akin to being a fan of your local professional sports team just because you live close to them. That may be okay for a leisure activity such as watching sports, but for a major aspect of someone's life and afterlife (according to religious folk's beliefs) it seems completely illogical to me.
I'm not going to argue or get defensive, I was just commenting on how it was for me. "Exposed" is a vague word... to use your sports analogy, many people have seen a baseball game but one doesn't understand the details or the point of the game until someone explains to them what's going on. FWIW, I had taken a world religions class in school prior to this.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81073 Feb 24, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>Personally, choices such as religion is about whatever the person wants to make it about. It's a personal choice and whether they choose to dive into research about it, what they get out of it, etc. is their perogative and I wouldn't question it. I don't think I have a right to question them.
I never said it wasn't their prerogative. In fact I think I said folks are free to do what they wish. However folks are free to judge you. Freedom isn't a one way street.

Given the importance of religion in society, the amount of resources it consumes in our society, the horrible harms and divisiveness it generates in society, the fact that it historically has been imposed on folks, its natural that folks would analyze it more closely than say what your favorite color is.

That the thought process isn't favorable doesn't change any if this. Folks are free to ignore what is pointed out to them in this regard, but its a bit much to say folks can't state their opinion on the matter.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81074 Feb 24, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>He had some pretty bad experiences with hypocritical Sunday school teachers and parents why discouraged questions but said that you go to church and follow doctrine "just because", so I don't blame him for his negative reactions to organized religion. He also waited until I was old enough to question authority before he started saying that and I found out that he never said those things to my brothers (who by the way have no desire to belong to an organized religion now, despite also being products of the same catholic high school).
It sounds like he was a thinker and they couldn't answer his questions so they just resorted to "just because." That and just have faith doesn't work for a lot of folks.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Chicago Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas decl... (Jan '09) 12 min Mandela 68,566
Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil U... (Dec '10) 27 min KiMare 50,064
Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 27 min RealDave 1,115,622
Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds ... (Dec '08) 56 min Earthling-1 47,070
Minimum Wage and Unemployment Model 5 hr Goh 1
IL Who do you support for Governor in Illinois in ... (Oct '10) 6 hr Top of the Heap 4,054
BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting... (Jan '09) 8 hr WelbyMD 178,617
Chicago Dating
Find my Match

Chicago Jobs

Chicago People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Chicago News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Chicago

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]