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“bELieve”

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#81046
Feb 23, 2013
 
These people make me laugh. Ha ha

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mattbellassai/45-peop...

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#81047
Feb 23, 2013
 

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I'm up watching a rerun of bones. She's pregnant and due soon. She wants a home birth he does not. He is catholic and wants the baby to be baptized and she doesn't see the point, as an atheist. They compromise. Se says they'll do a home birth *and* they can baptize the baby. "Mythology gives children a way to make sense of the world.

Him: ".my religion is not mythology."

INTERESTING!!!

To atheists, your religious beliefs ARE mythology. No different than Zeus, Adonis, hades, etc. that really is what it is like to most atheists. But the dismissiveness and bluntness is off putting. Disrespectful, really. How is a believer supposed to just chuck out everything he's learned and believed over his lifetime?

And for people whose religious beliefs give them positive things, do we want them to chuck their beliefs?

Of the families (in real life)I know who do volunteer work, all are conservative Christians.

Just thinking out loud.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#81048
Feb 24, 2013
 
http://www.topix.com/forum/chicago/TPAAHPTNGC...

Abby

Amy is posted but is taking its time to appear.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#81049
Feb 24, 2013
 

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Tacoma, WA

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#81050
Feb 24, 2013
 
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
My computer is down. Major virus shit going on. Need to take my tower to nicks tomorrow. Wifi works!
Mimi you are a huge animal softie based on your fb posts.
I WANT A KITTEN. More on my plan later.
Oh I so am. I think I'm just a soft touch all the way around. That's the reason I'm giving my sister ANOTHER chance to get her shit together. It *has* to be the reason...that of mental illness. <shrug>

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Tacoma, WA

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#81051
Feb 24, 2013
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
But the dismissiveness and bluntness is off putting. Disrespectful, really.
This. I've had this "discussion" with the husband many, many, many times. One can not expect someone to just throw a lifetime of belief out the window because *you*(the general "you") say that X is better.

I wasn't born an atheist. I've had religious indoctrination. I know stuff. I simply don't believe it. There are many religious people I like very much because even though *I* don't believe in god and all the accoutrements, they are living (or trying to) what they say they believe. Integrity is very important IMO.

Plus it's called "faith" because you either believe or you don't and no amount of pressure, or insults, or threats, or what have you is going to change someone's real true deep down belief. It just won't.

I saw that episode and that kind of irritated me too. Not only was it dismissive and insulting to religious folks, it paints atheists, AND anthropologists in a very negative way. It was insulting to me personally on both of those levels. For the record, most anthropologists would never say something like that because we know stuff about culture, cultural relativism, etc., and take a holistic approach to understanding things. This was so wrong in so many ways.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#81052
Feb 24, 2013
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
Disrespectful, really. How is a believer supposed to just chuck out everything he's learned and believed over his lifetime?
I'm a big believer in reconsidering your view points when new facts come to your attention. It's really the only way to be enlightened. Ignoring facts just cause you've always believed something makes you an idiot, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. That's the sort of thinking that dominated pre-renaissance and pre age of enlightenment type of thinking. If that's how someone wants to live ... So be it, and while I'm not up in folks faces about it, it's how I feel.

How is a believer supposed to just chuck everything ... Pick up a frigin' history book, learn about the history of religion in general and appreciate that Christianity is really a continuation of when folks thought gods lived on mount Olympus and the many other religions that have faded. Its just a new form of the same.

Also pick up a frigin' history book and learn about the history of Christianity ... How it was created ... How a roman autocrat selected bishops to select the gospels that would go into the bible and how the gospel selection was politically motivated to discredit certain early Christian sects ... And appreciate that much of the magical things that Jesus supposedly did according to the bible were put in there because when Christianity was forming it was competing for followers with other religions who had gods that could do all sorts of magical things and because of this they had to invent magical things that Jesus could do too ... They couldn't just be like yeah, we'll Zeus can hurl down lightening bolts and had a son like Hercules with supper human strength, Jesus was just a 155 pound ordinary son of a carpenter who wanted to challenge Jewish religious authority and died because if it (which if you cut through all the b.s. in the bible is exactly who he was)... all those miracles got thrown in there just to compete for recruits, who were simple minded and far more than not less educated than the average 4th grader today and very superstitious.

I see dedicating any time, effort, or money on religion as being akin to standing in the corner ... A complete waste of time ... It would be very hard for me to be with someone in a relationship who was heavily involved in it ... Bambi is more spiritual than a Christian ... She doesn't get caught up in the whole church thing, but she believes in a higher power ... I can respect that.

I could even respect her going to church on her own ... I would not approve of her indoctrinating (brain wash) our children in it before they have the tools to critically think about it all.

None of our children have been baptized, but also we don't have religious discussions with them either ... I really haven't shared my views with them either as that would be just as wrong as pushing Christianity on them. When they get older I will tell them what I believe and why and let them make the OWN choice in terms of whether they wish to learn about and follow any particular religion they may choose.

My youngest son had a sleep over last Saturday and the parents took him to church with them on Sunday. Bambi and I laughed, but we were okay with it. We aren't militant about it ... One day of church isn't gonna indoctrinate him.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#81053
Feb 24, 2013
 
I really think folks who are religious should ask themselves how they would feel about their religion if they hadn't been exposed to it until they were say 15 or 16. I bet very few of them would buy into it if that were the case.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#81054
Feb 24, 2013
 
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>

My youngest son had a sleep over last Saturday and the parents took him to church with them on Sunday. Bambi and I laughed, but we were okay with it. We aren't militant about it ... One day of church isn't gonna indoctrinate him.
Kids are curious by nature and also want to conform. Some parents will see his lack of religious training as an opportunity to save him ,in a kindly sense, by inviting him along to their church. Without anything to compare it to, he is at risk of indoctrination regardless what you and Bambi want to do.

“...,to wit”

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#81055
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
I really think folks who are religious should ask themselves how they would feel about their religion if they hadn't been exposed to it until they were say 15 or 16. I bet very few of them would buy into it if that were the case.
I was brought up Jewish and went to Sunday school from kindergarten. By the time I graduated high school I had it with the organization on either the Reform, Conservative or Traditional levels. What I was left with, and retain, is a belief in God. That has been something I have relied on, fallen back on, sought out in various ways and in various denominations over the years.

My husband was brought up Protestant. We agreed to bring the girls up in a church but also exposed them to Jewish services, traditions and food. For the older one, nothing stuck and she declined to be confirmed. The younger one clicked. She was going to services, usually Mass, at least thru college. For her it is a support.

The irony is that older one is dating a Jewish guy. It is that component of her upbringing that she using at present.

Since: Mar 09

West Palm Beach, FL

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#81056
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
I really think folks who are religious should ask themselves how they would feel about their religion if they hadn't been exposed to it until they were say 15 or 16. I bet very few of them would buy into it if that were the case.
I didn't grow up in a Christian home with Christian parents, and I was 16 when I made the choice for myself to become one.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

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#81057
Feb 24, 2013
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I'm up watching a rerun of bones. She's pregnant and due soon. She wants a home birth he does not. He is catholic and wants the baby to be baptized and she doesn't see the point, as an atheist. They compromise. Se says they'll do a home birth *and* they can baptize the baby. "Mythology gives children a way to make sense of the world.

Him: ".my religion is not mythology."

INTERESTING!!!

To atheists, your religious beliefs ARE mythology. No different than Zeus, Adonis, hades, etc. that really is what it is like to most atheists. But the dismissiveness and bluntness is off putting. Disrespectful, really. How is a believer supposed to just chuck out everything he's learned and believed over his lifetime?

And for people whose religious beliefs give them positive things, do we want them to chuck their beliefs?

Of the families (in real life)I know who do volunteer work, all are conservative Christians.

Just thinking out loud.
I am realizing more and more how fortunate I was to go to a Catholic hs that taught that science and religion are not incompatible. In fact, the more I learn about science, the harder it is for me to believe that this is all a series of mistakes or coincidences - the universe is too complex for that. That should not stop us from trying to better understand the universe we live in. However, we were also taught that much of the Bible should be read as parables as opposed to a history book.

I have gone to some Christian churches recently that focus on Jesus the man, the son of God. They talk about what he did and how we should strive to be more like him. I find this off putting because as a Catholic we focus more on the divinity as opposed to the humanity.

I think the most important lessons that I learned at church, though, are love your neighbor as yourself and judge not lest ye be judged. I do not agree with all of my Church's policies, just as I do not agree with all of my political party's platforms, but I think that the main tenets are borne of love, charity and compassion. I try to live my life not as the person that I think other adults would think highly of, but as a person that my sons would be proud of. I don't need a book to tell me how to do that, but I find that my beliefs are not in contradiction to the Ten Commandments.

“bELieve”

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#81058
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
I really think folks who are religious should ask themselves how they would feel about their religion if they hadn't been exposed to it until they were say 15 or 16. I bet very few of them would buy into it if that were the case.
My mom took us to church, but my dad would actually say to me before we left "They are all a$$holes and full of $hit." I didn't go for years from the time I moved to NJ until about 7 years ago. He still says "I didn't raise you to be a church person." I took my grandparents to their church (Presbyterian) for a couple of years.

This was a decision I made as an adult both for the spiritual and the community aspects.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#81059
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
My youngest son had a sleep over last Saturday and the parents took him to church with them on Sunday. Bambi and I laughed, but we were okay with it. We aren't militant about it ... One day of church isn't gonna indoctrinate him.
This act would not bother me even though I don't go to church, however, it seems odd for 2 reasons. I just think it would be strange taking someone else's kid to church without asking or knowing ahead of time if they attend or if theit parents are ok with it. Did they assume is was ok? Did they assume your family goes to church? What if the friend sleeping over was hindu/jewish/muslim? Wonder if that would have made a difference.

The other thing that seems odd is clothes. While I never wore suits and stuff to church, the "nice" clothes I did wear was certainly not the type of clothes I'd be takiing to a sleepover. What did he wear?

Incidentally, someone's been talking to my kid bout God. Not sure who. He seems to have questions or comments about God quite a bit lately and wants to go to church. So we are going to go to church next Sunday. Will be first trip to church for me (other than weddings and baptisms) in over 10 years

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

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#81060
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I am realizing more and more how fortunate I was to go to a Catholic hs that taught that science and religion are not incompatible. In fact, the more I learn about science, the harder it is for me to believe that this is all a series of mistakes or coincidences - the universe is too complex for that. That should not stop us from trying to better understand the universe we live in. However, we were also taught that much of the Bible should be read as parables as opposed to a history book.
I have gone to some Christian churches recently that focus on Jesus the man, the son of God. They talk about what he did and how we should strive to be more like him. I find this off putting because as a Catholic we focus more on the divinity as opposed to the humanity.
I think the most important lessons that I learned at church, though, are love your neighbor as yourself and judge not lest ye be judged. I do not agree with all of my Church's policies, just as I do not agree with all of my political party's platforms, but I think that the main tenets are borne of love, charity and compassion. I try to live my life not as the person that I think other adults would think highly of, but as a person that my sons would be proud of. I don't need a book to tell me how to do that, but I find that my beliefs are not in contradiction to the Ten Commandments.
I went to a Catholic grade school that was heavily into science and math. Evolution was not only taught but was believed in. It was never doubted nor even questioned nor thought that it was in contradiction to the religious beliefs.

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

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#81061
Feb 24, 2013
 
I ran into this article. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/subu...

It's about the Daughters of the American Revolution. Anyone know the upside or downside to joining such organization?

Toj

“Equality”

Since: Jul 12

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#81062
Feb 24, 2013
 
Prudy on Thursdya. Did you guys SEE it? http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prude...

First letter:
Dear Prudence,
My wife and I live in a small apartment at the back of our landlords' lot. They are a sweet, retired couple who have been very kind to us. The back door of their house faces our front door, and we walk past it when we come and go. One morning we decided to take our dog on a quick walk before leaving for work, which we don't normally do. When we returned, as we came around the back of the landlords' house we caught the man with his pants down, apparently having sex with his dog. He very quickly stood up, pulled up his pants, and acted as if he was just tying his shoe or something. We said good morning and quickly scooted back into our house. My wife and I both asked what the other saw and we were in agreement that him having sex with the dog is what it was. Should we just move out quietly or stay and pretend nothing happened? Do we tell his wife? Do we confront him directly? We are afraid we could get kicked out for speaking up. But I am afraid for my wife's safety. They live with and take care of several young grandchildren and I am afraid for their safety, too.
—Grossed Out

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#81063
Feb 24, 2013
 
Toj wrote:
I ran into this article. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/subu...
It's about the Daughters of the American Revolution. Anyone know the upside or downside to joining such organization?
They were the organization who objected to having a black opera singer at the Washington Memorial but that was the 1930's. My sisters MIL was a member:she said it was a nice ladies club, but Betty would be 94 if she were alive now.

If you qualify and want to be in a nice ladies club, make sure they have modernized their thoughts and go for it.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#81064
Feb 24, 2013
 
j_m_w wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't grow up in a Christian home with Christian parents, and I was 16 when I made the choice for myself to become one.
In western society, especially in America, you are exposed to it. It's not only that, but what you aren't exposed to.

You may have made this choice when you were older, but did you consider following one of the many other religions of the world? Did you even take the time to learn of them, before going with the one you chose? You probably didn't because of cultural norms.

I find it fascinating that people are just so random in their choices of religion, especially given the amount of time, effort, and $$ they spend on them. Not to mention their belief in this notion of salvation in the afterlife.

Given what is at stake according to their beliefs, you would think folks would want to invest more effort in getting it right, exploring options, instead if being like, "Ahhh, I'm just gonna follow this one religion just cause most people in my part of the world do and I think this one is right ... even though I know almost absolutely nothing about the other religions of the world I'm choosing not to follow and couldn't possibly have an informed opinion about the matter for this reason."

I wouldn't call that critical thinking ... I dunno what it is. It's more akin to being a fan of your local professional sports team just because you live close to them. That may be okay for a leisure activity such as watching sports, but for a major aspect of someone's life and afterlife (according to religious folk's beliefs) it seems completely illogical to me.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#81065
Feb 24, 2013
 

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PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>I was brought up Jewish and went to Sunday school from kindergarten. By the time I graduated high school I had it with the organization on either the Reform, Conservative or Traditional levels. What I was left with, and retain, is a belief in God. That has been something I have relied on, fallen back on, sought out in various ways and in various denominations over the years.

My husband was brought up Protestant. We agreed to bring the girls up in a church but also exposed them to Jewish services, traditions and food. For the older one, nothing stuck and she declined to be confirmed. The younger one clicked. She was going to services, usually Mass, at least thru college. For her it is a support.

The irony is that older one is dating a Jewish guy. It is that component of her upbringing that she using at present.
Choosing to be apart of a group for support or community as Jess said is at least logical.

It has no bearing on truth or even faith, however. It can also be detrimental to the pursuit of truth and seeking the true path to god, if that is something you believe in. This is so, just because you receive support or have a sense of community in your church this has no bearing on whether you are worshipping a true god or are conforming to god's wishes.

Should religion be about making yourself feel good or about salvation? If it's about making yourself feel good, then it's not really any different than any of the myriad of substances or activities that can do the same.

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