Topix Chitown Regulars

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#79304 Jan 30, 2013
Gomer Pyle got married and Surprise, Surprise, Suprise....

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#79305 Jan 30, 2013
RACE wrote:
Gomer Pyle got married and Surprise, Surprise, Suprise....
Heh, not really much of a surprise.:) What's more surprising is a relationship in Hollywood lasting 38 years!

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#79306 Jan 30, 2013
I'm using y'all as a resource and sounding board because I'm being lazy. Does anyone have stats on how many gun homicides were committed by people who obtained their guns illegally?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#79307 Jan 30, 2013
They live in Honolulu. So that may explain it.
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
Heh, not really much of a surprise.:) What's more surprising is a relationship in Hollywood lasting 38 years!

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#79308 Jan 30, 2013
Illegally is a broad term (giving a rifle to a kid under 18 is illegal, but if he does not go wonky till after 18, was the gun obtained illegally, even though at present he could legally posses the weapon).

A better stat would be how many lawful gun owners (crazies not included), actually commit a homicide with their weapon.
Jess in NJ wrote:
I'm using y'all as a resource and sounding board because I'm being lazy. Does anyone have stats on how many gun homicides were committed by people who obtained their guns illegally?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#79309 Jan 30, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
I'm using y'all as a resource and sounding board because I'm being lazy. Does anyone have stats on how many gun homicides were committed by people who obtained their guns illegally?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...

Excerpts:

"An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal."

"The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity.""

"ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking."

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#79310 Jan 30, 2013
So, it doesn't really answer your specific question re: homicides, but it does paint a good picture about how guns get moved around.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#79311 Jan 30, 2013
RACE wrote:
Illegally is a broad term (giving a rifle to a kid under 18 is illegal, but if he does not go wonky till after 18, was the gun obtained illegally, even though at present he could legally posses the weapon).
What? Illegal where? Minors in Minnesota can have rifles.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#79312 Jan 30, 2013
I remember watching a news program about an East Coast city (I wish I could remember which city, but I don’t) that established a “three strikes” law. But part of that included funding to inform the public about this law – that if you get caught with a gun while committing a felony and it’s your third strike, you are going to prison for a minimum of X (20, 25) years, just for starters. They put up billboards, signs in bus stops, really informed the lower income parts of the city.

And the use of guns in crimes dropped dramatically. The cops and prosecutors said “No one wants to go to prison. So while these guys didn’t stop committing crimes, at least they didn’t carry guns as much as in the past.” Which is a very good thing. I see that measure as a win all around.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#79313 Jan 30, 2013
Jess in NJ wrote:
I'm using y'all as a resource and sounding board because I'm being lazy. Does anyone have stats on how many gun homicides were committed by people who obtained their guns illegally?
I thought this was a very thoughtful, well put together article.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#79314 Jan 30, 2013
RACE wrote:
<quoted text>Illegally is a broad term (giving a rifle to a kid under 18 is illegal, but if he does not go wonky till after 18, was the gun obtained illegally, even though at present he could legally posses the weapon).

A better stat would be how many lawful gun owners (crazies not included), actually commit a homicide with their weapon.
But that is part of my point. In your scenario, the kid could obtain the gun legally, but he didn't. Tightening the laws won't make any difference, because he wasn't following the ones that were already in existence.

People are more impressed by big numbers and I suspect that the majority of gun homicides are committed by guns that were obtained illegally. Most of the murders aren't mass homicides, they are single or double homicides that don't attract as much attention, especially when they occur in urban areas. From reading the articles in the paper, most of those murders aren't committed using "assault" weapons.

I would like to have educated conversations on this topic, especially among my political associates. My opinion is that our focus needs to be on mental health and on the values that we are teaching our children (words and actions as a society), but I need to be able to back up my discussions with numbers explaining why empty legislation is not the solution.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#79315 Jan 30, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...

Excerpts:

"An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal."

"The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity.""

"ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking."
Thanks! That article helps.
Sam I Am

Cedar Grove, TN

#79316 Jan 30, 2013
RACE wrote:
Illegally is a broad term (giving a rifle to a kid under 18 is illegal, but if he does not go wonky till after 18, was the gun obtained illegally, even though at present he could legally posses the weapon).
A better stat would be how many lawful gun owners (crazies not included), actually commit a homicide with their weapon.
<quoted text>
Don't give your brain a cramp doing those mental gymnastics. Illegally is a broad term? What, so there's illegal, legal and kinda legal? Her question was pretty simple: How many homicides were committed by people who got their guns illegally? Whether or not someone obtained their gun legally is pretty simple to determine. And if someone got their gun illegally when they were 18, and they took no steps to properly register it after they turned 18, then they still own the gun illegally.

Is it your position that anyone who commits murder with a gun is crazy? You keep citing this carve-out for "crazies," like if it weren't for the "crazies" everything would be o.k. with guns and people. You realize, don't you, that there are people who are perfectly sane who are just bad. The way you can rationalize doing things that others view as wrong, they can rationalize killing someone. And they're not crazy, otherwise we'd have a lot more mental institutions and a lot fewer jails.

And you act like people who are crazy are always crazy and are readily detectable. Just like your teen who can't own a gun legally but then turns 18 and can if he does so properly, a person can be walking around perfectly normal, they get a gun legally, then something happens - physical trauma, emotional trauma, etc.- and they turn "crazy." And they still have the gun. So stop acting like not selling guns to "crazies" anymore is any better of a fix than anything else than has been discussed. Just like limiting the size of magazines, "stopping the crazies" is just a small part of the bigger solution.
Sam I Am

Cedar Grove, TN

#79317 Jan 30, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I remember watching a news program about an East Coast city (I wish I could remember which city, but I don’t) that established a “three strikes” law. But part of that included funding to inform the public about this law – that if you get caught with a gun while committing a felony and it’s your third strike, you are going to prison for a minimum of X (20, 25) years, just for starters. They put up billboards, signs in bus stops, really informed the lower income parts of the city.
And the use of guns in crimes dropped dramatically. The cops and prosecutors said “No one wants to go to prison. So while these guys didn’t stop committing crimes, at least they didn’t carry guns as much as in the past.” Which is a very good thing. I see that measure as a win all around.
Agreed.

“bELieve”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#79318 Jan 30, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>What? Illegal where? Minors in Minnesota can have rifles.
In NJ - Rifles and shotguns - 18 years old, handguns and pistols - 21 years old

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#79319 Jan 30, 2013
Sounds to me like you just said it very well.
Jess in NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
But that is part of my point. In your scenario, the kid could obtain the gun legally, but he didn't. Tightening the laws won't make any difference, because he wasn't following the ones that were already in existence.
People are more impressed by big numbers and I suspect that the majority of gun homicides are committed by guns that were obtained illegally. Most of the murders aren't mass homicides, they are single or double homicides that don't attract as much attention, especially when they occur in urban areas. From reading the articles in the paper, most of those murders aren't committed using "assault" weapons.
I would like to have educated conversations on this topic, especially among my political associates. My opinion is that our focus needs to be on mental health and on the values that we are teaching our children (words and actions as a society), but I need to be able to back up my discussions with numbers explaining why empty legislation is not the solution.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#79320 Jan 30, 2013
first hit
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article...
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
What? Illegal where? Minors in Minnesota can have rifles.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#79321 Jan 30, 2013
Florida has 10/20/life but I dont think it seems to be much of a deterrent.
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I remember watching a news program about an East Coast city (I wish I could remember which city, but I don’t) that established a “three strikes” law. But part of that included funding to inform the public about this law – that if you get caught with a gun while committing a felony and it’s your third strike, you are going to prison for a minimum of X (20, 25) years, just for starters. They put up billboards, signs in bus stops, really informed the lower income parts of the city.
And the use of guns in crimes dropped dramatically. The cops and prosecutors said “No one wants to go to prison. So while these guys didn’t stop committing crimes, at least they didn’t carry guns as much as in the past.” Which is a very good thing. I see that measure as a win all around.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#79322 Jan 30, 2013
Great!
Sam thinks that committing murder is a perfectly sane act.

Murder, its not just for crazies anymore!

What an effin dolt.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

#79323 Jan 30, 2013
I realize that many people like her and think she's really sexy, but I'm sick of Beyonce.

Thank goodness we watch the Puppy Bowl.

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