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PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#78185
Jan 4, 2013
 
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd change my name.
And convert, too. He is a Mormon who said he didn't drink.

Ah, politics and religion.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#78186
Jan 4, 2013
 

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PEllen wrote:
I agree with teh hospital for firing teh nurses who would not be immunized. The hospital's mission is patient health. I put this in a category near, but not teh same as, pharmacists who don't want to dispense birth control.
That is NOTHING like the pharmacist category.

If there are possible dangers with getting the flu shot, why should the rights of the patients trump the rights of the individual?

My own health is my responsibility and my freedom. There are already a multitude of lawsuits of Obamacare for requiring companies to provide contraceptives for their employees. Suppose Obamacare requires everyone to get a flu shot? And not doing so would be deemed illegal and you could be arrested, fined and jailed? You'd be okay with that?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#78187
Jan 4, 2013
 
squishymama wrote:
I bet the voters of Idaho had to contain their giggles as they voted for this guy. What a name!
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/04/16...
It would have been funnier if he was arrested for defecating in public.
PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#78188
Jan 4, 2013
 

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edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
That is NOTHING like the pharmacist category.
If there are possible dangers with getting the flu shot, why should the rights of the patients trump the rights of the individual?
?
In a competitng right situation, someone wins and someone loses.
A hospital is a place where the general public comes for health care and , nosocomial infections to the contrary notwithstanding, not to be exposed to more pathogens or risks. The nurses can leave; in general, the patients cannot. The nurses are presumed healthy; the patients are, by definition, not. Therefore in a competition between the right of an unconfined individual to become infected and spread disease as weighed against the rights of a fragile and confined population, the free roaming person,i.e. the nurse should take second place to the rights of the patients .

Perhaps the nurses can get a temporary job until flu season is over, like at Denny's as a cook, viz, Tyhphoid Mary.

“The two baby belly, please!”

Since: Sep 09

Evanston IL

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#78189
Jan 4, 2013
 
Thinking of you, PE, as I finish off my brownie from Corner Robery, er, Bakery.

But I couldn't help it! When I got off the train this morning, the wind was blowing from the direction of Blommer's Chocolate and well, I just had to have a brownie after that.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#78190
Jan 4, 2013
 

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PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>In a competitng right situation, someone wins and someone loses.
A hospital is a place where the general public comes for health care and , nosocomial infections to the contrary notwithstanding, not to be exposed to more pathogens or risks. The nurses can leave; in general, the patients cannot. The nurses are presumed healthy; the patients are, by definition, not. Therefore in a competition between the right of an unconfined individual to become infected and spread disease as weighed against the rights of a fragile and confined population, the free roaming person,i.e. the nurse should take second place to the rights of the patients .
Perhaps the nurses can get a temporary job until flu season is over, like at Denny's as a cook, viz, Tyhphoid Mary.
But I can get the flu from a stranger in public. So by your same logic shouldn't EVERYONE be forced to get flu shots?

I can get behind company policy on dress codes, I can get behind rules on etiquette and behavior and language, but I CANNOT get behind companies forcing flu immunizations. My medical records are only between me and my doctor, it's none of my employer's business whether or not I've gotten a flu shot. That is illegal.

Since: Mar 09

United States

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#78191
Jan 4, 2013
 
Just saw on Facebook that raw onions can prevent the flu. Not eating them, just having them in the room with you. Supposedly they attract germs or whatever. For the same reason, you should not eat "leftover" onions unless they're cooked.
PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#78192
Jan 4, 2013
 

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edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
But I can get the flu from a stranger in public. So by your same logic shouldn't EVERYONE be forced to get flu shots?
I can get behind company policy on dress codes, I can get behind rules on etiquette and behavior and language, but I CANNOT get behind companies forcing flu immunizations. My medical records are only between me and my doctor, it's none of my employer's business whether or not I've gotten a flu shot. That is illegal.
You can get away from sick strangers, wash your hands alot, wear a mask, stay away from confined spaces on teh street. You cannot do that if you are a patient confined to a hospital. You are captive and the choice has been made to protect the weaker, captive population at the expense of the person who has a choice.

It is not illegal in this context, although the nurses are claming their rights are infringed. There is no issue of disclosure of medical records. The employer makes the flu shot a condition of employment and it is a question whether that condition is reasonable under the circumstances.

Are you suggesting you would lie and claim the you had the shot but you aren't going to give proof? You get the shot or inhale teh nose spray. The nurse who did it gives you a receipt and you give the receipt to HR. No one sees your medical records.

Do you have to wear steel toed shoes at work or hearing protection? Are there consequenece if you don't?
PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#78193
Jan 4, 2013
 
j_m_w wrote:
Just saw on Facebook that raw onions can prevent the flu. Not eating them, just having them in the room with you. Supposedly they attract germs or whatever. For the same reason, you should not eat "leftover" onions unless they're cooked.
Were we just talking about rubbing a raw onion on your windshield to clear it of ice or something?
PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#78194
Jan 4, 2013
 
squishymama wrote:
Thinking of you, PE, as I finish off my brownie from Corner Robery, er, Bakery.
But I couldn't help it! When I got off the train this morning, the wind was blowing from the direction of Blommer's Chocolate and well, I just had to have a brownie after that.
Noooo.
Vegetable soup.Pick out the carrots.
Plain tuna from the salad bar with some celery, onions, jardinaire and squeezed lemon.
Some grapes from home left over from Christmas dinner.

A lot of herb tea.

I am on day 4 of 14. I WILL do this.

Since: Jan 10

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#78195
Jan 4, 2013
 

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I suspect that health care workers also may have to get hepatitis shots as well.

Since: Jan 10

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#78196
Jan 4, 2013
 
Go PE go! Matilda did it! You can, too!!!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#78197
Jan 4, 2013
 

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PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
You can get away from sick strangers, wash your hands alot, wear a mask, stay away from confined spaces on teh street.
So to avoid being forced to get the flu shot and not get the flu, I should stay inside and not get a job as a nurse. Got it.
PEllen wrote:
Are you suggesting you would lie and claim the you had the shot but you aren't going to give proof?
In order to keep my job, yes.
PEllen wrote:
Do you have to wear steel toed shoes at work or hearing protection? Are there consequenece if you don't?
Yeah, I'll get fired. But there's a difference between those analogies. Personal protective equipment is for MY safety. Is requiring nurses to get the flu shot for THEIR safety, or the safety of others? I'm sure that working in a hospital, they come across all kinds of sicknesses. Should they be required to wear full body hazmat suits? A sick patient could infect his sick roommate in the next bed. Should every patient admitted be required to take the flu shot?

Nobody should be FORCED to get a flu shot. Nobody. Not some nurse in a hospital or the cashier ringing up my groceries that has fondled the diseased-ridden money of many strangers.

The question begs, where will it end? You start with nurses, you could end up with requiring all teachers, receptionists, salesmen, anybody who serves the public.

Best solution is not to start anywhere.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#78198
Jan 4, 2013
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
I suspect that health care workers also may have to get hepatitis shots as well.
See, I'm for forced immunizations on some things, like small pox and bubonic plague. Can probably get on board with hepatitis and other things for health care workers, but I can't see forcing the flu shot. I'm not a hundred percent sure why but I think it has mostly to do with the fact there are dangers involved, and the strain of flu varies from year to year anyway, and many people who get the flu shot still get the flu; maybe it's a different strain, maybe the shot just didn't work, whatever.

To be forced into something that's a hit or miss anyway, just doesn't sound reasonable.
PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#78199
Jan 4, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
So to avoid being forced to get the flu shot and not get the flu, I should stay inside and not get a job as a nurse. Got it.
<quoted text>
In order to keep my job, yes.
<quoted text>
Yeah, I'll get fired. But there's a difference between those analogies. Personal protective equipment is for MY safety. Is requiring nurses to get the flu shot for THEIR safety, or the safety of others? I'm sure that working in a hospital, they come across all kinds of sicknesses. Should they be required to wear full body hazmat suits? A sick patient could infect his sick roommate in the next bed. Should every patient admitted be required to take the flu shot?
Nobody should be FORCED to get a flu shot. Nobody. Not some nurse in a hospital or the cashier ringing up my groceries that has fondled the diseased-ridden money of many strangers.
The question begs, where will it end? You start with nurses, you could end up with requiring all teachers, receptionists, salesmen, anybody who serves the public.
Best solution is not to start anywhere.
You are an epidemiologist's version of a Luddite.

Want some of this?

Tetanus often begins with mild spasms in the jaw muscles (lockjaw). The spasms can also affect the chest, neck, back, and abdominal muscles. Back muscle spasms often cause arching, called opisthotonos. Sometimes the spasms affect muscles that help with breathing, which can lead to breathing problems.

Prolonged muscular action causes sudden, powerful, and painful contractions of muscle groups. This is called tetany. These episodes can cause fractures and muscle tears. Other symptoms include drooling, excessive sweating, fever, hand or foot spasms, irritability, swallowing difficulty, uncontrolled urination or defecation.

Tetanus affects skeletal muscle, a type of striated muscle used in voluntary movement. The other type of striated muscle, cardiac or heart muscle, cannot be tetanized because of its intrinsic electrical properties. Mortality rates reported vary from 48% to 73%.

-From the great book of Wikipedia

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#78200
Jan 4, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are an epidemiologist's version of a Luddite.
Want some of this?
Tetanus often begins with mild spasms in the jaw muscles (lockjaw). The spasms can also affect the chest, neck, back, and abdominal muscles. Back muscle spasms often cause arching, called opisthotonos. Sometimes the spasms affect muscles that help with breathing, which can lead to breathing problems.
Prolonged muscular action causes sudden, powerful, and painful contractions of muscle groups. This is called tetany. These episodes can cause fractures and muscle tears. Other symptoms include drooling, excessive sweating, fever, hand or foot spasms, irritability, swallowing difficulty, uncontrolled urination or defecation.
Tetanus affects skeletal muscle, a type of striated muscle used in voluntary movement. The other type of striated muscle, cardiac or heart muscle, cannot be tetanized because of its intrinsic electrical properties. Mortality rates reported vary from 48% to 73%.
-From the great book of Wikipedia
What is your point? Tetanus shots are not required by law or any company policy that I am aware of. But again, are tetanus shots to protect YOU, or someone else?

And don't try to argue a point using "wickedstupedia."
PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#78201
Jan 4, 2013
 

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edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your point? Tetanus shots are not required by law or any company policy that I am aware of. But again, are tetanus shots to protect YOU, or someone else?
And don't try to argue a point using "wickedstupedia."
DPT shots are required by school districts for admittance to schools.
You are right. Tetanus is not communicative, but diptheria is, only the description of its course is somewhat less dramatic, if equally fatal.

Seriously. Flu shots affect and benefit the populace, the herd, in technical terms, not just the individual. One infected person is a locus by which many are made ill. The theory is that if you decrease the number of loci you decrease overall morbity.

Sometimes people do things and are made to do things to serve a greater good.

Want to argue about the draft?

Since: Feb 08

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#78202
Jan 4, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Noooo.
Vegetable soup.Pick out the carrots.
Plain tuna from the salad bar with some celery, onions, jardinaire and squeezed lemon.
Some grapes from home left over from Christmas dinner.
A lot of herb tea.
I am on day 4 of 14. I WILL do this.
Can't have carrots or don't like them?

“It made sense at the time....”

Since: May 09

Des Plaines, IL

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#78203
Jan 4, 2013
 
on naming rules in other countries:
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/592...

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#78204
Jan 4, 2013
 

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PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>DPT shots are required by school districts for admittance to schools.
You are right. Tetanus is not communicative, but diptheria is, only the description of its course is somewhat less dramatic, if equally fatal.
Seriously. Flu shots affect and benefit the populace, the herd, in technical terms, not just the individual. One infected person is a locus by which many are made ill. The theory is that if you decrease the number of loci you decrease overall morbity.
Sometimes people do things and are made to do things to serve a greater good.
Want to argue about the draft?
I have already said I support the requirement of some immunizations but not for the flu. There is a possible health risk to the individual unlike other immunization shots. I think THAT is my biggest hang up. It might not work anyway and cause me to become seriously ill and maybe even die. NOBODY, should they be my employer or the government, FORCE me to get one. That is a choice and risk I'll make solely on my own, thank you.

And I fully support the draft. I was not yet alive during the Viet Nam era but believe citizens of a country have an obligation to protect and serve it.

Pansyass crybabies who like to btch and moan and protest about the very freedoms that allow them to that really pzz me off and should be the first drafted for front line infantry.

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