Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#75576 Nov 6, 2012
Aisle Sitter wrote:
<quoted text>
as a counter point to this, and y'all know how often i get into these discussions, i have a friend who has struggled all her life. she struggled through school, found a certificate program and graduated from that after high school. she did marry and have 2 kids, and has always lived modestly. then her husband etiher developed a mental illness or it had been latent and sometihgn triggered it. his illness manifests itself as impulsivity. one day, instead of going to work, he went for a drive. for two days. she had troopers in 3 states watching for his return.
he continued his impulsivity by buying property in other states, changing jobs across the country, quitting on a whim, not following through with treatment and meds, and the like.
she's turned into a single mother, working 2 jobs, to support her kids on her own, and deal with her husband on top of it. at times, he's quit a relatively stable job for a frivolous reason, and after awhile and a lot of her prodding, he's foudn somethng new, but it's a "joe job" at mcdonald's or a gas station. they've had to declare personal bankruptcy because of him. lately, he's been living and working out of state, and i don't trust that he's sending money as he has promised.
her struggles have made me re-examine my attitudes about social services. she has had to go without medical stuff because they don't ahve insurance and (for example) the dentist wont' take installments, they don't have cable or internet, and she's got basic cell service. tehy rent in the country where it's cheaper, so she's spending more on gas and time getting to her jobs. she doesn't need constant assistance, but a boost every now and again will help keep her above water.
I am highly suspect of a situation where one is completely blind sided by this. Not having known this person, I will assume what you say to be true. However, even in that case, for every 1 person like this, there are 9 people who have made very poor choices in life.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#75577 Nov 6, 2012
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
As I recall George Romney and his wife accepted welfare fopr a while after they moved back from Mexico.
That was before he was brainwashed of course.
I don't have a problem with folks going on welfare for short periods of time if they are actively working on improving themselves or their situation in life. I do have a problem when folks throw their hands up, accept living on entitlements as a way of life, and are seemingly determined to maintain the status quo or worse.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#75578 Nov 6, 2012
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
bark up another tree. I'm 100% behind universal health care, no ifs, ands or buts.
The problem with universal healthcare is that quality will be degraded. Sorry, my life, my wife's life, and my children's lives are worth just as much as the life of a poor person's:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1244515705463...

Maybe you are more self loathing than I, but I'm not going to accept a lower standard of care, so that someone else who wants a handout can have a better standard of care.

I honestly would like to think you think you can have your cake and eat it to and are misinformed about the side effects of universal coverage ... either that or you just so damn bleeding heart that if you had cancer, you'd rather wait months and months for a screening so that someone else who is poor can get the same shoddy treatment as you.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#75579 Nov 6, 2012
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
bark up another tree. I'm 100% behind universal health care, no ifs, ands or buts.
Including so that folks can quit their jobs and pursue their musical talents, right?
PEllen

Chicago, IL

#75580 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Forgive me if I think outside of a basic safety net, it's up to you to get out and get your own.
Not that I would ever split hairs with a lawyer, but the crux of the argument is the definition of "basic safety net".
Sam I Am

Knoxville, TN

#75581 Nov 6, 2012
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think I'm narrow minded?
Everything you say.

“WE WON TOPIX! YAY!”

Since: Jun 09

United States

#75582 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, buddy, I've got a son with autism to provide for (and will probably have to make sure he is provided for after my wife and I are gone) and 2 other kids whose future and college I need to worry about. Life has thrown me a few punches too. Forgive me if I concern myself more with those and decide that my sole purpose in life isn't to provide for people and make their life cozy, act as their life insurance policy when that "mayhem" guy strikes, and do everything I can possibly do to help them, even to the detriment of my own family.
Forgive me if I think outside of a basic safety net, it's up to you to get out and get your own.
I'm just pointing out that YOU are dependent upon government to make your life better by NOT helping others. Lame, bruh.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#75583 Nov 6, 2012
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Not that I would ever split hairs with a lawyer, but the crux of the argument is the definition of "basic safety net".
You know I really wish it were all about what is the definition of a "basic safety net." I honestly think if left to their own devices democrats would know no practical limit when it comes to this.

When you've got the speaker of the house saying folks should quit their job and pursue music knowing that others will work to provide them with insurance ... I almost can't even believe we are even the same species of animal.

Then you've got Obama trying to water down the welfare work requirements:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/gao-confirms-ob...

Didn't we all agree, both moderates from the left (including Bill Clinton) and right, in the 90s, on those welfare work requirements?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#75584 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with universal healthcare is that quality will be degraded. Sorry, my life, my wife's life, and my children's lives are worth just as much as the life of a poor person's:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1244515705463...
Maybe you are more self loathing than I, but I'm not going to accept a lower standard of care, so that someone else who wants a handout can have a better standard of care.
I honestly would like to think you think you can have your cake and eat it to and are misinformed about the side effects of universal coverage ... either that or you just so damn bleeding heart that if you had cancer, you'd rather wait months and months for a screening so that someone else who is poor can get the same shoddy treatment as you.
I don't believe it. People in the U.K. and Canada LIKE their health care. Doctors like practicing there.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#75585 Nov 6, 2012
Ferrerman wrote:
<quoted text>I'm just pointing out that YOU are dependent upon government to make your life better by NOT helping others.
Only on planet bizarro.

Actually, if I want to make my family's life better, I set goals for myself or my wife sets goals for herself. Like my wife working full time for a little more than $10 as a CNA changing people diapers at times and being at their service, with the plan being that she will continue to do so and take classes next semester and over the summer so that she can go to nursing school.

You see ^^^^^^^ that is a f'ing foreign concept to some people. That one would make sacrifices, work hard, put in their dues, go above and beyond, so that their family can eventually get ahead is a foreign concept to some. Nope, some folks think instead, the governmetn should give them contracts, just cause they are a certain color or don't have junk? Some folks think they should just stay at a job make $10 an hour, and live off food stamps, subsidized housing, and obamacare.

What's even more funny is when she puts in her dues, busts her ass off working for 3 or 4 years while going to school, and finally gets her degree you and Angela will say, since we are so fortunate and making more money, that we owe NOW people more shyte ... people who made half as wise of decisions and worked half as hard. It's almost as if you think the people who are successful just snapped their fingers and found themselves in that situaiton by happenstance ... as if life is completely random, no one is in charge of their destiny, and it doesn't take hard work to make it somewhere. Unless your dad is Bill Gates or George Bush, Sr, that doesn't happen on planet earth very often.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#75586 Nov 6, 2012
Sam I Am wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything you say.
Your credibility might improve if you could provide any actual examples.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#75587 Nov 6, 2012
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe it. People in the U.K. and Canada LIKE their health care. Doctors like practicing there.
Well, obviously you think you know more than a Canadian doctor and an article written in a well respected magazine. Here's another article that says the same exact thing:

http://www.familydoctormag.com/doctors-office...

How many do I have to post before you will say, okay, Sublime maybe you have a point to some degree and it seems a little bit more complicated than I first thought? I used to be more in favor of a universal program too, until I read about the effects. I'm not having my wife wait months and months to see a specialist so that someone can have free healthcare.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#75588 Nov 6, 2012
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe it. People in the U.K. and Canada LIKE their health care. Doctors like practicing there.
Typical headinyourass comment. People in Canada HATE their healthcare system because it takes months to see a doctor. Many Canadians come HERE for medical treatment. And ask any doctor, America is the best place in the WORLD for practicing, why do you think so many drs here are foreigners?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#75589 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, obviously you think you know more than a Canadian doctor and an article written in a well respected magazine. Here's another article that says the same exact thing:
http://www.familydoctormag.com/doctors-office...
How many do I have to post before you will say, okay, Sublime maybe you have a point to some degree and it seems a little bit more complicated than I first thought? I used to be more in favor of a universal program too, until I read about the effects. I'm not having my wife wait months and months to see a specialist so that someone can have free healthcare.
One doctor? I've read lots on this and seen documentaries. I've researched this. I am all over the Canada and European model.

And people don't wait months for actual urgent medical issues. They may wait six months, TOPS, for elective surgeries that can wait. The evidence is there -- Canadians and others loev their health care. It's not perfect, but the u.s. model SUCKS.

“WE WON TOPIX! YAY!”

Since: Jun 09

United States

#75590 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Only on planet bizarro.
Actually, if I want to make my family's life better, I set goals for myself or my wife sets goals for herself. Like my wife working full time for a little more than $10 as a CNA changing people diapers at times and being at their service, with the plan being that she will continue to do so and take classes next semester and over the summer so that she can go to nursing school.
You see ^^^^^^^ that is a f'ing foreign concept to some people. That one would make sacrifices, work hard, put in their dues, go above and beyond, so that their family can eventually get ahead is a foreign concept to some. Nope, some folks think instead, the governmetn should give them contracts, just cause they are a certain color or don't have junk? Some folks think they should just stay at a job make $10 an hour, and live off food stamps, subsidized housing, and obamacare.
What's even more funny is when she puts in her dues, busts her ass off working for 3 or 4 years while going to school, and finally gets her degree you and Angela will say, since we are so fortunate and making more money, that we owe NOW people more shyte ... people who made half as wise of decisions and worked half as hard. It's almost as if you think the people who are successful just snapped their fingers and found themselves in that situaiton by happenstance ... as if life is completely random, no one is in charge of their destiny, and it doesn't take hard work to make it somewhere. Unless your dad is Bill Gates or George Bush, Sr, that doesn't happen on planet earth very often.
Why, it's almost as if you think voting for a one percenter will make YOU a one percenter. It won't. If you wake up tomorrow, unless you're on Planet Kolob, it won't get better for you even if it gets worse for others. Maybe you'll find out. Or, maybe it will get better for others with four more years. Can you stand it if it gets better for everyone or will that muck up your scoresheet?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#75592 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Including so that folks can quit their jobs and pursue their musical talents, right?
how about full-time musicians who have to move in order to get affordable health care? As in, move to other countries?

Everyone deserves health care. We're the odd man out in not providing it.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#75593 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am highly suspect of a situation where one is completely blind sided by this. Not having known this person, I will assume what you say to be true. However, even in that case, for every 1 person like this, there are 9 people who have made very poor choices in life.
I heartily congratulate you on your choice of parents to be born to and raised by. Parents who loved you and taught you well. Good job. Others have obviously not made choices of parentage as wisely as you.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#75594 Nov 6, 2012
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe it. People in the U.K. and Canada LIKE their health care. Doctors like practicing there.
This. Everyone I've met who lives in a country with UHC is quite pleased with the care. Anyone with the money to spare can pay for more specialized care and don't have to be patient like the working stiffs and unemployed who must deal with waiting for ELECTIVE surgery. ELECTIVE surgery.
NOBODY must wait or just 'deal' with broken bones, or serious injury. If you're injured, go to hospital and they'll reduce your fracture or stitch you up.
Just found out (like a minute ago) that a dear friend found a lump, and the biopsy says it's cancer. Thank FSM she's CANADIAN and won't have to worry about going bankrupt just to pay for lifesaving treatment.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#75595 Nov 6, 2012
Oh, and she didn't have to wait months to see a doctor. I don't know where that fairy tale comes from. She found the lump and has already had the biopsy, and they're planning treatment now, all that in two weeks.
My friends who live in socialist countries are happy with their systems, too.
PEllen

Chicago, IL

#75596 Nov 6, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You know I really wish it were all about what is the definition of a "basic safety net." I honestly think if left to their own devices democrats would know no practical limit when it comes to this.
When you've got the speaker of the house saying folks should quit their job and pursue music knowing that others will work to provide them with insurance ... I almost can't even believe we are even the same species of animal.
Then you've got Obama trying to water down the welfare work requirements:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/gao-confirms-ob...
Didn't we all agree, both moderates from the left (including Bill Clinton) and right, in the 90s, on those welfare work requirements?
Unless we have recently moved to an autocratic form of government ( one person in charge of policy and law), the statements of an indvidual--other than the President-- have to be taken in context.

Even the President , who can set policy, must craft legislation and convince the rest of the bicameral legislature to pass it.

Everyone, on all points of the spectrum, have made statements which taken out of context are absurd. No one from the ilk of Edog to the bosum of Angela is immune from that. I am not buying that Nancy Pelosi seriously wants to have complete public assistance for the entire Juilliard class. I do agree that a crummy second trombone shouldn't die young from TB because he can't afford medical care.

I would like to see univeral health care. I don't see that as coddling the lazy unwashed masses. To me that is part of the basic safety net.

I also know that the business model for an insurance plan requires that people with low possibility of making a claim be in the pool with the people with a high possibility of making the claim. If you are healthy it is hard to see why you individually should pay for something you don't expect to use.If you can come up with a business model to address this, have at it. You can be the next Hank Greenberg. I think it is fair for government to coerce that participation for the greater good of American society. It falls into the same category as a forced income tax, forced Social Security deductions, forced car insurance.All those serve a social need.

Where the hell is Cycle when we need him?

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