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PEllen

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#75571
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe they should examine the personal decisions they made in life, make better choices in the future, and work extra hard to get them out of the hole that they dug for themselves (I know, but it is so much easier if other folks do that extra work to get you out of the hole that YOU dug, and heck, you are entitled to this, so why not <sarcasm>).
I point out, no one forces a person to have a family that they can't afford. I also point out that no one forces a person to get married when they can't even care for themselves. I personally think it is irresponsible to do so and don't have a great deal of sympathy for such folks.
I know personal responsibility is a foreign concept to some, but many of us feel we have our own families to care for and we shouldn't be burdened with doing more and more and more and more for folks who want an ever increasing amount of handouts, or "help" as you like to call it.
Democrat mindset: Whaaa, whaaa, whaaa, I'm struggling - someone else do the work to make me not struggle. I'm entitled to this.
As I recall George Romney and his wife accepted welfare fopr a while after they moved back from Mexico.

That was before he was brainwashed of course.

Toj

“Equality”

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#75572
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Aisle Sitter wrote:
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she doesn't need constant assistance, but a boost every now and again will help keep her above water.
People forget -- there but for the grace of the flying spaghetti monster go I.

Some people will say "No, not me. Never." I say I hope not b/c then you could not handle it because you think you can control everything. And you can't.

You just never know. We don't know everyone's story who is on assistance. There are a few of everything in the world and plenty of crooks on and off assistance.

As Red said to another poster, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Try to fix what you can to limit the cheaters. It's so easy to say what you would do when you're not the one facing the day-to-day things in their life.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75573
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Ferrerman wrote:
<quoted text>Tough love, eh buddy?
And yet you believe a government should enforce this and make your life that much better.
Sheesh.
Hey, buddy, I've got a son with autism to provide for (and will probably have to make sure he is provided for after my wife and I are gone) and 2 other kids whose future and college I need to worry about. Life has thrown me a few punches too. Forgive me if I concern myself more with those and decide that my sole purpose in life isn't to provide for people and make their life cozy, act as their life insurance policy when that "mayhem" guy strikes, and do everything I can possibly do to help them, even to the detriment of my own family.

Forgive me if I think outside of a basic safety net, it's up to you to get out and get your own.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75574
Nov 6, 2012
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
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Yup, maybe they shoulda cuolda woulda. But they didn't. now there are kids. And since my fabulous idea of children's homes won't be popular enough to take hold, we're stuck with helping those kids whether we want to or not.
I see you want to make it all about kids, but it's not really all about kids when you are giving free and subsidized healthcare to GROWN ADULTS making up to 80k a year.

It's also not all about kids when the speaker of the house says that GROWN ADULT musicians or whatever can leave their job, focus on their talent, because they will have healthcare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

This is the same thought process that leads folks to not be embarrassed to be on entitlements. It's like this attitude of "hey, man, other people are providing for me and my family ... that's totally normal ... no need to make any changes or self improvements or I'm just going to quit my job and have other people provide me with health insurance ... nothing wrong here" has just become so pervasive = entitlement to the point of disgust.

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#75575
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
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I see you want to make it all about kids, but it's not really all about kids when you are giving free and subsidized healthcare to GROWN ADULTS making up to 80k a year.
It's also not all about kids when the speaker of the house says that GROWN ADULT musicians or whatever can leave their job, focus on their talent, because they will have healthcare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
This is the same thought process that leads folks to not be embarrassed to be on entitlements. It's like this attitude of "hey, man, other people are providing for me and my family ... that's totally normal ... no need to make any changes or self improvements or I'm just going to quit my job and have other people provide me with health insurance ... nothing wrong here" has just become so pervasive = entitlement to the point of disgust.
bark up another tree. I'm 100% behind universal health care, no ifs, ands or buts.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75576
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Aisle Sitter wrote:
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as a counter point to this, and y'all know how often i get into these discussions, i have a friend who has struggled all her life. she struggled through school, found a certificate program and graduated from that after high school. she did marry and have 2 kids, and has always lived modestly. then her husband etiher developed a mental illness or it had been latent and sometihgn triggered it. his illness manifests itself as impulsivity. one day, instead of going to work, he went for a drive. for two days. she had troopers in 3 states watching for his return.
he continued his impulsivity by buying property in other states, changing jobs across the country, quitting on a whim, not following through with treatment and meds, and the like.
she's turned into a single mother, working 2 jobs, to support her kids on her own, and deal with her husband on top of it. at times, he's quit a relatively stable job for a frivolous reason, and after awhile and a lot of her prodding, he's foudn somethng new, but it's a "joe job" at mcdonald's or a gas station. they've had to declare personal bankruptcy because of him. lately, he's been living and working out of state, and i don't trust that he's sending money as he has promised.
her struggles have made me re-examine my attitudes about social services. she has had to go without medical stuff because they don't ahve insurance and (for example) the dentist wont' take installments, they don't have cable or internet, and she's got basic cell service. tehy rent in the country where it's cheaper, so she's spending more on gas and time getting to her jobs. she doesn't need constant assistance, but a boost every now and again will help keep her above water.
I am highly suspect of a situation where one is completely blind sided by this. Not having known this person, I will assume what you say to be true. However, even in that case, for every 1 person like this, there are 9 people who have made very poor choices in life.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75577
Nov 6, 2012
 

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PEllen wrote:
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As I recall George Romney and his wife accepted welfare fopr a while after they moved back from Mexico.
That was before he was brainwashed of course.
I don't have a problem with folks going on welfare for short periods of time if they are actively working on improving themselves or their situation in life. I do have a problem when folks throw their hands up, accept living on entitlements as a way of life, and are seemingly determined to maintain the status quo or worse.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75578
Nov 6, 2012
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
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bark up another tree. I'm 100% behind universal health care, no ifs, ands or buts.
The problem with universal healthcare is that quality will be degraded. Sorry, my life, my wife's life, and my children's lives are worth just as much as the life of a poor person's:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1244515705463...

Maybe you are more self loathing than I, but I'm not going to accept a lower standard of care, so that someone else who wants a handout can have a better standard of care.

I honestly would like to think you think you can have your cake and eat it to and are misinformed about the side effects of universal coverage ... either that or you just so damn bleeding heart that if you had cancer, you'd rather wait months and months for a screening so that someone else who is poor can get the same shoddy treatment as you.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75579
Nov 6, 2012
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
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bark up another tree. I'm 100% behind universal health care, no ifs, ands or buts.
Including so that folks can quit their jobs and pursue their musical talents, right?
PEllen

Chicago, IL

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#75580
Nov 6, 2012
 
Sublime1 wrote:
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Forgive me if I think outside of a basic safety net, it's up to you to get out and get your own.
Not that I would ever split hairs with a lawyer, but the crux of the argument is the definition of "basic safety net".
Sam I Am

Huntingdon, TN

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Nov 6, 2012
 

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edogxxx wrote:
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What makes you think I'm narrow minded?
Everything you say.

“WE WON TOPIX! YAY!”

Since: Jun 09

Mount Prospect, IL

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#75582
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
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Hey, buddy, I've got a son with autism to provide for (and will probably have to make sure he is provided for after my wife and I are gone) and 2 other kids whose future and college I need to worry about. Life has thrown me a few punches too. Forgive me if I concern myself more with those and decide that my sole purpose in life isn't to provide for people and make their life cozy, act as their life insurance policy when that "mayhem" guy strikes, and do everything I can possibly do to help them, even to the detriment of my own family.
Forgive me if I think outside of a basic safety net, it's up to you to get out and get your own.
I'm just pointing out that YOU are dependent upon government to make your life better by NOT helping others. Lame, bruh.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75583
Nov 6, 2012
 

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PEllen wrote:
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Not that I would ever split hairs with a lawyer, but the crux of the argument is the definition of "basic safety net".
You know I really wish it were all about what is the definition of a "basic safety net." I honestly think if left to their own devices democrats would know no practical limit when it comes to this.

When you've got the speaker of the house saying folks should quit their job and pursue music knowing that others will work to provide them with insurance ... I almost can't even believe we are even the same species of animal.

Then you've got Obama trying to water down the welfare work requirements:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/gao-confirms-ob...

Didn't we all agree, both moderates from the left (including Bill Clinton) and right, in the 90s, on those welfare work requirements?

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#75584
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
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The problem with universal healthcare is that quality will be degraded. Sorry, my life, my wife's life, and my children's lives are worth just as much as the life of a poor person's:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1244515705463...
Maybe you are more self loathing than I, but I'm not going to accept a lower standard of care, so that someone else who wants a handout can have a better standard of care.
I honestly would like to think you think you can have your cake and eat it to and are misinformed about the side effects of universal coverage ... either that or you just so damn bleeding heart that if you had cancer, you'd rather wait months and months for a screening so that someone else who is poor can get the same shoddy treatment as you.
I don't believe it. People in the U.K. and Canada LIKE their health care. Doctors like practicing there.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75585
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Ferrerman wrote:
<quoted text>I'm just pointing out that YOU are dependent upon government to make your life better by NOT helping others.
Only on planet bizarro.

Actually, if I want to make my family's life better, I set goals for myself or my wife sets goals for herself. Like my wife working full time for a little more than $10 as a CNA changing people diapers at times and being at their service, with the plan being that she will continue to do so and take classes next semester and over the summer so that she can go to nursing school.

You see ^^^^^^^ that is a f'ing foreign concept to some people. That one would make sacrifices, work hard, put in their dues, go above and beyond, so that their family can eventually get ahead is a foreign concept to some. Nope, some folks think instead, the governmetn should give them contracts, just cause they are a certain color or don't have junk? Some folks think they should just stay at a job make $10 an hour, and live off food stamps, subsidized housing, and obamacare.

What's even more funny is when she puts in her dues, busts her ass off working for 3 or 4 years while going to school, and finally gets her degree you and Angela will say, since we are so fortunate and making more money, that we owe NOW people more shyte ... people who made half as wise of decisions and worked half as hard. It's almost as if you think the people who are successful just snapped their fingers and found themselves in that situaiton by happenstance ... as if life is completely random, no one is in charge of their destiny, and it doesn't take hard work to make it somewhere. Unless your dad is Bill Gates or George Bush, Sr, that doesn't happen on planet earth very often.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#75586
Nov 6, 2012
 
Sam I Am wrote:
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Everything you say.
Your credibility might improve if you could provide any actual examples.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#75587
Nov 6, 2012
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
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I don't believe it. People in the U.K. and Canada LIKE their health care. Doctors like practicing there.
Well, obviously you think you know more than a Canadian doctor and an article written in a well respected magazine. Here's another article that says the same exact thing:

http://www.familydoctormag.com/doctors-office...

How many do I have to post before you will say, okay, Sublime maybe you have a point to some degree and it seems a little bit more complicated than I first thought? I used to be more in favor of a universal program too, until I read about the effects. I'm not having my wife wait months and months to see a specialist so that someone can have free healthcare.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#75588
Nov 6, 2012
 

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RedheadwGlasses wrote:
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I don't believe it. People in the U.K. and Canada LIKE their health care. Doctors like practicing there.
Typical headinyourass comment. People in Canada HATE their healthcare system because it takes months to see a doctor. Many Canadians come HERE for medical treatment. And ask any doctor, America is the best place in the WORLD for practicing, why do you think so many drs here are foreigners?

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#75589
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
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Well, obviously you think you know more than a Canadian doctor and an article written in a well respected magazine. Here's another article that says the same exact thing:
http://www.familydoctormag.com/doctors-office...
How many do I have to post before you will say, okay, Sublime maybe you have a point to some degree and it seems a little bit more complicated than I first thought? I used to be more in favor of a universal program too, until I read about the effects. I'm not having my wife wait months and months to see a specialist so that someone can have free healthcare.
One doctor? I've read lots on this and seen documentaries. I've researched this. I am all over the Canada and European model.

And people don't wait months for actual urgent medical issues. They may wait six months, TOPS, for elective surgeries that can wait. The evidence is there -- Canadians and others loev their health care. It's not perfect, but the u.s. model SUCKS.

“WE WON TOPIX! YAY!”

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Mount Prospect, IL

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#75590
Nov 6, 2012
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
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Only on planet bizarro.
Actually, if I want to make my family's life better, I set goals for myself or my wife sets goals for herself. Like my wife working full time for a little more than $10 as a CNA changing people diapers at times and being at their service, with the plan being that she will continue to do so and take classes next semester and over the summer so that she can go to nursing school.
You see ^^^^^^^ that is a f'ing foreign concept to some people. That one would make sacrifices, work hard, put in their dues, go above and beyond, so that their family can eventually get ahead is a foreign concept to some. Nope, some folks think instead, the governmetn should give them contracts, just cause they are a certain color or don't have junk? Some folks think they should just stay at a job make $10 an hour, and live off food stamps, subsidized housing, and obamacare.
What's even more funny is when she puts in her dues, busts her ass off working for 3 or 4 years while going to school, and finally gets her degree you and Angela will say, since we are so fortunate and making more money, that we owe NOW people more shyte ... people who made half as wise of decisions and worked half as hard. It's almost as if you think the people who are successful just snapped their fingers and found themselves in that situaiton by happenstance ... as if life is completely random, no one is in charge of their destiny, and it doesn't take hard work to make it somewhere. Unless your dad is Bill Gates or George Bush, Sr, that doesn't happen on planet earth very often.
Why, it's almost as if you think voting for a one percenter will make YOU a one percenter. It won't. If you wake up tomorrow, unless you're on Planet Kolob, it won't get better for you even if it gets worse for others. Maybe you'll find out. Or, maybe it will get better for others with four more years. Can you stand it if it gets better for everyone or will that muck up your scoresheet?

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