Barack Obama, our next President

"The road ahead will be long. Our climb will be steep," Obama cautioned. Young and charismatic but with little experience on the national level, Obama smashed through racial barriers and easily defeated ... Full Story
TheIndependentMa jority

London, KY

#870846 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
You'll have to be more specific as this doesn't tell me much.
I will simply reiterate the passage from Prouty's "The Secret Team". Prouty states the CIA had operational control of all U.S. military units from 1954 to 1964 until the regular combat troops came in.
The CIA also ran an operation known as OPLAN34 (in "The Pentagon Papers" it is entitled 34A) which made use of unmarked aircraft and ships which attacked the North.
I don't think the Maddox and Turner Joy were part of OPLAN34. More likely they entered an area where OPLAN34 forces had just left, with North Vietnamese patrol boats in pursuit, mistaking the two destroyers as part of the raiding force.
But in the spirit of genorosity-since it's Friday night LIVE-

James Stockdale-Commander/Admiral US Navy, 1992 VP candidate (R Perot)

Quote-

"Not a ship, not the outline of a ship, not a wake, not a reflection, not the light of a single tracer bullet. Nothing."

Reporting HIS surveillance in regards to statements made on witnessing "torpedo runs" while aboard the U.S.S. Maddox.

Just for the pure sake of History.

“My Life Is A Shell Game”

Since: May 07

Lapeer, MI

#870848 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
The only thing amusing about this is that you think it's funny.
Lying is not funny. Remember that the next time you try it.
Cway

United States

#870849 Mar 8, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Undone by the Vietnam War
Despite Johnson's success in promoting his domestic reform policies, however, his presidency was equally defined by the failure of his policies toward Vietnam. Like the three presidents before him, Johnson was determined to prevent North Vietnamese Communists from taking over the U.S.-supported government of South Vietnam. He believed that America's national security depended on containing the spread of communism around the world.
As part of this effort, Johnson steadily escalated U.S. military involvement in the Vietnam War. The number of American troops in Vietnam soared from 16,000 when he first took office in 1963 to more than 500,000 in 1968, yet the conflict remained a bloody stalemate. As the war dragged on and American and Vietnamese casualties mounted, anti-war protests rocked college campuses and cities across the U.S.
Johnson's popularity within his own party plummeted as well. When it appeared that he might face a stiff challenge for the 1968 Democratic presidential nomination, Johnson announced his decision not to run for re-election. "I shall not seek, nor will I accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your president," he said in a nationally televised speech on March 31, 1968. Johnson explained that he wanted to focus on the peace process and pressing domestic issues without the distraction of a political campaign. The conflict in Vietnam, though, brought him nothing but pain and frustration during his last months in office, and U.S. military involvement in Vietnam continued for four years after his departure from Washington in January 1969.
History should always REMIND.
Bring the troops Home-NOT relocate them to "Libya" or anywhere else.
Again, Prouty is clear in his boook the CIA ran black operations against North Vietnam where unmarked U.S. aircraft and ships made unprovoked attacks. When fired upon, the CIA falsely claimed the communists fired first.

The CIA is hardly a liberal organization, and especially during the Cold War era.

Even if Johnson knew and approved, I don't see this as black mark against the mainstream Democrat Party. For the simple reason that it goes against the grain of Democrat philosophy to launch these kinds of wars. You never saw this kind of thing under Roosevelt or Truman.

I believe Johnson likely knew the Gulf of Tonkin was a set-up and likely knew the South Vietnamese government was not the democracy he and the CIA made it out to be.

Which makes him a rightist and a renegade within the Democrat ranks.

For all of which he was kicked out of the party in 1968.

I might add, LBJ was a close friend of J. Edgar Hoover, oil tycoons H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison, and the Root Brothers of the Construction Giant, H.L. Root, which later received a lucrative contract in Vietnam. There was nothing liberal about Johnson. And his relationship with the Northeast wing of the Democrat party, especially the Kennedys, was strained to put it mildly.
TheIndependentMa jority

London, KY

#870850 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, how's it going mental midget?
Still trying to be funny and not succeeding.
Some things never change.
USS Maddox (DD-731), 1944-1972
Actions in the Gulf of Tonkin, August 1964

Amid steadily rising tensions over North Vietnam's activities in Laos and South Vietnam, at the end of July 1964 USS Maddox entered the Gulf of Tonkin for a cruise along the North Vietnamese coast. As part of a general U.S. effort to collect intelligence in potential Far Eastern hot spots, this "Desoto Patrol" was particularly focused on obtaining information that would support South Vietnamese coastal raids against North Vietnam. One of these had just taken place as Maddox began her mission.

On the afternoon of 2 August 1964, while steaming well offshore in international waters, Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese motor torpedo boats. The destroyer maneuvered to avoid torpedoes and used her guns against her fast-moving opponents, hitting them all. In turn, she was struck in the after gun director by a single 14.5-millimeter machine gun bullet. Maddox called for air support from the carrier Ticonderoga, whose planes strafed the three boats, leaving one dead in the water and burning. Both sides then separated.

Maddox was soon ordered to resume her patrol, this time accompanied by the larger and newer destroyer Turner Joy. On 3 August, the South Vietnamese conducted another coastal raid. Intelligence indicated that the North Vietnamese were planning to again attack the U.S. ships operating off their shores, although this intrepretation was incorrect. During the night of 4 August, while they were underway in the middle of the Tonkin Gulf, Maddox and Turner Joy detected speedy craft closing in. For some two hours the ships fired on radar targets and maneuvered vigorously amid electronic and visual reports of torpedoes.
Maddox was soon ordered to resume her patrol, this time accompanied by the larger and newer destroyer Turner Joy. On 3 August, the South Vietnamese conducted another coastal raid. Intelligence indicated that the North Vietnamese were planning to again attack the U.S. ships operating off their shores, although this intrepretation was incorrect. During the night of 4 August, while they were underway in the middle of the Tonkin Gulf, Maddox and Turner Joy detected speedy craft closing in. For some two hours the ships fired on radar targets and maneuvered vigorously amid electronic and visual reports of torpedoes.

Though information obtained well after the fact indicates that there was actually no North Vietnamese attack that night, U.S. authorities were convinced at the time that one had taken place, and reacted by sending planes from the carriers Ticonderoga and Constellation to hit North Vietnamese torpedo boat bases and fuel facilites. A few days later, the U.S. Congess passed the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, which gave the Government authorization for what eventually became a full-scale war in Southeast Asia.

Kinda like- WTH we doing in Libya, besides abetting to Failed Statehood-ism?
TheIndependentMa jority

London, KY

#870853 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, Prouty is clear in his boook the CIA ran black operations against North Vietnam where unmarked U.S. aircraft and ships made unprovoked attacks. When fired upon, the CIA falsely claimed the communists fired first.
The CIA is hardly a liberal organization, and especially during the Cold War era.
Even if Johnson knew and approved, I don't see this as black mark against the mainstream Democrat Party. For the simple reason that it goes against the grain of Democrat philosophy to launch these kinds of wars. You never saw this kind of thing under Roosevelt or Truman.
I believe Johnson likely knew the Gulf of Tonkin was a set-up and likely knew the South Vietnamese government was not the democracy he and the CIA made it out to be.
Which makes him a rightist and a renegade within the Democrat ranks.
For all of which he was kicked out of the party in 1968.
I might add, LBJ was a close friend of J. Edgar Hoover, oil tycoons H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison, and the Root Brothers of the Construction Giant, H.L. Root, which later received a lucrative contract in Vietnam. There was nothing liberal about Johnson. And his relationship with the Northeast wing of the Democrat party, especially the Kennedys, was strained to put it mildly.
SO I stand with my initial statement on what I'd read personally about the incident myself-

A mistake of MISinformation, based on squawk and parrot MISinformation.

Kind of like My Lai.

And Benghazi.
John Galt

Temecula, CA

#870854 Mar 8, 2013
Blahblahblah wrote:
<quoted text>
What the heck you think built the skimped on levees to start with?
You know how many MILES of "sandbar type land" there is in the US?
(approx 12,383 miles (19,928 km) directly-that's not counting how far some of that extends inland.
Although anyone who would build/buy a place next to a levee system, or any similar type of scenario, should at least common sense enough to realize, the chances being taken in doing such, and have considerations enough that such then becomes a personal issue, between the doers of such and insurance companies, that should honor those who have sense, decency and honesty enough to faithfully contribute to the same.
If someone wants a house on a sand bar, that is entirely their right.

Just don't ask the taxpayers to cover their losses when the sand bar disappears.
TheIndependentMa jority

London, KY

#870857 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
And his relationship with the Northeast wing of the Democrat party, especially the Kennedys, was strained to put it mildly.
Can't blame him for that. Like docksider sailing loafers are navy been in combat boots or something :-).
TheIndependentMa jority

London, KY

#870858 Mar 8, 2013
John Galt wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone wants a house on a sand bar, that is entirely their right.
Just don't ask the taxpayers to cover their losses when the sand bar disappears.
That's what I said. Duhmmy.
Cway

United States

#870860 Mar 8, 2013
Neutral Party wrote:
I see that Cway approach is to belittle and discredit anything not flattering to government or liberal interests. When pointed out weaknesses in his argument, he plays the spin game remotely linking some conservative conflicting point.
These are how liberals operate. The belittling and name calling because no one can have a different opinion. I believe in the first amendment and those that try to shut me up mentally challenged and afraid of the truth.
Cway believes the government is the answer. I believe the people are the answer. Government suppresses, people achieve.
Your post proves you don't really understand my beliefs.

Face the facts. Your side is packed with extremists who want to see government so whittled down, it won't be able to fulfill its watchdog function.

As for my style of debate, I make no apologies. Try to BS or insult me and I'll make you pay for it.

Since: Nov 11

Westerville, OH

#870862 Mar 8, 2013
Liberal king Obama sends expensive special delegation for dictator Chavez,
Ignores Americans killed in Benghazi!
John Galt

Temecula, CA

#870864 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, Prouty is clear in his boook the CIA ran black operations against North Vietnam where unmarked U.S. aircraft and ships made unprovoked attacks. When fired upon, the CIA falsely claimed the communists fired first.
The CIA is hardly a liberal organization, and especially during the Cold War era.
Even if Johnson knew and approved, I don't see this as black mark against the mainstream Democrat Party. For the simple reason that it goes against the grain of Democrat philosophy to launch these kinds of wars. You never saw this kind of thing under Roosevelt or Truman.
I believe Johnson likely knew the Gulf of Tonkin was a set-up and likely knew the South Vietnamese government was not the democracy he and the CIA made it out to be.
Which makes him a rightist and a renegade within the Democrat ranks.
For all of which he was kicked out of the party in 1968.
I might add, LBJ was a close friend of J. Edgar Hoover, oil tycoons H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison, and the Root Brothers of the Construction Giant, H.L. Root, which later received a lucrative contract in Vietnam. There was nothing liberal about Johnson. And his relationship with the Northeast wing of the Democrat party, especially the Kennedys, was strained to put it mildly.
That might make sense except that the Socialist Democrat party replaced LBJ with his flunky toad, Humpty Dumpty.

Besides, LBJ passed more Socialist legislation than all other Presidents combined. If Obama had 10% of the political skills of LBJ, Boehner would be irrelevant, lily would have a single payer system, all firearms would be banned, tax rates would be 90%, and only homosexual marriages would be recognized.

Thank God for the US that Obama is completely lacking in interpersonal skills.

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Cway

United States

#870865 Mar 8, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
But in the spirit of genorosity-since it's Friday night LIVE-
James Stockdale-Commander/Admiral US Navy, 1992 VP candidate (R Perot)
Quote-
"Not a ship, not the outline of a ship, not a wake, not a reflection, not the light of a single tracer bullet. Nothing."
Reporting HIS surveillance in regards to statements made on witnessing "torpedo runs" while aboard the U.S.S. Maddox.
Just for the pure sake of History.
Okay. That version could be correct.

In either case, the public was told a lie. There were CIA operatives on at least one of those destroyers as I recall from Mitchener's book, "The Fifty Thousand Day War".

Whether the attack was provoked or dreamed up, the result is the same. And I suspect the CIA was at the bottom of it.

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John Galt

Temecula, CA

#870866 Mar 8, 2013
palsiwalsi wrote:
<quoted text>
Rand Paul is a US senator, you're a hate mongering troll.
Or perhaps Selecia is just a frustrated lesbian, rejected by lily.

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John Galt

Temecula, CA

#870867 Mar 8, 2013
palsiwalsi wrote:
<quoted text>
What are the billion bullets for? To shoot down Americans is my guess.
The redcoats and their hired Hessians had all the weapons, all the ammo, and all the money.

How did that work out?

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John Galt

Temecula, CA

#870868 Mar 8, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I said. Duhmmy.
Sorry. Sometimes Galt has problems translating Kentucky.

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John Galt

Temecula, CA

#870869 Mar 8, 2013
palsiwalsi wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are the billions the fed is printing going? To corporate America, Wall Street and the big banks.
Wise up.
Given that Obama was installed by Goldman Sachs, what else would you expect?

Lord Obama so loves the poor that he keeps making more of those suckers, spoon feeding them to vote for him.

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World Champion

Brooklyn, NY

#870870 Mar 8, 2013
If peeing on yourself was a sport, you people would be the champs.

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John Galt

Temecula, CA

#870871 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post proves you don't really understand my beliefs.
Face the facts. Your side is packed with extremists who want to see government so whittled down, it won't be able to fulfill its watchdog function.
As for my style of debate, I make no apologies. Try to BS or insult me and I'll make you pay for it.
Watchdogs tend to bite your ass, if that's what you want.

Obama's watchdogs are going after individual citizens, not his Wall Street masters.

But keep believing the crap he feeds you.

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“My Life Is A Shell Game”

Since: May 07

Lapeer, MI

#870872 Mar 8, 2013
Cway wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post proves you don't really understand my beliefs.
Face the facts. Your side is packed with extremists who want to see government so whittled down, it won't be able to fulfill its watchdog function.
As for my style of debate, I make no apologies. Try to BS or insult me and I'll make you pay for it.
Like a Chicago street thug, you keep using the expression "Your side" and then present a list of "Your side" failings.

You spoke about how American involvement began with Eisenhower - A REPUBLICAN!- and more dastardly Republicans like John Foster Dulles. And then you deny JFK - A DEMOCRAT!- escalated the war and, further, you then launch into how it was the CIA that initiated the Tonkin Incident and not the President leaving LBJ as some sort of clueless Right Wing element of the Democratic Party - the same azzhole who pushed for the Great Society!!

You hopscotch like a jackrabbit reading a map through a minefield and, reaching the opposite side, declare loudly "See?!! The Democrats are nice people who never did anything wrong. It's those nasty Republicans that screwed up American history!"

Now, go ahead and tell once again how FDR had nothing to do with Japanese American incarceration. You epitomize the scourge of a Liberal urban brainwashed education indoctrination.

OMG, your head is f*cked up.

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Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#870873 Mar 8, 2013
John Galt wrote:
<quoted text>
That might make sense except that the Socialist Democrat party replaced LBJ with his flunky toad, Humpty Dumpty.
Besides, LBJ passed more Socialist legislation than all other Presidents combined. If Obama had 10% of the political skills of LBJ, Boehner would be irrelevant, lily would have a single payer system, all firearms would be banned, tax rates would be 90%, and only homosexual marriages would be recognized.
Thank God for the US that Obama is completely lacking in interpersonal skills.
LBJ's Great Society legacy and affects can be found in every major metro area of the country here in the US.

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