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#870143 Mar 7, 2013
Does the Bible teach that the Church will be supernaturally removed (rapture)? Will the Church escape the tribulation? Is the rapture pretribulation pre-wrath, or post tribulation?
The best way to find out the truth is to correctly interpret God's word. In some cases this is easier said than done. Finding and correlating deep truths in some scriptures can be like mining for gold. It is hard work but it sure is worthwhile when you sift out a few nuggets. I expect God wanted it that way so that some things would be hidden from the adversary. The parables are prime examples of how Jesus gave truth to the children of the promise but the sons of darkness could not understand what He was talking about. Some of God's truths take scholarship and enlightenment by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes there may be more than one level of truth in a passage with insights that are revealed in time by the Holy Spirit as He deems appropriate. This is apparently the case with the truth about the rapture of the faithful Church.
#870144 Mar 7, 2013
I peg her and Flack at about the same in "communicating."
So what else do you have in mind?
#870145 Mar 7, 2013
Some teachers are blind about the rapture and Bible prophecy.
There are many theologians in some of the denominations who do not see that we are in the prophetic years because they allegorize or spiritualize all scripture dealing with the end times and the restoration of Israel. Unless there is clear indication for allegory, even common sense dictates that scripture writings should be taken in a literal sense. By allegorizing prophetic scripture these theologians can make it say just about anything they want. By applying the promises of God for Israel to the Church, they can do away with any literal fulfillment on earth. Scholars such as these really need to review why it is that they use human rationalization to distort the plain teaching of God's word.
I believe they do this either in ignorance due to their seminary training or because they do not wish to believe what God said about a literal fulfillment that includes a final world-wide judgment and thousand-year reign of Christ on earth from Jerusalem. They do not understand that the body of Jesus rose very early on the third day and that the body of Christ (the Church) will also rise very early on her third day - a day with the Lord is as a thousand years (2 Pe 3:8).
Liberty taking with the literal interpretation of prophetic scriptures in the past was not as critical a problem to the Church as it is today. In the past the Church in general had less knowledge of the scriptures and the Church was not near the prophetic years. Today, there is widespread access of scripture in the Church, so we do not have that excuse. In addition, there is more danger in applying scriptures meant for Israel to the Church. The theology that the Jews killed Christ and that God has cursed the descendants of Israel and given her promises to the Christian Church in recent times opened the door for the Jewish holocaust under Hitler. Those in replacement theology today may be opening a new door for the predicted worldwide holocaust against the Jews under the Beast Antichrist.
The Church is the body of Christ and is the firstborn into the promise of a new covenant. The Gentiles were grafted into that promise and that covenant because most of Israel rejected their Messiah and the natural branches were broken off so that wild branches could be grafted in (Gentiles). However, that promise and covenant was actually given to the house of Jacob and Judah without any conditions (Jer 31:31). When the nation of Israel acknowledges its offense, all in Israel who call on the name of the Lord will be grafted back in and receive their new covenant promise.
When the Father determines that the time has come, He will remove the faithful Church to heaven where she will become one with His Son. The earth at that time will be cleansed of evil doers prior to the return of Jesus in glory with His bride. At that time, He will set up the promised thousand-year reign on earth ruled from Jerusalem. When this occurs the promise of a new covenant to Israel will be fulfilled as the prophet Joel foretold.
Joe: 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
#870146 Mar 7, 2013
3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Is pretribulation rapture theology a new Church doctrine?
Some say there is no rapture of the Church prior to the tribulation and point out that it was not even taught to the Church until the 1800's.
In Grant Jeffrey's book "Triumphant Return", he writes that about 373 AD Ephraem taught in a sermon that there was a pre-tribulation rapture. This writing can be found in Ephraem's sermon "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.", Ephraem said in this sermon, "For the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins".
Ephraem also taught in this same sermon that the war of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38-39 would precede the tribulation and he taught the imminent return of Jesus.
Is the pretribulation rapture secret?
The rapture will not be secret. In fact the world has been informed that it will happen through many popular writings like the "Left Behind" series. The rapture event itself will be known to all who will witness the missing people. The "New Age" pagans have even pre-prepared explanations for the rapture in some of their writings.
Is there a pretribulation rapture?
In the rapture, the true Church of God is removed so they will not go through the trial that will come upon all the earth to try men's souls (they have no need to). Christ does not come back to take possession of the earth at that time. The rapture is just another phase of the first Resurrection that began with Jesus Christ. Jesus is the body of Christ and the true Church is also the body of Christ. The total membership making up the body of Christ must arise like Jesus to unite with Jesus. We must go before the bema seat judgment to be given the crowns that will allow us to rule and reign with Jesus when we return. If the rapture and second coming were at the same time you would have to make this judgment and the giving of the crowns an instantaneous event in the clouds at the second coming of Jesus. In the Jewish harvest, you have the first fruits, the general harvest and the gleaning. The harvest is not one event and neither is the resurrection of the saints. Revelation makes it clear that the 144,000 Israelites who have a ministry in the tribulation are still first fruits, so this would indicate that those in the true Church before the tribulation are also first fruits of this harvest.
There are well over a score of biblical passages that indicate that the return of Jesus for the Church is imminent. An imminent return is quite impossible if the tribulation has to happen first. Why would Jesus direct his people to be always ready and watching for His coming if they were meant to go through the tribulation and thus would be aware of His coming as much as seven years before He actually came?
After the letters to the seven churches of Revelation and what is seen in heaven, the focus of the book of Revelation on earth is on the Israelites again. We see the Jews fleeing into the wilderness, the rebuilt temple, the two prophets, the 144,000 Jewish witnesses, and all nations coming to fight against Israel.
The rapture of the faithful in contrast to the Revelation of Jesus at His coming
Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18 ----------Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14
#870148 Mar 7, 2013
WELL, IT'SA GOOD TO BE HOME AT LAST. FINALLY GOT MOVED INTO THE PALAZZO ANNA THE CONTRACTOR HE A DOIN' A GOODA JOB. ITTA BE A LOT BETTER IFFA HE EVER COME TO WORKA BUTTA THATA THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR TAKIN' THE LOW BID, AM I WRONG?
ANYWAY, SHITTIN' INNA BUCKET ISSA NOT THAT BAD, JESUS DID IT... FRANKLY, I BEEN THINKIN' A LOT ABOUT PETER ONNA THE ROAD TO ROME ANNA HE SHITTIN' ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD THE WHOLE WAY. THATTA MEAN THERE LUMPS OF PETRIFIED PETER-SHIT JUST ABOUT EVERY 20 MILES BETWEEN GALILEE AN' ROME. THASA LOTTA SACRED SHIT, NO WONDER HE'S A DA CATLICK
#870149 Mar 7, 2013
He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52 ----------Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30
Earth not judged ----------Earth judged Rev 20:4-5
A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51 ----------Foretold in OT Zech 12:10
Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18 3 Mat 13:28-30 -------Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1,
He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2 ---He comes with His Church for judgement and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9, Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21
Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12 ----------Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20
Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52----------Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3, Rev 16:16, Zec 12:9-10
Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8 ----------No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21
Sixteen scriptural proofs that the rapture is pre-tribulation *
Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection.
The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.
Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection.
This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection.
Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted.
In the Old Testament, there were two different pictures painted of the Messiahone suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these scriptures, we see they predicted two separate comings of the Messiahthe 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.
In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have two pictures painted which dont look the same. These two different descriptions of Jesus coming point to two separate events we call "the rapture" and "the second coming."
Proof #4: The Known Day and the Unknown Day.
Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.
Proof #5: A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1).
The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the Church being caught up at the rapture (see proof #6). In Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again, this time to let the armies which are already in heaven out. This is the Church, which has been raptured at a previous time, following Jesus out of heaven at the second coming.
#870150 Mar 7, 2013
#870151 Mar 7, 2013
Proof #6: "Come up here." (Revelation 4:1).
A voice called for the apostle John to "Come up here," and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church. The words "Come up here" are spoken to the two witnesses who are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, who are resurrected and ascend into heaven (Rev. 11:12). Therefore, the phrase "Come up here" could mean the Church is raptured in Rev. 4:1. The word "Church" is mentioned 22 times in Rev. 1-3, but is not mentioned again until Rev. 22:17.
**Proof #7: The 24 elders have their crowns.
After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place.
Proof #8 Holy ones are already with Jesus in heaven (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14).
The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4). These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture.
Proof #9: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10).
Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.
Proof #10: Angels don't resurrect people when they gather them for judgment.
When the angels are sent forth to gather the elect at the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), some have wrongly interpreted this as the rapture. There is one huge problem with this interpretation. If we are resurrected at this time, why would we need angels to gather us? In the resurrection, we will be like the angels (Matt. 22:30), able to travel in the air at will. Obviously, these people who are gathered are not resurrected, therefore it can't be the rapture. No one would claim the wicked are raptured at this time, yet Matthew 13:39-41, 49 says the angels will not only gather the elect, but also the wicked. This gathering is not a resurrection.
Proof #11: Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first.
First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.
Proof #12: Jesus returns from the wedding.
When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.
Proof #13: Jesus will receive us to Himself, not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3).
Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the rapture occurred at the same time as the second coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3.
“In the beginning God Created..”
Since: Feb 12
#870152 Mar 7, 2013
President Obama wants you to be healthy, happy and enjoy your life.
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Safe for diabetics.
Helps increase will power over food.
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3 day and 7 day trial packs available that cost no more than a fast food meal.
#870153 Mar 7, 2013
Proof #14: The one who restrains is taken out of the way.
In 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the Antichrist can be revealed. We believe this refers to the rapture because the Church is clearly the biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler.
Proof #15: The separation of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46).
If the rapture occurred at the second coming, why would the sheep and the goats need to be separated immediately after the second coming? A rapture at the second coming would have already separated the sheep and the goats. With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture will need to be separated after the second coming.
Proof #16: Who will populate the Millennium?
If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium
*16 proofs are from Cornerstone Church garden city Kansas website **(I do not think proof 7 is valid since I do not believe the 24 elders are the Church)
#870154 Mar 7, 2013
Interesting ... But, if I understood correctly, < and perhaps I didn't >, hollow point ammunition is illegal under International Law to use in War.
And also for personal use in many States.
So, that still leaves the question ...
Why are Domestic/Obscure US Federal Agencies, such as The SSA, DHS, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration ~NOAA purchasing massive amounts of hollow point ammo?
"Sources have further indicated that ammunition and firearms have been delivered to multiple agencies of the federal government, including the Environmental Protection Agency, the Department of Education, the Department of Health and Human Services, and the Internal Revenue Service, among others".
#870155 Mar 7, 2013
HOLY-A CHRIST! YOU GOTTA REPRINT THE WHOLE THING THATTA JUS' MEAN YOU NEVER READ IT AND ARE COUNTING ON THAT SOMEBODY ELSE'LL READ IT ANNA TEL YOU WHATTA IT MEAN. TAKE A BREAK. YOU BORN, YOU LIVE, YOU DIE, THATSA BOUT IT. THE REST OF THAT STUFF IS JUSTA FOR THE RUBES. I NAIL YOU UP LIKE A TURKEY, THEN STICK A FORK IN YOU TO FIND OUT IFFA YOU DONE, YOU DONE! YOU NOT COMIN' BACK NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU WAIT OR HOW MANY LATIN MASSES YOU ATTEND. WHATTA YOU STUPID? I GOTTA GO PRETTY SOON, JEOPARDY'S ON.
#870156 Mar 7, 2013
We People are not the ones being blindly led like liberal sheeple.
You are being fed A LIE. And without questioning, swallowing it
Believing the disinformation the radical leftist liberal party and media are floating.
You are RealStoopID.
#870158 Mar 7, 2013
Federal Law Enforcement Agencies Buy Ammunition
You may recently have seen some in the Internet rumor mill feverishly repeating the obvious truth above, in an effort to stir up fear about recent acquisitions of ammunition by the Department of Homeland Security and a number of smaller agencies. The mildest writers have questioned why seemingly mundane agencies would need ammunition at all; more incendiary authors suggest that these government agencies are preparing for a war with the American people.
Much of the concern stems from a lack of understanding of the law enforcement functions carried about by officers in small federal agencies. These agents have the power to make arrests and execute warrants, just like their better-known counterparts at agencies like the FBI.
As most gun owners will agree, skepticism of government is healthy. But today, there are more than enough actual threats to the Second Amendment to keep gun owners busy. With two key Supreme Court decisions hanging by a one-vote margin, the Justice Department deeply involved in a cover-up of a disastrous Mexican gun smuggling operation, and President Obama touting a ban on popular semi-automatic firearms, there is no need to invent additional threats to our rights.
#870159 Mar 7, 2013
THATSA THE THING ABOUT "RELIGIOUS" PEOPLE, THEY JUSTA SCARED ANNA ARE LOOKIN' FOR A WAY OUT OF THEIR GUILT. MAYBE THEY DIDDLED THEIR SISTER, THE DOG, THEIR MOM, THEIR DAD, DON'T REALLY MATTER, THEY DID SUMTHIN WRONG IN THEIR EYES AND ARE LOOKIN' FOR A WAY OUT.
ITSA TOO HARD FOR THEM TO JUST FACE WHATEVER IT IS THEY'VE DONE OR WHATTA BEEN DONE TO THEM SO THEY PUT IT OFF TIL AFTER THEY DEAD. IT MAKESA SENSE IN A SORTA QUEASY WAY. "FORGIVE ME FATHER FOR I HAVE SINNED WITH ABOUT A THOUSAND CHILDREN IN CHURCH," "NO PROBLEM MY SON, IF YOU TRULY REPENTANT GOD FORGIVES YOU." WHATA SACKA SHIT. ANYWAYS, GOTTA GO, IT APPEARS THE FRONT DOOR ISSA FALLIN' OFFA DA HOUSE AN THE POPE DON'T WANT TO KILL NOBODY UNDULY.
#870160 Mar 7, 2013
YA KNOW, IFFA DA BIBLE AIN'T SPAM, THEN WHAT IS? BEEN POSTIN' THE SAME OL' SHIT FOR 1700 YEARS. SHEESH!
#870162 Mar 7, 2013
HERE'SA PRIME EXAMPLE: THISSA CLOWN PERFORM THE MASONIC ONLINE HANDSHAKE BY POSTIN' WITHA THE THREE SPACES BETWEEN SINGLE LINES OF TRIPE. IT NEVER ENDS. ESOTERICA ALLOWS THE PLAIN TO FEEL SPECIAL. SHEESH! HINT: IT'S SECRET CODE, IT READS, "HELP! I'M POWERLESS AND STUPID!" ^5
Since: Sep 10
#870163 Mar 7, 2013
Wasn't more than a month ago the nitwits, including you, were complaining about an American killed by a drone in Yemen.
You said he was an American and Obama had no right to kill him without due process. Even though he was working with Al Queda!! That's how stupid you nitwits are!!
You were too old and dumb to remember that Bush had done the same thing.
Since: Sep 10
#870164 Mar 7, 2013
You appear to enjoy coming here and making a fool of yourself.
First off, wheat is sold on commodities markets in Chicago, not on Wall St. DUH
Second, the rise in equities has been slow and steady, as compared to 1929, when the market had risen by 400% between 1923 and 1929.
Under Obama, it's risen over 100% in four years, look at the chart, it is very orderly.
Third, it has no bearing on the earnings of Corporations, which were seriously overvalued, with P/E's averaging 60. Unsustainable in any era.
You're such a lightweight. You e]read an article and suddenly you have the answer to what caused the crash of 1929, which economists are still studying. But it's all easy for an over the road trucker, eh??
Let me spell it out for you, truck boy;
Causes of the Crash
There were many causes that resulted in the great depression of 1929. The first and foremost reason is overvalued stocks. Analysts tell that the stocks were priced much and the P/E ratios were quite high. The P/E ratio of the traded stocks in 1929 averaged around 60. Another reason that has been deduced is that of margin buying. Investors had to pay just 10% of the total value of the stocks at the time of buying and the rest they could pay in installments. The stock market could not stay stabilized when such a huge amount of money was borrowed from it. Analysts found out that in 1929, almost 5% of the total value of the stock market was due to margin buying.
The federal policies are also to be blamed as said by the analysts. The prevailing president of the Federal Reserve Board, Mr. Adolph Miller introduced very strict monetary policies. The rates of interest on the broker loans were unnaturally increased making it all the more difficult for the investors. Bad banking structure can also be blamed for the great depression of 1929. There was huge number of new banks that were cropping up every single day. The restrictions that were imposed by the federation werent good enough. They didnt have any regulation to determine the minimum capital required to start up a bank or any rules regarding the amount of reserves that was allowed to be lent. Obviously most of these banks were insolvent and were closing at an equally faster rate as they were opening up. When the market crashed in 1929, the situations became worse. These banks which had invested in stocks heavily couldnt were perished due to the market crash.
Reforms After the Crash
The stock market crash of 1929 resulted in a loss of around $14 billion of wealth. Now after the crash certain reform acts had to be set up to again stabilize the market. One of the steps that was taken was the setting up of the Securities and Exchange Commission or the SEC. The role of this institution was to lay down the market rules and punish in case of any violation of the laws. An Act called the Glass-Stegall Act was passed. This act told that the commercial and the investment banks could no longer have any association between them. But as the time passed the federal rules and the Glass- Stegall rule have liberalized to a great extent. The other reform that was introduced was the establishment of the Federal deposit Insurance Corporation or the FDIC. This was meant to see that each and every individual bank account was insured up to $100000.
Since: Sep 10
#870165 Mar 7, 2013
What assurance?? Again, you talk thru your ass with forked hemmoroids!!
He said he wouldn't kill Americans who weren't involved in combat on American soil.
""It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question:Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil? The answer to that question is no.
So he said he could kill Americans, so long as he determined they were 'enemy combatants'!!
You're really stupid for a guy who lies about everything!!
That's like you declaring victory when you lie about fake ivy league children and fancy cars!!
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