Illinois rethinks taking driver's licenses for traffic tickets

Full story: Chicago Tribune

As if the $125 ticket wasn't bad enough, Lauren Kamm's illegal left turn onto Ashland Avenue in Chicago earned her an extra surprise: Her driver's license was confiscated.
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301 - 320 of 359 Comments Last updated Jun 10, 2014
city dude

Chicago, IL

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#321
Mar 9, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
again , i have been going to court on this for 11 years, but if you want to test it for your self.
go through the intersection of montrose and cicero in the early morning. i'll pull you over and write that very ticket.
you request a court appearence, and we will both testify , in the court of law. and lets see who wins.
but if your not willing to take my advice , then its on you.
albany park
cpd
Oh, I don't doubt for a minute that the judges are in cahoots with you -- their salary also comes from the public trough.

That's not what the LAW says, though -- the law says you can't enter the intersection after the light turns RED. It doesn't say that you can't enter the intersection after the light turns YELLOW. Forget about what happens in court -- when was the last time you read the actual statute?

That you are able to make tickets stick on a bullshhit call by a judge doesn't make you right -- it's just a gross misinterpretation of the codified rule o traffic law. But hey, whatever gets you to your quota -- which doesn't exist, of course.
city dude

Chicago, IL

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#322
Mar 9, 2008
 
Long Time Chicagoan wrote:
<quoted text>
I once spent most of a day in traffic court; sat through hundreds of one-minute cases. The cops won every last one.
Probably because the defendants (the motorists) weren't adequately prepared to defend themselves.

I helped my Dad beat a traffic ticket issued by the North Riverside police -- he was cited for "avoiding a traffic calming device".

What he did was straddle a speed bump so that his right tire didn't go over the speed bump while his left tire did. As anybody with a vehicle with split differential and / or independent wheel suspension knows, you can go over speed bumps without slowing down by using this maneuver.

When my Dad's case was called and the judge asked for his side of the story, he said that he couldn't find anything in the Rules of the Road that stated he had to slow down for a speed bump. The prosecution WAS NOT prepared to refute this and the judge allowed the prosecutor to go into some office and dig out a book on the rules for the judge while we waited for 15 minutes. After reviewing the book, the judge agreed that there was nothing in the rules regarding traffic calming devices and dismissed the case.

The cops were pissed alright, and the prosecutor got smug with my Dad and said, "You got very lucky today, buddy". I couldn't resist; I replied, "Why, because we caught the cops making up the law as they go along?"

I think I might take "Chicago Cop" up on his offer on second thought, and enter the intersection of Montrose and Cicero on the yellow, let him write me a ticket, GO POST CASH BOND AT THE POLICE STATION, and then come to court armed with the law -- maybe I'll catch a judge who can read the law for comprehension; if not, maybe I'll dial up a reporter like John Kass and let him know what is happening in Traffic Court.

chicago cop

United States

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#323
Mar 10, 2008
 
city dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I don't doubt for a minute that the judges are in cahoots with you -- their salary also comes from the public trough.
That's not what the LAW says, though -- the law says you can't enter the intersection after the light turns RED. It doesn't say that you can't enter the intersection after the light turns YELLOW. Forget about what happens in court -- when was the last time you read the actual statute?
That you are able to make tickets stick on a bullshhit call by a judge doesn't make you right -- it's just a gross misinterpretation of the codified rule o traffic law. But hey, whatever gets you to your quota -- which doesn't exist, of course.
oh yeah we are in cahouts with the judges, almost like doctors and insurance companies.

no matter what i say your always going to have something to come back, i posted that comment to make drivers aware of this, from where i see it many drivers not only go through intersections when light turns yellow , they also speed up to do so.

so if you say your going 30 mph and cant stop on the dime, hey maybe you should speed up and get through. the second violation.

but hey if you feel i wrong with trying to inform the citizens about this, then i wouldnt be doing my job as to inforce public safety , and teaching people about such safety.

let me ask you this simple question,

your traveling westbound on irving park , appraoching central ave , you also have 2 cars traveling e/b ,in the intersection waiting to turn left on to n/b central . light turns yellow , so your telling me that the turning cars should wait until the light turns red before they turn, or should'nt they be doing so on the yellow light.

that is why we have so many accidents in intersection, because instead of slowing down when approaching a intersection , people are speeding up.

as far as quotas , sure their are , and these numbers are based on how many accidents occured in area. but just because there is a number , given to help slow down traffic or help people change their bad driving habits, doesnt mean that we as a police department are out their pulling over anyone, we see a violator , write them, and give them a chance to present their evidence in court , on why they are not guilty of said violation.

remember drive safe
chicago cop

United States

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#324
Mar 10, 2008
 
city dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably because the defendants (the motorists) weren't adequately prepared to defend themselves.
I helped my Dad beat a traffic ticket issued by the North Riverside police -- he was cited for "avoiding a traffic calming device".
What he did was straddle a speed bump so that his right tire didn't go over the speed bump while his left tire did. As anybody with a vehicle with split differential and / or independent wheel suspension knows, you can go over speed bumps without slowing down by using this maneuver.
When my Dad's case was called and the judge asked for his side of the story, he said that he couldn't find anything in the Rules of the Road that stated he had to slow down for a speed bump. The prosecution WAS NOT prepared to refute this and the judge allowed the prosecutor to go into some office and dig out a book on the rules for the judge while we waited for 15 minutes. After reviewing the book, the judge agreed that there was nothing in the rules regarding traffic calming devices and dismissed the case.
The cops were pissed alright, and the prosecutor got smug with my Dad and said, "You got very lucky today, buddy". I couldn't resist; I replied, "Why, because we caught the cops making up the law as they go along?"
I think I might take "Chicago Cop" up on his offer on second thought, and enter the intersection of Montrose and Cicero on the yellow, let him write me a ticket, GO POST CASH BOND AT THE POLICE STATION, and then come to court armed with the law -- maybe I'll catch a judge who can read the law for comprehension; if not, maybe I'll dial up a reporter like John Kass and let him know what is happening in Traffic Court.
ok nice made up story,

first the judge would not go back for 15 min, to check the wording , second the cop really cares less whether a traffic violator gets off, and the prosecuter would never tell someone the got lucky.

but hey do what you have to do,

but let it be known i know JOHN KASS
chicago cop

United States

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#325
Mar 10, 2008
 
city dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Completely FALSE. Shame on you, "Chicago Cop" -- you ought to know better than that.
From the 2008 version of the Illinois Rules of the Road:
"Yellow light The yellow light warns that the signal is changing from green to red. When the ***red light appears***(emphasis mine), you may not enter the intersection."
TRAFFIC CODE

9-8-020 (B)(2) CIRCULAR YELLOW SIGNAL/RESTRICTED FROM ENTERING INTERSECTION.

vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being TERMINATED. vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection.
Hal

Elgin, IL

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#326
Mar 10, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
<quoted text>
TRAFFIC CODE
9-8-020 (B)(2) CIRCULAR YELLOW SIGNAL/RESTRICTED FROM ENTERING INTERSECTION.
vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being TERMINATED. vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection.
Is that a Chicago local ordinance? that might explain different wording/meaning. The state code always was "not allowed to enter intersection after light turns RED." Not saying it should necessarily be one way or the other, but it should be uniform statewide, and any exceptions should be clearly posted. Until now I had never heard of "ticket for going through a YELLOW light. It sounds like a real money-maker for Daley. Are the "red-light" cameras actually "yellow-light" cameras?
JMB

Lake Forest, IL

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#327
Mar 10, 2008
 
AKG wrote:
what about getting away from the tickets altogether.. it is a scam to raise money especially when you get caught for changing lane without giving a signal on an almost empty road....
Signaling a change lane is a common cutisy to let the other drive now that you are swiching lanes. There is no law on it.
chicago cop

United States

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#328
Mar 10, 2008
 
Hal wrote:
<quoted text>Is that a Chicago local ordinance? that might explain different wording/meaning. The state code always was "not allowed to enter intersection after light turns RED." Not saying it should necessarily be one way or the other, but it should be uniform statewide, and any exceptions should be clearly posted. Until now I had never heard of "ticket for going through a YELLOW light. It sounds like a real money-maker for Daley. Are the "red-light" cameras actually "yellow-light" cameras?
THIS COMES FROM THE CHICAGO TRAFFIC CODE, AND YOUR RIGHT I DONT SEE MANY WRITING THIS TICKET.BUT IT IS THEIR ON THE BOOKS.

JUST LIKE AS A POLICE OFFICER I CAN WRITE A OWNER OF A DOG , WHO OUT IN PUBLIC WITH THEIR DOG, DOESN'T HAVE THE MEANS ( BAG ) TO REMOVE DOO-DOO. EVEN IF THE DOG HASN'T GONE .
chicago cop

United States

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#329
Mar 10, 2008
 
JMB wrote:
<quoted text>
Signaling a change lane is a common cutisy to let the other drive now that you are swiching lanes. There is no law on it.
I THINK YOU MIGHT BE WRONG ON THIS , BUT I DO NEED TO READ THE STATUE.

VIOLATION 625 ILCS 5/11-709a lane change on expressway.
city dude

United States

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#330
Mar 10, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
<quoted text>
ok nice made up story,
first the judge would not go back for 15 min, to check the wording , second the cop really cares less whether a traffic violator gets off, and the prosecuter would never tell someone the got lucky.
but hey do what you have to do,
but let it be known i know JOHN KASS
Believe what you want. I remember the day like it was yesterday because it was freezing cold and there was absolutely no place to park around the Maywood court facility.

To clarify, the judge did not leave the bench -- she sent an assistant to go get the book while we all waited. The court had already been cleared of the folks pleading guilty or no contest, so it was down to my Dad and another guy who got a ticket for the same exact thing.

The fact is, the N. Riverside officers WERE muttering and shaking their heads after the judge made her decision (how else should I interpret this?), and the prosecutor DID act like a smug pr.ick afterwards.

The guys after us got called, and before he could say a word, the judge looked at his violation and said, "I suppose you'll want to use the same defense. Dismissed."
city dude

United States

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#331
Mar 10, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
<quoted text>
let me ask you this simple question,
your traveling westbound on irving park , appraoching central ave , you also have 2 cars traveling e/b ,in the intersection waiting to turn left on to n/b central . light turns yellow , so your telling me that the turning cars should wait until the light turns red before they turn, or should'nt they be doing so on the yellow light.
OK, now you are OFFICIALLY busted: you are NOT a police officer.

Any real police officer would tell you that you DO NOT make the left turn until it is safe to do so, regardless of the color of the traffic signal.

Using your logic, I can't complete my left turn legally at any intersection where oncoming traffic has a longer green -- my light will be red long before their's, and yet there I am, stuck in the left turn lane & looking at a red light.

You're a fraud. Stop already.
chicago cop

United States

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#332
Mar 10, 2008
 
city dude wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, now you are OFFICIALLY busted: you are NOT a police officer.
Any real police officer would tell you that you DO NOT make the left turn until it is safe to do so, regardless of the color of the traffic signal.
Using your logic, I can't complete my left turn legally at any intersection where oncoming traffic has a longer green -- my light will be red long before their's, and yet there I am, stuck in the left turn lane & looking at a red light.
You're a fraud. Stop already.
like i said now your the one not using common sense, and of course throwing in the oncoming traffic has longer green , is just throwing in a different scenerio , that i wasnt referraring to.

if you want to go back and fourth on this at least stick with the same subject i am.

hoping i run into you
This just in

United States

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#333
Mar 10, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
<quoted text>
like i said now your the one not using common sense, and of course throwing in the oncoming traffic has longer green , is just throwing in a different scenerio , that i wasnt referraring to.
if you want to go back and fourth on this at least stick with the same subject i am.

hoping i run into you

Different scenario but same topic, and you conveniently sidestepped the issue of making a left turn only when it is safe to do so...because it doesn't fit your contrived argument.

Regarding your "hoping i run into you" statement, why don't you post your name, badge number, and station? Do this, and you won't have to run into me -- I'll come look you at your station. I want to know what Chicago police officer has such a poor understanding of traffic laws.

If you are a Chicago cop and you believe your are right about what you have posted here, you have no reason to not post your name and badge number; anything less, any excuse why you can't do this, and...well, you know.
chicago cop

United States

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#334
Mar 10, 2008
 
sure as soon as you post your name address and you plate number
This just in

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#335
Mar 10, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
sure as soon as you post your name address and you plate number
Umm...YOU are the one claiming to be a cop...an "authority" on the subject in which you are posting.

Certainly, if you are a REAL cop, you shouldn't have any problem posting your name and badge number...right? You don't have any claim to need privacy, do you? You are a municipal employee -- part of the public record.

Or you could just end the charade, man up, and admit that you are not a cop. But no matter -- you have no excuse for not posting your name and badge number, so if you continue to evade the issue, we'll know. Your choice.

This just in

United States

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#336
Mar 10, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
sure as soon as you post your name address and you plate number
Umm...YOU are the one claiming to be a Chicago cop. If you are a REAL cop, it should be no problem for you to post your name and badge number -- as a municipal employee, your static personal information is a matter of public record anyway.

Of course, you could also man up and admit that you are NOT a real cop, and end this charade. But that isn't strictly necessary -- just continue to evade the issue and don't post your name and badge number, and we will have our answer anyway.

Your choice.
chicago cop

United States

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#337
Mar 10, 2008
 
officer krumkie # 12345
This just in

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#338
Mar 10, 2008
 
chicago cop wrote:
officer krumkie # 12345
You were in "West Side Story"?

Fine, I'll look you up tomorrow...although badge # "12345" ssems a bit suspicious.

You said before that you hang out at Montrose and Cicero -- that is the border between the 16th and the 17th, so you should be very easy to verify.
This just in

United States

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#339
Mar 11, 2008
 
This just in wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine, I'll look you up tomorrow...although badge # "12345" ssems a bit suspicious.

You said before that you hang out at Montrose and Cicero -- that is the border between the 16th and the 17th, so you should be very easy to verify.
Per the Watch Commander at the 16th and the 17th:

* No "Officer Krumkie"

* No badge number 12345

As I suspected, "chicago cop" is a fraud, making stuff up here about the law based on how he'd like people to drive or how he (mis)understands the rules.
chicago cop

Chicago, IL

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#340
Mar 11, 2008
 
This just in wrote:
<quoted text>
Per the Watch Commander at the 16th and the 17th:
* No "Officer Krumkie"
* No badge number 12345
As I suspected, "chicago cop" is a fraud, making stuff up here about the law based on how he'd like people to drive or how he (mis)understands the rules.
name of watch commander you talked to both in 016- 017.

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