Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#81 Mar 13, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>??
That makes absolutely no sense.
So he goes to pick his sons up. At a house that was his home for over a decade. And its only human nature to want to check the place out if she's there, but since she's not human nature is to not want to look around? WTF?
I'm not saying he has a right to go snooping around, but its human nature that he wants to check the place out. Her being there is a hindrance to him acting upon that. Which is fine.
Hell, when I got married and moved out of my friends house, I had the same kind of curiosity whenever I went over for a visit. Curious as to what's different from when I was there. I didn't act upon that curiosity and go wandering into bedrooms, but I certainly noticed anything that was different.
I should have expanded my answer. If it was human nature for him to just walk into the house, he would have ALSO done it when his exwife was there.

I thought you were saying it was human nature to have the habit to walk into a house you lived for so long. I didn't realize you were saying it was human nature to have that curiosity. That's not a good enough excuse to go into someone's house -- because you're curious? No, he's an ahole is why he did it.

I'm curious about many things. I don't act on all my curiosities.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#82 Mar 13, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Still not seeing it. Do you equate guilt and burden? I can see someone feeling a sense of guilt over what you have described(though I wouldn't. I reserve feelings of guilt for my own actions, not someone else's).
How about "The burden of guilt"?

Just because you wouldn't feel it doesn't mean others don't.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Lawrence, MA

#83 Mar 13, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>What does that mean? Give an example of this burden you feel can be created.
People have tried explaining this to you. You won't or can't get it.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#85 Mar 13, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
People have tried explaining this to you. You won't or can't get it.
People have not explained jack. You especially. You say its a burden. You say it does harm. Well give me an tangible example. Your granny was raped 80 years ago. and you find out now after she's dead. Go. Describe the harm that occurs.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#86 Mar 13, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>People have not explained jack. You especially. You say its a burden. You say it does harm. Well give me an tangible example. Your granny was raped 80 years ago. and you find out now after she's dead. Go. Describe the harm that occurs.
I'm in your camp on this one. While I can understand people being disappointed that people in their ancestry tree did horrible things or horrible things were done to them, I don't feel it says anything about the person.

BUT, I do know some people tend to blame a whole family or line for a bad apple. I bet if you interviewed John Gacy's family or Jeffrey Dahmer's family, they've probably experienced a lot of hatred personally for what their relative did.

I think the people putting that kind of hatred on the relatives and not on the person who actually perpetrated the wrong doings are the ones who should be ashamed.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#87 Mar 13, 2013
Toj wrote:
BUT, I do know some people tend to blame a whole family or line for a bad apple. I bet if you interviewed John Gacy's family or Jeffrey Dahmer's family, they've probably experienced a lot of hatred personally for what their relative did.
I think the people putting that kind of hatred on the relatives and not on the person who actually perpetrated the wrong doings are the ones who should be ashamed.
ITA.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#88 Mar 13, 2013
HOWEVER: Those monsters didn't grow up in close, loving families. Ed Gein is a direct product of his psycho, abusive parents, for example. The Unabomber, same thing -- messed up household/parents/childhood.

I don't think the men who grow up to rape and murder 20 boys came from loving households with good parents. It doesn't meanyou have to be a 'Perfect" parent, but there is a bare minimum the job requires.

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Memphis, TN

#89 Mar 13, 2013
RACE wrote:
How bad Thomas ancestor had it was no better or worse than anybody else s ancestor who was a slave. I want to know why you think thomas has some special right to offense. A right so special you condone violence as an acceptable response to so someones bad attempt at a joke.
What makes Thomas 'Akpu-nku' Slave ancestry so different that Thomas Goldstein's? Why aren't you encouraging mutt to go and say that to you Jewish friends?
And you seem to be the one trying to minimize the impact of slavery not me. You are completely dismissing the fact every race has either been a slave or had some.
<quoted text>
Jump to conclusions much? I dismissed nothing. I addressed the topic that had been raised. I did not know that my response had to be comprehensive as to all who could possibly have been at all affected. You're just trying to pick a fight by making stuff up - again. The issue was raised of people touring the cabins of black slaves from the south. I did not know that my response had to address the plight of every other enslaved race in every other geographic region. Likewise, Mutt's response addressed black slaves. That is what I replied to. It's called staying on topic. Had Mutt said something about how enjoyable concentration camps were, I would likewise encourage him to have that discussion with a holocaust survivor or their descendant.

And please tell me how I condoned violence. Another ridiculous inference, the only purpose of which it to instigate. I simply believe that you should have the conviction to share a viewpoint with those most affected. If Thomas was a 60-yr.-old 85 lb. woman, I would still make the same suggestion. I cannot think of a view that I hold that I would not be willing to discuss with whoever is affected by that view.

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Memphis, TN

#90 Mar 13, 2013
RACE wrote:
No, it means nobody has a corner on that market. The way you phrased it you implied that these co-workers of yours had some special right to take offense to such a statement. Well, they don't.
My ancestors were probably slaves at one time also, and I dont feel any entitlement about beating anybody up for saying something.
<quoted text>
Who ever said that someone has to have a corner on any market to take legitimate offense to something? Are you saying a person's predicament has to be unique to them for them to have a worthy gripe?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#91 Mar 13, 2013
No, you are.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
Who ever said that someone has to have a corner on any market to take legitimate offense to something? Are you saying a person's predicament has to be unique to them for them to have a worthy gripe?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#92 Mar 13, 2013
No, mutt addressed slavery in general, you made it a black thing and that was my whole point. You think slavery only happened to blacks and that was what I corrected you on.
Even still you only see it as a black thing, to you slavery did not happen to the jews, the holocaust did.
You are the one who wants slavery to "Only " be about blacks.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
Mutt's response addressed black slaves. That is what I replied to. It's called staying on topic. Had Mutt said something about how enjoyable concentration camps were, I would likewise encourage him to have that discussion with a holocaust survivor or their descendant.
There are a couple guys here in the office I would love for you to have the opportunity to discuss this with. I would be particularly interested in seeing how flip you are with them. I am even more interested in seeing if anyone bothers to call the paramedics for you.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
And please tell me how I condoned violence. Another ridiculous inference, the only purpose of which it to instigate. I simply believe that you should have the conviction to share a viewpoint with those most affected. If Thomas was a 60-yr.-old 85 lb. woman, I would still make the same suggestion. I cannot think of a view that I hold that I would not be willing to discuss with whoever is affected by that view.
Care to back pedal on how your not encouraging violence?

You still suck at debating.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#93 Mar 13, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
HOWEVER: Those monsters didn't grow up in close, loving families. Ed Gein is a direct product of his psycho, abusive parents, for example. The Unabomber, same thing -- messed up household/parents/childhood.
I don't think the men who grow up to rape and murder 20 boys came from loving households with good parents. It doesn't meanyou have to be a 'Perfect" parent, but there is a bare minimum the job requires.
Agreed, but you can never be sure. Certainly, a cousin or an aunt did raise those kids either, yet they would probably be looked on in the same way.

There are times that the parents should really take a lot of the blame. Definitely.

Here's a piece of the Dahmer interview with Larry King (I thought it was interesting):

"KING: We're back with the Dahmers now. Remember, a lot of the things they learned, they learned much later, like the dead animals...

LIONEL DAHMER: Exactly.

KING:... where you didn't know that age 13.

LIONEL DAHMER: We're sitting in the courtroom, just stunned, without any sleep.

KING: What did he do with the animals?

LIONEL DAHMER: Well, he examined them and he cut into them, cut them open to examine the insides of the animals. And by the way, a lot of people have been telling me that they've done the same thing, but they didn't turn out like Jeff. But there was one thing that was different with Jeff. He did what most all of us young males do when the hormones kick in tremendously, and he was doing something sexually with them. And I think the neuronal connections, you know, made contact and sort of hard-wired Jeff, so to speak."

Link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0406/1...

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Memphis, TN

#94 Mar 13, 2013
RACE wrote:
No, mutt addressed slavery in general, you made it a black thing and that was my whole point. You think slavery only happened to blacks and that was what I corrected you on.
Even still you only see it as a black thing, to you slavery did not happen to the jews, the holocaust did.
You are the one who wants slavery to "Only " be about blacks.
<quoted text>
There are a couple guys here in the office I would love for you to have the opportunity to discuss this with. I would be particularly interested in seeing how flip you are with them. I am even more interested in seeing if anyone bothers to call the paramedics for you.
<quoted text>
Care to back pedal on how your not encouraging violence?
You still suck at debating.
Your reading comprehension is lacking to say the least. These comments by Mutt...

Contrary to popular misconceptions, slaves were not kept chained to walls and whipped and lashed regularly. Slaves were very expensive, about the price of a fancy car (which is why only the wealthy owned them,) and were therefore treated much better than people would believe.
Free room and board... guaranteed employment... farmer's daughters

...were in the context of black slaves.

Please show me where I said anything remotely close to "Slavery did not happen to the Jews." No statement anything like that by me exists.

What I said about Mutt stating his position directly to the guys in my office was not condoning violence, it was acknowledging a possible outcome. Responding to words with violence is almost never acceptable, but for better or for worse, it is a possible outcome, especially when someone says something as idiotic and misguided as what Mutt was saying. If you want to turn acknowledging a potential outcome into condoning, go right ahead. It amuses me how you will go out of your way to mit pick when it suits you and likewise to paint with a broad brush when it suits you. Anything to rationalize a position.

So, you really have nothing better to do than instigate arguments about stuff I never said?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#95 Mar 13, 2013
This is what you replied to...


edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Free room and board... guaranteed employment... farmer's daughters...
There might be a downside I don't see...

There are a couple guys here in the office I would love for you to have the opportunity to discuss this with. I would be particularly interested in seeing how flip you are with them. I am even more interested in seeing if anyone bothers to call the paramedics for you.

__________

Talk to me about nit picking! You were very specific in what you were choosing to respond to.

If you want to give me a heart attack, admit your wrong sometime. See? I will live forever.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
Your reading comprehension is lacking to say the least. These comments by Mutt...
Contrary to popular misconceptions, slaves were not kept chained to walls and whipped and lashed regularly. Slaves were very expensive, about the price of a fancy car (which is why only the wealthy owned them,) and were therefore treated much better than people would believe.
Free room and board... guaranteed employment... farmer's daughters
...were in the context of black slaves.
Please show me where I said anything remotely close to "Slavery did not happen to the Jews." No statement anything like that by me exists.
What I said about Mutt stating his position directly to the guys in my office was not condoning violence, it was acknowledging a possible outcome. Responding to words with violence is almost never acceptable, but for better or for worse, it is a possible outcome, especially when someone says something as idiotic and misguided as what Mutt was saying. If you want to turn acknowledging a potential outcome into condoning, go right ahead. It amuses me how you will go out of your way to mit pick when it suits you and likewise to paint with a broad brush when it suits you. Anything to rationalize a position.
So, you really have nothing better to do than instigate arguments about stuff I never said?

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#96 Mar 13, 2013
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>If you want to turn acknowledging a potential outcome into condoning, go right ahead.
You did more than acknowledge a potential outcome. You also suggested that no one would call an ambulance for him.

The fact that you suggested that no one would bother to call an ambulance for him, suggests that you would in fact condone violence and also suggests that others in your office would as well, but nice try.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#97 Mar 13, 2013
So, we can say that I was not wishing cancer on you, just acknowledging a possibility.
Sam I Am GEAM wrote:
<quoted text>
What I said about Mutt stating his position directly to the guys in my office was not condoning violence, it was acknowledging a possible outcome. Responding to words with violence is almost never acceptable, but for better or for worse, it is a possible outcome, especially when someone says something as idiotic and misguided as what Mutt was saying. If you want to turn acknowledging a potential outcome into condoning, go right ahead. It amuses me how you will go out of your way to mit pick when it suits you and likewise to paint with a broad brush when it suits you. Anything to rationalize a position.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#98 Mar 13, 2013
LOL picturing sam with steam coming out of his ears!
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You did more than acknowledge a potential outcome. You also suggested that no one would call an ambulance for him.
The fact that you suggested that no one would bother to call an ambulance for him, suggests that you would in fact condone violence and also suggests that others in your office would as well, but nice try.

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Nashville, TN

#99 Mar 13, 2013
RACE wrote:
This is what you replied to...
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Free room and board... guaranteed employment... farmer's daughters...
There might be a downside I don't see...
There are a couple guys here in the office I would love for you to have the opportunity to discuss this with. I would be particularly interested in seeing how flip you are with them. I am even more interested in seeing if anyone bothers to call the paramedics for you.
__________
Talk to me about nit picking! You were very specific in what you were choosing to respond to.
If you want to give me a heart attack, admit your wrong sometime. See? I will live forever.
<quoted text>
That confrontation would be quite entertaining without any physical violence whatsoever. I already specified what I was responding to, and now you are cherry-picking for the sake of fabricating an argument. Bored today are we? That confrontation would be just as entertaining as the one with you rationalizing your position on gun control to the families of the victims of Newtown, as the one with government officials rationalizing equipping of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with inferior equipment, with Congress rationalizing why everyone but them has to take pay cuts or sacrifice in some other way because they can't balance the budget. It is very easy to spout something when you don't have to face the fire.

Again, I cannot think of a view that I hold that I would not feel comfortable addressing with the opposition or the affected. Can you say the same?

“FD&S is no way to be.”

Since: Feb 13

Nashville, TN

#100 Mar 13, 2013
RACE wrote:
So, we can say that I was not wishing cancer on you, just acknowledging a possibility.
<quoted text>
Nope, you said you hope I get lung cancer. That is not acknowledging a possibility, that is desiring an outcome. Golly you're ridiculous.

You also said you'd like to see me step in front of a train. If you want to pay your word-bending game, you could say "Well, I didn't say I wanted t you to get hit by a train, just to step in front of one." You could twist that into acknowledging a possibility. But you lose on the cancer thing. BTW, still no lumps.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#101 Mar 13, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
You say it does harm. Well give me an tangible example. Your granny was raped 80 years ago. and you find out now after she's dead. Go. Describe the harm that occurs.
I'd want my last memory of my grandmother to be one of a loving, caring, kind woman. To find out she'd been hiding a deep, dark secret and now my memory of her is of a psychologically damaged victim of child [email protected] could cause me emotional harm and damage. HOW exactly? Who knows? Maybe I'd start torturing animals or something. The HOW I might be harmed is frankly irrelevant. You're wanting a specific answer when a specific answer doesn't exist. Once again, your entire argument is illogical. Who cares HOW or WHAT? Who cares?

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