The rush to clear police in shootings

There are 20 comments on the Dec 4, 2007, Chicago Tribune story titled The rush to clear police in shootings. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

On a summer night in 2003, two patrol cars pulled over a driver in front of his South Side home for running a stop sign.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

Anonymous

United States

#65 Dec 5, 2007
Stop calling people Monday Morning Quarterbacks! This is not a football game, it is people being shot dead for holding a cell phone! If officers are actually making that "split-second" decision, fine, but if instead, they've decided long ago that they aren't taking any chances and are going to keep themselves safe by making sure that they shoot first, then their judgment needs reviewing.
Nobody wants cops to get hurt, anyone who asserts that those who worry about cop-on-civilian shootings wants to hamstring cops is a jackass who is arguing in bad-faith. But guess what? Watching what the cops are doing is part of the job of an informed citizen! If the cops are afraid of a little transparency, then maybe they're doing something they shouldn't be. If a certain number of unneccesary shootings are unavoidable in a large sometimes violent city, so be it, everyone understands that, but are you disputing that that number should be kept as low as possible? Or are you arguing that no one could possibly have any ideas on how to lower that number except for cops?
Honest to God, when I hear people answer the problem of shooting people in the back or beating up girls because they won't serve you at a bar with "Why don't you try being a cop and see how you like it?" it honestly makes me think that I couldn't be any worse at it than someone who has completely given up on trying.
Action Jackson

Düsseldorf, Germany

#66 Dec 5, 2007
The Chicago Police Department is out of control!!

In the past 12 months alone, Chicago police offices have been involved in several videotaped beatings, police torture alleged burglary rings, even an alleged murder-for-hired plot, Not to say nothing of past problems that have bubbled to the surface from Tribune reporting.

It needs an Overhaul !! And all of the police officers here on the board claiming is the Media who is at fault, need to have their Heads examined.
Etf1001

United States

#67 Dec 5, 2007
Someone who knows wrote:
The Chicago Tribune, the Devil in Disguise. Shame on you and shame on these ignorant, T.V.watching juries that think everything works like CSI. Well I got news, it doesn't. These officers ought to be commended for the job they do and the filth they have to deal with. Why don't you Mr. Monday Morning Quarterback strap on the gun belt and pin the badge on, kiss your family goodbye not knowing if you'll ever return to see them and then have to make split second decisions to spare yours or another's life. Shame on you. Shame on all you judgmental fools. You are all the sheep being protected by the Sheepdog, the Police. The wolves are at your door and you are too busy trying to kill the sheepdog. If you honestly believe the garbage that is reported in this fable of a story,or the "witness" accounts or the lying lawyers that want to make you believe that the police carry drop guns or that fingerprints always tell the true tale then you are all truly misguided fools. May God protect all you urban soldiers from the criminals as well as the predators they call the press. There day will come too Officer, and when it does, hopefully the wolves will enjoy a nice hearty feast.
YOUR COMMENT IS TO STUPID TO EVEN FINISH READING - CONGRATS to the Tribune!- LET SOMEONE WHITE TELL THE STORY - Maybe then you will believe it!! Now are you starting to understand why OJ got off?
GOOFS

Chicago, IL

#68 Dec 5, 2007
No one is trying to score points, especially with you Terry. Another person who gets all of their information and knowledge from t.v.
Terry wrote:
Knowing several guys from the neighborhood who became cops I would never want to meet them in a dark alley.They were mean and prone to violence back then and they never changed They joined the force because they thought of themselves as macho guys. They figured now they could beat people up and get away with it especially minorities. They hate minorities. When they didn't get promoted they blamed minorities.And they don't have a very high regard for the public as a whole. So all you
defending them you not scoring any points. No, the only people they respect are those"on the job" every one else is a moron.
Annonymous

Chicago, IL

#69 Dec 5, 2007
I said Ha wrote:
<quoted text>
you mean, like this?
"Anonymous said...Dont complain if you are out there risking your livelihhod and get jammed....no one cares..what else will it take???
The animals in the ghetto will always be animals...so let them.
Its funny when senior media people get robbed they all come running to the CPD demanding special attention..and this has happened recently..they know the ghetto rats are vicious but would rather sell newspapers then tell the truth of how violent the citizens in this city really are!!
If you are proactive and get jammed....fu....what else will it take...we are on our own idiots. We have lost ...wave the liberal flag proudly...the good fight is over!!!! 12/05/2007 12:59:00 AM"
soooo, it's good to know there are no racist attitudes in the CPD. "ghetto animals.: nice. thanks for the link.
Way to pull the race card to get your point across. Let me guess - you have a black coworker that you like, so you can not be a racist. Give me a break. Racism exists everywhere, in every profession, in every city. There are racist and biased attitudes towards every race, religion, gender, etc. It is the world we live in. That being said, to single out the police department as if they are worse than anyone else is a joke. You are biased against the police department. ANd you feel justified in your opinoin b/c of their recent actions. Well, then, you are no better than the police blog commenter that you attack. You have based your opinoin on a whole group due to the actions of a few individuals. You are going to base your "ha" to this situation on the fact that someone who commented on a police blog referred to people who live in the ghetto as "animals". Get a real argument rather than the old stand by "racist"/safe argument. Finally, if you had the media watching your every move, waiting to put you on the cover of the paper b/c you overreacted to a situation, you bet your ass you would sit back and lay low. I do not blame the police for not wanting to be proactive in protecting you. Their head is on the chopping block. I hope this is all over soon before the criminals have more control than the police department.
In the know

Chicago, IL

#70 Dec 5, 2007
God bless our CPD, being shot in the back has nothing to do with determining if its justified or not. Everyone likes to criticze Police shootings when they absolutely know nothing, and I mean nothing about what goes on and how fast things happen in a deadly force scenario. We're talking 1-2 seconds. Time enough for an assailant to turn around who was just facing you by the time the trigger is pulled. This has been documented dozens of times nation wide by "deadly force experts" often times assailants are running from the Police and firing back at the officer over their shoulder. Perfect example on why this person would have bullet wounds in his back. I sure as hell would shoot him in the back. This meadia and many of the citizens in this city are just wrong on their assumptions of the Police. Unfortunately, its the media that starts the unfair/biased reporting that people "not in the know" take as fact.
Etf1001

United States

#71 Dec 5, 2007
Shawn wrote:
Also - all you people talking about how hard it is to be a cop. Well try being a young black man in the inner city. Put that uniform on for a few days. And see how friendly and great they are!!
The Tribune just had an article a few days ago stating that Whites are not imprisoned like blacks are and that Whites deal and use drugs like blacks and all other groups - but law officials don't seem to notice them.
Joe Kowalquiez

Chicago, IL

#72 Dec 5, 2007
"The union rep is a police officer from your district that represents your district at the union meetings. "

And do his duties supposed to include helping people get their story straight before the investigators can question them.....you know, instead of telling the truth?
DAVID

Evansville, IN

#73 Dec 5, 2007
Jake Wildenbrand wrote:
Yea, I feel safe in Chicago, sure commend the officers.
Right.
I hope they shoot you, and people you love.
What then?
<quoted text>
JAKE JUST ANOTHER DUMMY!!!! MY PEOPLE ARENT CRIMINALS DOG......
Terry

United States

#74 Dec 5, 2007
Maybe the police should have to wait until the bad guy's bullets actually hit them before opening fire? These sissy reporters that write this garbage would fill thier pants if they had to work in some of the areas that these brave men and women do. They have a mili-second to make a decision. If they are wrong, they end up on the M.E.'s slab. Here is a concept. When you are stopped by the police.... DON"T RUN. Then do everything they say.
DAVID

Evansville, IN

#75 Dec 5, 2007
Matthew wrote:
Time and time again, people defend police offices on the basis of them having a difficult and dangerous job, and having to make life-or-death decisions. Now, I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate the job that a vast number of police officers do. No one. That being said, a mistake that results in someone dying needs to be addressed properly. A good cop who made a mistake and kileed someone, still took away someones mother, father, sister, brother, and friend. If its justified, the truth will bear it out. Simple. If the perpetrator is guilty, the truth will bear it out as well. To see that the facts are that the law enforcement has not done its due diligence investigating ALL police shootings is shocking. It makes law enforcement and oxymoron. Good cops should want their profession unblemished by the few that make mistakes. Maybe they were mistakes, but covering up those mistakes is blatantly illegal, no matter who does it.
COME FOR A RIDE ALONG ANYTIME MATT AND SEE REAL LIFE.......
Matt

Lake In The Hills, IL

#76 Dec 5, 2007
I think overwhelming majority of the people slamming this article are missing the point. The point is not to indict police officers as incompetent or corrupt but to rather present how the system does not allow for discipline or corrective action be taken for the few times when officers have responded innapropriately. I think overall, police officers do a good job in a dangerour profession. I also think that we need to reform a system that is so intent on protecting fellow officers that it cannot root out troublesome officers or discipline officers for wrongfully discharging their weapon resulting in injury or death. The state's attorney and the city pols have a stake in this as well, and they need to step up as well to enact messures to correct the problems outlined in the article. It is too bad that the mistakes of a few taint the bravery of the many. Maybe if the good officers were more willing to acknowledge the problems we could work to implement real solutions.

“Tah Dah!”

Since: Nov 07

Chicago

#77 Dec 5, 2007
Clean Hands wrote:
The police in Chicago is equally bad compared to say Mexican police. Corrupt and incompetent. Their wrongdoing keeps unpunished. Somehow this fits in the pattern of corrupted local Chicago and Illinois state goverment and politics. Time for "Operation Clean Hands" executed for a fully 100%.
You show your ignornace even comparing the two.
One sided article

Roselle, IL

#78 Dec 5, 2007
Its interesting that your article is based on the information provided by LOVEY and LOVEY, the idiot Lawyers that make a living out of suing the POlice and the City. f you want to have a FAIR article, why dont YOU break down EACH shootings and the facts, rather than just the ones you choose to fit your story so it sounds bias. You make me sick with your liberal, bias reporting, and the Tribune should be ashamedfor printing such a one sided article. Thats not journalism, thats someones opinion.
Say no to tacos

Chicago, IL

#79 Dec 5, 2007
Those of you writing in favor of the police and law and order, should applaud the Tribune's reporting.
The CPD has gotten a free ride for far to long and the questioning of how they handle shootings, corruption, and brutality is justified. If you stop your hero worship and grow-up, you would realize that the police operate with the same gang mentality as Chicago's street gangs.

The Federal government needs to deputize the CPD with immigration enforcement powers, so they begin arresting and deporting the thousands of law-breaking illegals roaming Chicago's streets.
Police Work Being Halted

Chicago, IL

#80 Dec 5, 2007
I personally know MANY honest, hard working police officers who are refusing to do any police work anymore. This is fast becoming the survival technique for law enforcement in Chicago. Officers are sick of the WORST criminal element of the city being supported by the fake reverends and political hacks not to mention the biased liberal media.
Police Officers WILL follow all department guidelines and laws however FORGET about doing any aggressive work. Going to assignments with lights and sirens blaring at 20 mph so the offenders know they are coming and briskly flee the scene is fast becoming the norm for both seasoned and young Chicago Police officers alike. What can Chicago Police Command or the new Independent Police Review Authority do about this? NOTHING! All rules and laws are followed.
If you are standing in the street and are waiving down a police car because your mother just had a heart attack or someone is breaking in your back door, don’t be flabbergasted when the officer is “looking in the other direction” because he “thought he saw something on the other side of the street” when he really just didn’t want to get involved with your problem which he is afraid will end his career. Once again, what can Command staff or the new IPRA do about this? NOTHING! All directives and laws are followed to “the T.”
If anyone in Chicago has thought hard about purchasing a gun for self protection, NOW just may be the time to do so. Your lives just may depend on it. I highly doubt the next time you hear a burglar in your home at 3 a.m. the so called “reverends” that are monetarily supported by gang members or a liberal member of the media who lives in Highwood Illinois will come to save your life.
One sided article

Roselle, IL

#81 Dec 5, 2007
Its interesting that your article is based on the information provided by LOVEY and LOVEY, the idiot Lawyers that make a living out of suing the POlice and the City. f you want to have a FAIR article, why dont YOU break down EACH shootings and the facts, rather than just the ones you choose to fit your story so it sounds bias. You make me sick with your liberal, bias reporting, and the Tribune should be ashamedfor printing such a one sided article. Thats not journalism, thats someones opinion.
PGM

Southfield, MI

#82 Dec 5, 2007
WOW wrote:
Because civilians don't have a clue of what they are talking about when it comes to a police involved shooting, or any police incident for that matter. They wouldn't know what they were talking about when it comes to handling a shop lifter. There is procedure for everything. Thats like having someone who has never done your job before, whether accounting, doctor, teacher, etc,etc, come in and start giving oponions. Opinions are fine, but when it's all said and done, unless you've actually done the kind of job you're critiquing you aren't going to fully understand. <quoted text>
No, most of the general public does not know what goes on during a police investigation of a fatal shooting but we do have common sense. So my thoughts are: 1) the Tribune is trying to inform the public but complete records are not being released. So the story may appear slanted but the parties involved from the CPD side choose not to speak. 2) Officers have to make a split second decision weather to use lethal force but the end result is >99% of the investigations say yes and clear the officer. That just doesn't add up. I am just thankful I am not a minority and live within the city of Chicago. Maybe it is only 1% of the CPD that is rotten but how is a citizen to know? At that point you just don't give an officier your trust and that is a very sad admission. The public doesn't trust it's own police force.
Mmm

Fort Wayne, IN

#83 Dec 5, 2007
WTF wrote:
Another brain surgeon writing on this post. First of all it wasn't the "cops" that beat up a helpless bartender. It was one stupid fat ass off duty drunk cop. This situation also does not warrant the title "crooked cop." There is nothing crooked about what he did. He is a dumb drunk cop who is an idiot and deserves what he gets, but he's not crooked. "Police State", what the hell is that? Step away from the t.v. and go look for a job. <quoted text>
Uh, WTF? First off, if the bartender had been a black or hispanic woman, people would be talking about why she had it coming, because that's all I see on boards like this. It's sickening.

Second, the bartender beating case WAS about corruption because after the officer beat her, HIS FRIENDS came in threatening to arrest and harass her if she pressed charges.

That sounds like organized corruption to me. The only reason the story ever came to light and the asshole cop was disciplined was because there was evidence on tape. Period.
One sided article

Roselle, IL

#84 Dec 5, 2007
I think ALLL the Police officers should not do anything except the BARE minimum, the person that hands out the radios gets paid the same as the aggressive officer. its not worth it, don t do anything except collect your salaries. Let some of these liberals come in and do a better job. Kepp watching CSI retards.

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