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41 - 60 of 68 Comments Last updated Dec 12, 2012

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#41
Dec 10, 2012
 
Toj wrote:
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I'm not trying to vilify marijuana use. I, too, have friends who have done well and smoke. That's not to say no one has an addiction to marijuana.
There are food addictions and sex addictions, unless you don't think those things are real.
Food addictions have a whole host of negative consequences, Toj. Sex addictions do too. You can catch diseases. The act of infidelity, which goes to the heart of most relationships, can ruin relationships as well. They also naturally lead to a life of deception and lies, especially with those you should be most open with.

There is no substantial evidence that smoking is harmful. For sure there are components in it that can cause cancer, but there are other components that prevent cancer. In fact, I remember reading a few years ago about a study that mentioned for the longest time, scientists couldn't figure out why even long time smokers didn't show an increase in lung cancer, given that it is known to contain certain carcinogens. It turns out the anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory properties are so much more powerful. It also temporarily lowers blood pressure. Also, if you vaporize it, you donít even ingest all the harmful components.

As I said, to me an addiction is something that you have to do, regardless of whether you actually want to do it. This need to do something even if you donít want to is often times brought on by physical withdrawal symptoms, i.e. you feel miserable if you arenít under the influence.

In contrast, just because someone chooses to do something every day, doesnít mean if they wanted to, they couldnít choose not to. I watch tv a lot of days, at least for a little bit. Do I have to watch it; no? I choose to watch it, because I enjoy it, but I could choose not to. Am I addicted to tv? I drink coffee most days too, but when I donít, I donít miss it or have withdrawals. Sometimes I donít have it Ďcause I got up late or donít feel like making. I donít really miss a beat. Yet, I would say I probably have coffee 6 days a week on average.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>It doesn't even make sense to me what all of you are saying -- that you know people who work everyday and who don't have a problem, therefore no one has a problem and you're only trying to vilify marijuana if you say people have addictions to marijuana.
Do I have the wrap up right?
What problem? Iíve said it a million times. The folks who are losers and who smoke marijuana would be losers (which is what the problem is) even if they did not smoke it (which is not what the problem is). The problem isnít marijuana. Itís them and their character or personality. Isnít that easy enough to understand?

Even if no one smoked marijuana, weíd still have folks who have no friends and canít hold down a job. As it stands now, some of these same folks happen to smoke marijuana, but to blame the fact that they have no job and canít hold down a job on marijuana is not something I agree with.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#43
Dec 10, 2012
 
Kuuipo wrote:
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The same is true for the people I know. The burnouts generally used a lot of alcohol or harder drugs.
I agree that pot is a far less harmful substance than alcohol. We should definitely not be arresting people for using marijuana. Actually, I think legalizing all drugs and managing drug addicts as they do in England might not be a bad idea.
Many folks are advocating what you suggest, and I agree. The movement is gaining steam and it is just a matter of time.

Many ex-Presidents are on board and have admitted they made a mistake by not being courageous enough to advocate changing our laws. Here is an interview with Richard Branson discussing it (I love that guy ... very intelligent):

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2012/1...

We are not only wasting large sums of money that could be used more beneficially for society, but we are wasting people's lives, because when you go to prison, you are only likely to come out a worst criminal. You've made new criminal friends and now you've got that on your record, which makes it hard to get a job and rejoin society in a productive manner. We have ruined so many people's lives over foolish policies.

Keeping things illegal just breeds crime too. It was no different than during prohibition.

Since: Jan 10

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#45
Dec 10, 2012
 
Nixon started the "war on drugs" and funneled the money into treatment, prevention, and education.

Then Reagan took over and put the money into law enforcement and incarceration.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#46
Dec 10, 2012
 
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
Nixon started the "war on drugs" and funneled the money into treatment, prevention, and education.
Then Reagan took over and put the money into law enforcement and incarceration.
This is true. Maybe Obama will have the courage to try to change things since he doesn't have to worry about re-election.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Tacoma, WA

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#47
Dec 10, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

I don't smoke pot 'cause I just don't care for it in general. I am however sitting here looking at this bag I bought today, legally, just because I could.:) Gonna give it to Chris' GF for Christmas. <shrug> In the mean time, I am going to possess it...again...just because I can.

Since: Feb 08

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#48
Dec 10, 2012
 
Saluki Rod wrote:
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Thank gawd, someone is the voice of sanity.
The uber-conservatives rail against weed in the exact same way Carrie Nation carried on about alcohol in the pre-prohibition days.
I haven't imbibed in years, but if I ever need medical marijuana you can bet I'll not hesitate.(or if I ever get back to Amsterdam!)
It is perfectly legal in Washington State now.
I've been quite happy with the responses from the authorities about it to the media.
What should I do if I want to come to WA to get high?
LEO- Have a designated driver, use public transport, or stay over until you're sober .
What about those selling it? What will you do if you find someone has it? Are you going to investigate and bust the dealers?
LEO- If an adult is in possession of a legal amount we have no interest in where they got it, that's their business. We WILL continue to investigate and prosecute anyone who is supplying it to minors.
Kuuipo

Monterey, CA

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#49
Dec 10, 2012
 
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Many folks are advocating what you suggest, and I agree. The movement is gaining steam and it is just a matter of time.
Many ex-Presidents are on board and have admitted they made a mistake by not being courageous enough to advocate changing our laws. Here is an interview with Richard Branson discussing it (I love that guy ... very intelligent):
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2012/1...
We are not only wasting large sums of money that could be used more beneficially for society, but we are wasting people's lives, because when you go to prison, you are only likely to come out a worst criminal. You've made new criminal friends and now you've got that on your record, which makes it hard to get a job and rejoin society in a productive manner. We have ruined so many people's lives over foolish policies.
Keeping things illegal just breeds crime too. It was no different than during prohibition.
When people first started advocating for this idea, I reacted like many people do, but after some consideration, I think it makes much better sense than continuing to fight a losing battle with the drug cartels. If you remove the criminal element from drug trafficking, the drug cartels cease to exist. The money that is being spent on law enforcement can be put into anti-drug education and treatment programs for addicts. Addicts will be able to get drugs inexpensively, so they won't be breaking into your house to get money to buy drugs. The argument for keeping the status quo has been if drugs are legalized, then more people will use drugs. I don't think so. People get talked into using drugs now because there are people on the street trying to make money by selling illegal drugs. Also, a lot of people won't try drugs, legal or not. Look at what we have done to discourage people from smoking despite the pushback from the tobacco companies. We've made tremendous progress. And I totally agree with you about this: Putting addicts in prison with criminals is just going to ruin their lives. They will have little chance of cleaning up and living a decent life when they get out. Addicts belong in treatment centers, not prisons.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#50
Dec 10, 2012
 
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
When people first started advocating for this idea, I reacted like many people do, but after some consideration, I think it makes much better sense than continuing to fight a losing battle with the drug cartels. If you remove the criminal element from drug trafficking, the drug cartels cease to exist. The money that is being spent on law enforcement can be put into anti-drug education and treatment programs for addicts. Addicts will be able to get drugs inexpensively, so they won't be breaking into your house to get money to buy drugs. The argument for keeping the status quo has been if drugs are legalized, then more people will use drugs. I don't think so. People get talked into using drugs now because there are people on the street trying to make money by selling illegal drugs. Also, a lot of people won't try drugs, legal or not. Look at what we have done to discourage people from smoking despite the pushback from the tobacco companies. We've made tremendous progress. And I totally agree with you about this: Putting addicts in prison with criminals is just going to ruin their lives. They will have little chance of cleaning up and living a decent life when they get out. Addicts belong in treatment centers, not prisons.
The people who sell the drugs generally don't have other employment opportunities or job skills. As a practical matter, if you legalize their function, what role will they take on?

When prohibition ended, what happened to the bootleggers and rum-runners?

The original Freakonomics book had a chapter Why do Drug Dealers Still Live with Their Mothers? The big guys make money. The street sellers do not- assumoing a whack a mole process, where will those guys pop up next ( numbers runners were put out of business by state lotteries)

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

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#51
Dec 10, 2012
 
Don't be paranoid Pellen. It's just a little weed.
The times I've seen it at work it was an incidental finding. I'd tell you about it, but there's not much to say.....

One guy was drunk and he was in some sort of automobile wreck and they found it in his pocket.
He was a trauma patient and the first thing they do with them when they get to the hospital is cut off all their clothes.
Yep. They're buck naked within seconds.
It was small baggie and one of the nurses made a real big stink about it. She was absolutely disgusted and she made that perfectly clear. It's probably why I remember it so well like it was yesterday.
But he was not there because he was high one pot.
He was there because he was wasted on alcohol.

Since: Jan 10

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#52
Dec 10, 2012
 
In the appalachians, pot growers have pot plants growing all over public/government land. They string fishing line up between trees such that the string is at head level. Then they attach fishhooks so they'll hit DEA agents in the eyes.

They string fishing line through the rattles of rattlesnakes, then give the snaked a certain amount of length, like 15-20 feet, essentially serving as a guard dog for plants inthe area.

That's just crazy. Make it legal, then they can grow it on their own land and DEA agents can focus on more serious matters... like drugs eing supplied to minors.
Kuuipo

Monterey, CA

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#53
Dec 10, 2012
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
The people who sell the drugs generally don't have other employment opportunities or job skills. As a practical matter, if you legalize their function, what role will they take on?
When prohibition ended, what happened to the bootleggers and rum-runners?
The original Freakonomics book had a chapter Why do Drug Dealers Still Live with Their Mothers? The big guys make money. The street sellers do not- assumoing a whack a mole process, where will those guys pop up next ( numbers runners were put out of business by state lotteries)
They will have to use their marketing skills to find some legitimate employment. Maybe used car sales or cashier at the liquor store.

Since: Jan 10

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#54
Dec 10, 2012
 
Hmmm. Make drugs legal, then I bet property theft will skyrocket. There aren't jobs in Detroit, South L.A., elsewhere. People will have to do SOMETHING for cash.
pde

Gilberts, IL

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#55
Dec 10, 2012
 
Mimi Seattle wrote:
I don't smoke pot 'cause I just don't care for it in general. I am however sitting here looking at this bag I bought today, legally, just because I could.:) Gonna give it to Chris' GF for Christmas. <shrug> In the mean time, I am going to possess it...again...just because I can.
I haven't the faintest desire to smoke pot, because I have enough lung issues that I don't have the faintest desire to smoke ANYTHING. Anything that could possibly harm my lung capacity is not cool for me to do personally.

You all have fun with it though. I'll sit here and drink my wine instead.

Since: Jan 10

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#56
Dec 11, 2012
 
pde wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't the faintest desire to smoke pot, because I have enough lung issues that I don't have the faintest desire to smoke ANYTHING. Anything that could possibly harm my lung capacity is not cool for me to do personally.
You all have fun with it though. I'll sit here and drink my wine instead.
I'll pour you a glass!:)

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#57
Dec 11, 2012
 
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
When people first started advocating for this idea, I reacted like many people do, but after some consideration, I think it makes much better sense than continuing to fight a losing battle with the drug cartels. If you remove the criminal element from drug trafficking, the drug cartels cease to exist. The money that is being spent on law enforcement can be put into anti-drug education and treatment programs for addicts. Addicts will be able to get drugs inexpensively, so they won't be breaking into your house to get money to buy drugs. The argument for keeping the status quo has been if drugs are legalized, then more people will use drugs. I don't think so. People get talked into using drugs now because there are people on the street trying to make money by selling illegal drugs. Also, a lot of people won't try drugs, legal or not. Look at what we have done to discourage people from smoking despite the pushback from the tobacco companies. We've made tremendous progress. And I totally agree with you about this: Putting addicts in prison with criminals is just going to ruin their lives. They will have little chance of cleaning up and living a decent life when they get out. Addicts belong in treatment centers, not prisons.
ITA

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#58
Dec 11, 2012
 
PEllen wrote:
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The people who sell the drugs generally don't have other employment opportunities or job skills. As a practical matter, if you legalize their function, what role will they take on?
When prohibition ended, what happened to the bootleggers and rum-runners?
The original Freakonomics book had a chapter Why do Drug Dealers Still Live with Their Mothers? The big guys make money. The street sellers do not- assumoing a whack a mole process, where will those guys pop up next ( numbers runners were put out of business by state lotteries)
When you look at the crime it breeds, the cost of imprisonment, the inability of police to tackle other crimes, the costs of time and money on the justice system, lost potential tax revenue, lost economic stimulus cause a lot of that money spent on it ends up going across the border (where it fuels violence and instability), that is the least of our problem.

Legalizing, at least smoke, essentially removes the whole "gate way drug" argument that a lot of folks make. It's only a gate way drug now because the same guy selling it is often times selling other drugs. If you went down to the grocery store to buy it, like you do for a pack of cigs or alcohol, the cashier isn't going to be trying to push harder drugs on you.

Since: Mar 09

United States

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#59
Dec 11, 2012
 
Mimi Seattle wrote:
I don't smoke pot 'cause I just don't care for it in general. I am however sitting here looking at this bag I bought today, legally, just because I could.:) Gonna give it to Chris' GF for Christmas. <shrug> In the mean time, I am going to possess it...again...just because I can.
This struck me as awesomely funny.
:)

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#60
Dec 11, 2012
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
The people who sell the drugs generally don't have other employment opportunities or job skills. As a practical matter, if you legalize their function, what role will they take on?
Who cares? Guess they'll have to get real jobs.

Since: Jan 10

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#61
Dec 11, 2012
 
edogxxx wrote:
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Who cares? Guess they'll have to get real jobs.
There often AREN'T "real jobs." Familiar with south central L.A.? Detroit? Baltimore?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#62
Dec 11, 2012
 
Are you two actually suggesting we keep pot illegal so the street dealers can have a "job"?

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