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61 - 80 of 105 Comments Last updated Jun 14, 2013

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#61
Jun 12, 2013
 
Violence and age aside, what is the difference between rape and consensual sex? I would think the only diff would be lack of concent, which is hard to prove no?
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
If a man is truly falsely accused of rape, then there will not be enough evidence to convict him of rape. So then it's he-said, she-said. And why is that the woman has "loose morals" but the man doesn't? Why is the woman considered "easy and ready" but not the man? Here's my opinion: It is rarely a good idea to have sex with someone that you don't know very well.

Since: May 13

Monterey, CA

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#62
Jun 12, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
Violence and age aside, what is the difference between rape and consensual sex? I would think the only diff would be lack of concent, which is hard to prove no?
<quoted text>
Rape is forced. Rape is violent. There will be bruises, cuts, and blood. Witnesses will have heard screams. If I were on a jury trying to decide if the plaintiff had committed rape, I would expect to hear testimony from a doctor stating that there were the aforementioned bruises, cuts, and bleeding. In good conscience, I could not agree to convict on he-said, she-said testimony.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#63
Jun 12, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

I think you are totally wrong. Rape need not be violent.
having sex with a chick who is passed out or incoherent is rape, and there will be no bruises, cuts,blood or screaming.

having sex with a girl who starts off receptive, but later pleads for it to stop, but goes along with it, either out of fear or shame is also rape, and again none of the things you mention will be present.
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
Rape is forced. Rape is violent. There will be bruises, cuts, and blood. Witnesses will have heard screams. If I were on a jury trying to decide if the plaintiff had committed rape, I would expect to hear testimony from a doctor stating that there were the aforementioned bruises, cuts, and bleeding. In good conscience, I could not agree to convict on he-said, she-said testimony.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#64
Jun 12, 2013
 
Kuuipo wrote:
If a man is truly falsely accused of rape, then there will not be enough evidence to convict him of rape.
So then it's he-said, she-said.
Really? So no innocent men ever go to jail for a crime they did not commit? And even if he is acquitted, is his life ever the same? People will always wonder if he got away with a crime. And how many accused rapists awaiting trial have employers holding their job in case they don't get convicted? And of course no one's going to reimburse him for his legal fees. So I will not entertain this idea that being falsely accused of rape is not a hige deal.
Kuuipo wrote:
And why is that the woman has "loose morals" but the man doesn't? Why is the woman considered "easy and ready" but not the man?
Ask Jess. That was her premise. If a man is not more selective and just has sex with anyone, then he made his bed, he's partially to blame for not opting out since she was of such loose morals it should have been forseeable that she'd falsely accuse him of rape (Feel free to go back and get her quote, but that's the gist of what I got out of it).
Kuuipo wrote:
Here's my opinion: It is rarely a good idea to have sex with someone that you don't know very well.
Good idea or not, does that mean that it should be forseeable that a rape accusation could be forthcoming and therefore too bad for you if it happens? Your fault for hopping in the sack so fast?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#65
Jun 12, 2013
 
Kuuipo wrote:
If a man is truly falsely accused of rape, then there will not be enough evidence to convict him of rape.
Maybe. Maybe not. Think innocent men never get sentenced to prison? And even if he gets off, his reputation is tarnished anyway.
Kuuipo wrote:
And why is that the woman has "loose morals" but the man doesn't? Why is the woman considered "easy and ready" but not the man?
Who made such an argument?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#66
Jun 12, 2013
 
Kuuipo wrote:
There will be bruises, cuts, and blood. Witnesses will have heard screams.
Wrong on all counts.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#67
Jun 12, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
I think you are totally wrong. Rape need not be violent.
having sex with a chick who is passed out or incoherent is rape, and there will be no bruises, cuts,blood or screaming.
having sex with a girl who starts off receptive, but later pleads for it to stop, but goes along with it, either out of fear or shame is also rape, and again none of the things you mention will be present.
<quoted text>
I agree with most of this except for the shame part, and that is exactly why I presented the idea that the BF might not have thought she "really" got raped. We had this discussion once before and the lines were drawn. Legitimate fear for your safety? Rape.

Shame? Hell no. Too f'n bad if you got low self esteem. Not rape.

If the BF in the letter listened to her account of the rape and there was no force, no violence, no unconsciousness, and she was calling it rape, I'd have reservations about having sex with her any further.

Since: May 13

Monterey, CA

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#68
Jun 12, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? So no innocent men ever go to jail for a crime they did not commit? And even if he is acquitted, is his life ever the same? People will always wonder if he got away with a crime. And how many accused rapists awaiting trial have employers holding their job in case they don't get convicted? And of course no one's going to reimburse him for his legal fees. So I will not entertain this idea that being falsely accused of rape is not a hige deal.
<quoted text>
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Innocent people do go to jail from time to time. However, IMHO, there are far more guilty people who don't get convicted than innocent people that get convicted.

Being falsely accused of rape would indeed be a big deal, a very big deal. However if a man was selective enough about his partner(s), he would be far less likely to find himself in that position, IMHO.
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Ask Jess. That was her premise. If a man is not more selective and just has sex with anyone, then he made his bed, he's partially to blame for not opting out since she was of such loose morals it should have been forseeable that she'd falsely accuse him of rape (Feel free to go back and get her quote, but that's the gist of what I got out of it).
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Let me frame this for you.
Scenario 1: Let's say a man has been seeing a woman for six weeks. In that time frame, they have gone out about three times a week. They've gone to the movies, had dinner, seen some live music, spent a lot of time together getting to know each other. She's met his friends, he's met her friends. After 6 weeks, their relationship becomes sexual. What are the chances that this woman will accuse him of rape? What are the chances that a jury would convict him of rape?
Scenario 2: A man goes to a bar, meets a woman for the first time and buys her 3-4 drinks. Then he drives her home and they have sex. Do you think this man has a greater chance of being accused of rape?
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Good idea or not, does that mean that it should be forseeable that a rape accusation could be forthcoming and therefore too bad for you if it happens? Your fault for hopping in the sack so fast?
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No, I think all people should act with integrity and not make false accusations of very serious crimes.

Since: May 13

Monterey, CA

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#69
Jun 12, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
I think you are totally wrong. Rape need not be violent.
having sex with a chick who is passed out or incoherent is rape, and there will be no bruises, cuts,blood or screaming.
having sex with a girl who starts off receptive, but later pleads for it to stop, but goes along with it, either out of fear or shame is also rape, and again none of the things you mention will be present.
<quoted text>
I imagine that there would be internal injuries caused by sex with a passed out or incoherent woman. And if a woman pleads for a man to stop at any point, he would be wise to stop.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#70
Jun 12, 2013
 
Kuuipo wrote:
Being falsely accused of rape would indeed be a big deal, a very big deal. However if a man was selective enough about his partner(s), he would be far less likely to find himself in that position, IMHO.
Then you must agree that if a woman was selective enough about the men she dated and associated with, she would be less likely to find herself a victim of date rape(isn't that the most prevalent kind?)
Kuuipo wrote:
Let me frame this for you.
Scenario 1: Let's say a man has been seeing a woman for six weeks. In that time frame, they have gone out about three times a week. They've gone to the movies, had dinner, seen some live music, spent a lot of time together getting to know each other. She's met his friends, he's met her friends. After 6 weeks, their relationship becomes sexual. What are the chances that this woman will accuse him of rape? What are the chances that a jury would convict him of rape?
Scenario 2: A man goes to a bar, meets a woman for the first time and buys her 3-4 drinks. Then he drives her home and they have sex. Do you think this man has a greater chance of being accused of rape?
So anyone having sex sooner is asking for an accusation of rape and at fault? Sorry if a great number of people don't wait as long as you prescribe, but that does not mean they are any more at fault for their predicament than a woman who wears skimpy clothes, gets drunk, and starts grinding on every drunk she bumps into on the dance floor.

Bottom line, you have double standard. Guy needs to abstain or weeks and start a relationship with someone before having sex to lessen the likelihood of a rape accusation and conviction, but a woman can act and dress however she wishes and anything that happens to her is all on the rapist and not in any way her doing.
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

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#71
Jun 12, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> Then you must agree that if a woman was selective enough about the men she dated and associated with, she would be less likely to find herself a victim of date rape(isn't that the most prevalent kind?)
<quoted text>
So anyone having sex sooner is asking for an accusation of rape and at fault? Sorry if a great number of people don't wait as long as you prescribe, but that does not mean they are any more at fault for their predicament than a woman who wears skimpy clothes, gets drunk, and starts grinding on every drunk she bumps into on the dance floor.
Bottom line, you have double standard. Guy needs to abstain or weeks and start a relationship with someone before having sex to lessen the likelihood of a rape accusation and conviction, but a woman can act and dress however she wishes and anything that happens to her is all on the rapist and not in any way her doing.
Yes, I totally agree that a woman should be selective about the men she chooses to go out with.

I totally disagree that a woman's choice of clothing has anything to do with rape of any kind. Normal men do not accost women regardless of what they are wearing.

*I* have a double standard??? I'm the one arguing AGAINST double standards!!! What I said was that it in my opinion it is unwise to sleep with someone whom you don't know very well. That goes for men or women. And I never "prescribed" anything. I merely gave you 2 scenarios to consider.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#72
Jun 12, 2013
 
Let me approach the question from a different angle.

What do you think a woman hoping to convey or achieve by wearing tight, see-through or skimpy clothing?

Why choose that outfit as opposed to something from say, Talbott's or Ann Taylor ( guys- conservative, opaque etc)?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#73
Jun 12, 2013
 
Kuuipo wrote:

I totally disagree that a woman's choice of clothing has anything to do with rape of any kind. Normal men do not accost women regardless of what they are wearing.
I totally disagree that...how soon a man can get a woman into bed has anything to do with being accused of rape. Normal women do not falsely accuse men of rape regardless of how quickly they jumped into the sack.
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

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#74
Jun 12, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
Let me approach the question from a different angle.
What do you think a woman hoping to convey or achieve by wearing tight, see-through or skimpy clothing?
Why choose that outfit as opposed to something from say, Talbott's or Ann Taylor ( guys- conservative, opaque etc)?
I visit Hawai`i on a fairly regular basis. The climate there is tropical. Women typically dress in shorts, halter tops, bikinis with pareo (sarong) skirts, etc., clothing that could be considered "skimpy". They might be dressing for the weather. If going to a club and dancing, they might be dressing for the level of activity.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#75
Jun 12, 2013
 
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
I visit Hawai`i on a fairly regular basis. The climate there is tropical. Women typically dress in shorts, halter tops, bikinis with pareo (sarong) skirts, etc., clothing that could be considered "skimpy". They might be dressing for the weather. If going to a club and dancing, they might be dressing for the level of activity.
The point is the context. A hip slung pareo and bikini top on the beach is seen in the context of a arm weather activity that involves exposure to the sun. A hip slung pareo and bikini top at 1:00 am at a club conveys a very different message because of teh context

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#76
Jun 12, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
Let me approach the question from a different angle.
What do you think a woman hoping to convey or achieve by wearing tight, see-through or skimpy clothing?
Why choose that outfit as opposed to something from say, Talbott's or Ann Taylor ( guys- conservative, opaque etc)?
Therein lies the debate. A woman shows up to a bar in fishnet overalls, gets drunk, and gets into a cab with some guy. The next day she wakes up in a dumpster with one sock missing and her shirt on backwards.
Was she raped?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#77
Jun 12, 2013
 
poor attempt.
what you imagine is also the same results of a woman who is dry during intercourse. Do you know what injuries are sustained? Do you really not see the hyprocicy your standing upon?

And I never said that a woman pleas for a male to stop but are ignored are anything less than rape, so I dont see your point at all.

Sorry but I wish you would just acknowledge that you miss-spoke
and you did not fully quantify your argument.

your attempt to stand on semantics is futile.
Kuuipo wrote:
<quoted text>
I imagine that there would be internal injuries caused by sex with a passed out or incoherent woman. And if a woman pleads for a man to stop at any point, he would be wise to stop.
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

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#78
Jun 13, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
poor attempt.
what you imagine is also the same results of a woman who is dry during intercourse. Do you know what injuries are sustained? Do you really not see the hyprocicy your standing upon?
And I never said that a woman pleas for a male to stop but are ignored are anything less than rape, so I dont see your point at all.
Sorry but I wish you would just acknowledge that you miss-spoke
and you did not fully quantify your argument.
your attempt to stand on semantics is futile.
<quoted text>
No, sorry, I am not backing down on anything that I said.
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

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#79
Jun 13, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Therein lies the debate. A woman shows up to a bar in fishnet overalls, gets drunk, and gets into a cab with some guy. The next day she wakes up in a dumpster with one sock missing and her shirt on backwards.
Was she raped?
Lots of information missing, but I'll bite. I got called for jury duty this week but missed my opportunity to serve. But let's assume that I am on a jury and it's a rape trial. It is my and 11 other people's responsibility to decide this case beyond a REASONABLE doubt. So bring on the evidence. If there's drinking involved and either or both of the parties has trouble recalling the details of what happened, then my vote is leaning heavily toward Not Guilty. However, if there are pictures of big black bruises on the woman's wrist and ankles, a doctor's report of internal abrasions and bleeding, and the defendant's DNA in the woman, I'm leaning toward Guilty. What she was wearing is completely irrelevant. And IMHO, a man should know if a woman is willing or not. If he is at all unsure, he can ASK.
Kuuipo

Salinas, CA

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#80
Jun 13, 2013
 
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
I totally disagree that...how soon a man can get a woman into bed has anything to do with being accused of rape. Normal women do not falsely accuse men of rape regardless of how quickly they jumped into the sack.
Normal men do not force themselves on women.

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