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Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81 Oct 24, 2012
Hey, I'm all for the full integration of the intellectually disabled into mainstream society. Completely. We're all better for it.

But I"m AGAINST the integration of poorly behaving adults into society. They can stay home. Regardless of their IQ.

“I'm freezing.”

Since: May 11

Honolulu, HI.

#82 Oct 25, 2012
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>BS. They can be disciplined, and they should, from as early an age as other children. Their mental/emotional age.
The parents put themselves on that island, they need to put some work in getting off it. I'll just bet that any time anyone said anything about his behaviour when it WAS controllable and he was small, it was ignored, or they spouted off the same crap as above.
Nope. Not buying it. I'm there, and I see how well behaved adults with DS and other cognitive disabilities can be.
I've seen adult kids and parents like those the LW describes, too, and they're usually there because they just couldn't bear to tell little Johnny "no", because "he has so many other problems".
Yeah, the biggest being parents who won't parent.
What was that? Are you hedging your bets by taking 2 different sides at the same time, so that you can hide behind one or the other?
They can't be disciplined because they don't understand the consequences of their actions. Even the law says so.

“I'm freezing.”

Since: May 11

Honolulu, HI.

#83 Oct 25, 2012
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>Tell them that at the very first disruption, they're to take him home.
Really, it's that easy.
If they get huffy, tell them "I'm sorry, but you're the ones who have not socialized him, so you get to take him home now".
I really hate to be in the same camp as the dog, but even he has it right with this one.
My young man has been often taken home early simply because he needs some looking after, mainly because of his lack of communication skills. He's well behaved, but can't speak more than a half dozen words and it hasn't hurt him to miss a few receptions.
Of course, he has his own parties and dances he gets to attend, because his parents have him enrolled in a program that organizes such things for adults with developmental disabilities. Their son might benefit from such things, if he's allowed to attend. They expect the clients to behave well there, and if they're always throwing tantrums or refuse to go along with the rules, they must look for another program or just stay home with the parents.
I see...

So you are saying it would be better for him to be with "his own kind" rather than be at a function with "normal" people including his own family?
Why stop there? Just build them their own city and you can ship them off so that they won't be a burden to "civilized" people.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#84 Oct 25, 2012
Maverick 808 wrote:
<quoted text>I see...
So you are saying it would be better for him to be with "his own kind" rather than be at a function with "normal" people including his own family?
Why stop there? Just build them their own city and you can ship them off so that they won't be a burden to "civilized" people.
I didn't get that from Moon's post. I was thinking those parties with other disabled kids probably made him feel more normal and/or that he had kindred spirits. He also went to the parties everyone was invited to. I would say that would make someone more well rounded, actually.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#85 Oct 25, 2012
Maverick is not getting it. Moon obviously has no issue with developmentally disabled adults -- she has cared for them in her home. But she seems to have little patience for rude, obnoxious behavior, regardless of the person's intellect.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#86 Oct 25, 2012
Maverick 808 wrote:
<quoted text>What was that? Are you hedging your bets by taking 2 different sides at the same time, so that you can hide behind one or the other?
They can't be disciplined because they don't understand the consequences of their actions. Even the law says so.
It seems you have a different definition of the word "discipline" than I use. Discipline does not mean physical violence. At least not in my world, but maybe in yours it does. The law does NOT say you cannot discipline children or adults with Down's Syndrome. You're misinformed.
You also seem to be reading a lot of shyte into my posts that isn't there.
What first hand knowledge and experience do YOU have with this? Mine is going back for almost 40 years all told.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#87 Oct 25, 2012
I know Moon well enough that I'd trust her to take of any child, including special needs children.

“I'm freezing.”

Since: May 11

Honolulu, HI.

#88 Oct 25, 2012
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't get that from Moon's post. I was thinking those parties with other disabled kids probably made him feel more normal and/or that he had kindred spirits. He also went to the parties everyone was invited to. I would say that would make someone more well rounded, actually.
Again, we go back to him being separated from the rest of the normal world. It would be nice for him until reality sets in.

“I'm freezing.”

Since: May 11

Honolulu, HI.

#89 Oct 25, 2012
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>It seems you have a different definition of the word "discipline" than I use. Discipline does not mean physical violence. At least not in my world, but maybe in yours it does. The law does NOT say you cannot discipline children or adults with Down's Syndrome. You're misinformed.
You also seem to be reading a lot of shyte into my posts that isn't there.
What first hand knowledge and experience do YOU have with this? Mine is going back for almost 40 years all told.
You should be more specific when using the word "discipline" such as "teach discipline" which would indicate teaching restraint or common sense.
Show me one statute either State or Federal that says that a mentally incompentant person can be held liable for what they do or have done.
You've been doing what you do for 40 years and you still want to separate them from normal society?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#90 Oct 25, 2012
Oh my GOD, Maverick, give it up. You're totally twisting Moon's words and saying things she never said. KNock it off. It's making you look like an ass.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#91 Oct 25, 2012
I was going to respond and then I thought -- no, Maverick must be just bored and trying to start an argument.

People of normal background think discipline is discipline. Hitting is a form of punishment -- it's never discipline.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#92 Oct 25, 2012
You're right. I'm deleting this from my notification thread. this is going nowhere.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#93 Oct 25, 2012
Toj wrote:
People of normal background think discipline is discipline. Hitting is a form of punishment -- it's never discipline.
People of "normal" background feel punishment IS a form of discipline. Now you're trying to split hairs. When a nun raps your knuckles with a ruler for not paying attention, is that not a form of discipline? Are you really taking the stance that hitting isn't a form of discipline?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#94 Oct 25, 2012
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
People of "normal" background feel punishment IS a form of discipline. Now you're trying to split hairs. When a nun raps your knuckles with a ruler for not paying attention, is that not a form of discipline? Are you really taking the stance that hitting isn't a form of discipline?
I'm not splitting hairs. That's how I see it. When I nun raps your knuckles with a rules for not paying attention, you are receiving punishment for not paying attention.

"Discipline is a positive method of teaching a child self-control, confidence, and responsibility. The key to positive discipline is teaching a child what behavior is okay and what behavior is not okay. The focus is on what children are expected and allowed to do. It includes catching kids being good and encouraging appropriate behavior. It also includes modeling appropriate behavior. Punishment is quite different from discipline. Punishment may be physical as in spanking, hitting, or causing pain. It may be psychological as in disapproval, isolation, or shaming. Punishment focuses on past misbehavior and offers little or nothing to help a child behave better in the future. When punishment is used, the person who punishes the child becomes responsible for the child's behavior. Children who are raised in a way that stresses positive discipline will understand their own behavior better, show independence, and respect themselves and others. Positive discipline is a process, not a single act. It teaches children how to get along with other people. Children are held responsible for misbehavior, but the consequences are meaningful and related to the behavior. For more information and strategies to guide children's behavior, visit the eXtension Alliance for Better Child Care section on guidance and discipline."

http://www.extension.org/pages/35919/what-is-...

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#95 Oct 25, 2012
Maverick 808 wrote:
<quoted text>You should be more specific when using the word "discipline" such as "teach discipline" which would indicate teaching restraint or common sense.
Show me one statute either State or Federal that says that a mentally incompentant person can be held liable for what they do or have done.
You've been doing what you do for 40 years and you still want to separate them from normal society?
I'm so sorry I didn't dumb it down enough for you. Most adults I know understand the difference between punishment and discipline. I guess it's beyond your ken.

Since you insist on accusing me of saying things I haven't said, and of holding views I do not, this is over. You don't want to discuss, you think you know it all. You do NOT.
Have a nice day.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Wilmington, IL

#96 Oct 26, 2012
Okay, so some people don't think punishment is a form of discipline. Hmmm.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#97 Oct 26, 2012
edogxxx wrote:
Okay, so some people don't think punishment is a form of discipline. Hmmm.
I'm with the dog. Punishment is part of discipline. That does not mean beating a kid. A time out. No tv. No video games. These are all punishment. These are all discipline. Discipline is about rules and consequences. Some worse than others.

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