“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#85 Dec 10, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
That's your problem, sir. You need every single little bit of information spelled out directly.
I don't have time for that so you're not going to get that from me. If you cannot infer some common things skip over.
I have more things going than Topix. Perhaps you can juggle better than me, so be it.
I believe you're trying to get a rise out of me and it's not going to work. It is not important to me what you believe or think.
I'm not trying to get into the rancorous fight you all are having but I still feel you have not explained away the seeming contradiction. The differentiation is certainly not apparent, so I will ask once again.

LW2: You maintain that the poor table manners DO affect you because they gross you out(although the LW did not cite anything gross that his gf does). Fair enough. You are grossed out. But that is just a psychological affect. Nothing tangible.

LW3: Bothered by people calling back with no message or some such thing. Isn't that also just a psychological thing?

I can understand that YOU are bothered by one scenario and not the other, but to me, neither has any tangible material affect on the person bothered by it.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#86 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not trying to get into the rancorous fight you all are having but I still feel you have not explained away the seeming contradiction. The differentiation is certainly not apparent, so I will ask once again.
LW2: You maintain that the poor table manners DO affect you because they gross you out(although the LW did not cite anything gross that his gf does). Fair enough. You are grossed out. But that is just a psychological affect. Nothing tangible.
LW3: Bothered by people calling back with no message or some such thing. Isn't that also just a psychological thing?
I can understand that YOU are bothered by one scenario and not the other, but to me, neither has any tangible material affect on the person bothered by it.
First scenario it is some one in your life, potentially every day. The added thing is its some one directly with you. To compare a perfect stranger's telephone call to it doesn't seem to me to be on the same level of relationship. Swap your wife for thew open mouth eater at dinner and then swap the unknown caller who happens to be a salesman from Avon.

Is it still the same thing to you personally? Having a relationship can change perspectives.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#87 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
Or until they beat you, disrespect you, kick you out of the house. And by the same token, I contend that your CHILD should be the most important person in your life and you should accept that they will make many choices in life that may not be the same choice you would make. Your children are not supposed to grow up to be clones of you.
<quoted text> Not approving of his lifestyle is one thing, they are way past that.
<quoted text>He DOES accept their views. He's not trying to get his dad to suck c#<k or get his mom to scissor grind. He just wants them to treat him with respect and accept that how he lives HIS life is not how they live theirs.
You've stated a lot of facts, but did you have a point?

Should he cut his parents out of his life for not doing backflips over his lifestyle or should he accept them for their beliefs and maintain limited contact?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#88 Dec 10, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
You've stated a lot of facts, but did you have a point?
Should he cut his parents out of his life for not doing backflips over his lifestyle or should he accept them for their beliefs and maintain limited contact?
He should accept them the same way they have accepted him.

He should beat them.
Kick them out of his house.
They will not allow his partner in their house? He should not allow the to visit together or at the very least, certainly not allow them to sleep in the same bed under his roof.

If they can come visit him under the same terms they place on him, great. But I'm gonna take a leap here and say that those terms would be unacceptable to them. Hell, I'm gonna take a leap and say they will never visit him as long as he's living with another man. Hell, I'm taking a 3rd leap and saying they would never welcome into their family a child adopted into their child's homosexual union.

If they can't abide by the same standards they set forth for him, then why should he?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#89 Dec 10, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
First scenario it is some one in your life, potentially every day. The added thing is its some one directly with you. To compare a perfect stranger's telephone call to it doesn't seem to me to be on the same level of relationship. Swap your wife for thew open mouth eater at dinner and then swap the unknown caller who happens to be a salesman from Avon.
Is it still the same thing to you personally? Having a relationship can change perspectives.
Its varying levels of the same thing: things that bother you, but don't have any tangible effect on you.

As for things the person in your relationship does, I subscribe to the "don't try to change me, I won't try to change you" school of thought. When we were dating, that was my wife's time to figure out if she could take me as I am warts and all. I'm not anyone's improvement project.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#90 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Its varying levels of the same thing: things that bother you, but don't have any tangible effect on you.
As for things the person in your relationship does, I subscribe to the "don't try to change me, I won't try to change you" school of thought. When we were dating, that was my wife's time to figure out if she could take me as I am warts and all. I'm not anyone's improvement project.
I can see that and certainly agree with it. Like I said, it would probably be the first and last date with a person who ate like that.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#91 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
If they can come visit him under the same terms they place on him, great. But I'm gonna take a leap here and say that those terms would be unacceptable to them. Hell, I'm gonna take a leap and say they will never visit him as long as he's living with another man. Hell, I'm taking a 3rd leap and saying they would never welcome into their family a child adopted into their child's homosexual union.
That's forcing acceptance on the parents.

It's one thing to say "okay, junior is gay. We'll learn to deal with that."

It's something entirely different to say, "okay, junior is gay. We're gonna accept his gay lover with open arms and be at the Christening of their adopted son, and act like we approve of their entire life-style."

See?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#92 Dec 10, 2013
Tonka, I think if someone wants to change the person they married, they married the wrong person.

Don't take that absolutely literally b/c you people love your boxes and life doesn't come in neat little boxes.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#93 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Its varying levels of the same thing: things that bother you, but don't have any tangible effect on you.
As for things the person in your relationship does, I subscribe to the "don't try to change me, I won't try to change you" school of thought. When we were dating, that was my wife's time to figure out if she could take me as I am warts and all. I'm not anyone's improvement project.
I'm asking b/c this, to me, is highlly unusual. Do I understand that nothing bothers you unless it physically touches you?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#94 Dec 10, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm asking b/c this, to me, is highlly unusual. Do I understand that nothing bothers you unless it physically touches you?
This is not about me and what bothers me. This is about your contradicting statements. Your statements again.

L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.

L3: Why do people care what other people do if it doesn't affect them nor wrong anyone?

I think I can speak for Race(he can correct me if I'm not), but the food things that bother you, I see as something that has no affect on you, so it should be covered under your statement about LW3. You say it grosses you out. Great. But to me it has no more of a tangible affect on you than the phone call thing.

I read your statement like this:

L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.

L3: This phone thing would not bother me. Why would anyone else care?

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#95 Dec 10, 2013
edogxxx wrote:

That's forcing acceptance on the parents.
So terrible to accept other people as they are.
edogxxx wrote:
<It's one thing to say "okay, junior is gay. We'll learn to deal with that."
And by deal with that we mean ridicule him. Treat him as if there is something wrong with him. Don't allow him to bring his partner here.

Pretty much the same as a racist family disowning their son for marrying a black person.
A Christian family disowning their son for marrying a jew.

Bsically, by deal with it, we mean ignore it completely and make him pretend like he's not gay when he's around us.
edogxxx wrote:
It's something entirely different to say, "okay, junior is gay. We're gonna accept his gay lover with open arms and be at the Christening of their adopted son, and act like we approve of their entire life-style."
See?
Get a dictionary dum dum. Acceptance does not mean approval.

Why do I bother ?
TSTI

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#96 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not about me and what bothers me. This is about your contradicting statements. Your statements again.
L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.
L3: Why do people care what other people do if it doesn't affect them nor wrong anyone?
I think I can speak for Race(he can correct me if I'm not), but the food things that bother you, I see as something that has no affect on you, so it should be covered under your statement about LW3. You say it grosses you out. Great. But to me it has no more of a tangible affect on you than the phone call thing.
I read your statement like this:
L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.
L3: This phone thing would not bother me. Why would anyone else care?
Whatever. Sorry. You and Race put things in boxes. You don't seem to realize relationships make the difference and proxmity makes the difference.

If your child had horrible table manner, would you care? Would you say something? It doesn't affect you. It doesn't touch you.

Now, if some guy named in a restaurant you frequent had horrible table manners three tables over, would you care?

That's the difference.

I'm a bit tired of explaining this.

Think that I am contradicting myself b/c it doesn't matter to me and that, my friend, does not affect me.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#97 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not about me and what bothers me. This is about your contradicting statements. Your statements again.
L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.
L3: Why do people care what other people do if it doesn't affect them nor wrong anyone?
I think I can speak for Race(he can correct me if I'm not), but the food things that bother you, I see as something that has no affect on you, so it should be covered under your statement about LW3. You say it grosses you out. Great. But to me it has no more of a tangible affect on you than the phone call thing.
I read your statement like this:
L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.
L3: This phone thing would not bother me. Why would anyone else care?
Are you are taking the world view instead of the letter writer's place of happening?

The LW is next to the person in L2. L3 has no idea who, what, or where that person is.(shrug)

Okay. Now that really is it.

Ha! Until I decide different.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#98 Dec 10, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not about me and what bothers me. This is about your contradicting statements. Your statements again.
You said: "But to me it has no more of a tangible affect on you than the phone call thing."

So it is about you b/c it is YOUR understanding. I would like you to define why you are keeping it to a "tangible affect". When I said it affected me I never said "tangible affect" but you took that on as if that is the definition I was using.

Trying to understand your statements so explain please why it needs to be a tangible affect.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#99 Dec 10, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
You said: "But to me it has no more of a tangible affect on you than the phone call thing."
So it is about you b/c it is YOUR understanding. I would like you to define why you are keeping it to a "tangible affect". When I said it affected me I never said "tangible affect" but you took that on as if that is the definition I was using.
Trying to understand your statements so explain please why it needs to be a tangible affect.
To me, if you have not been physically affected, you have not lost money, property, been denied of an opportunity, been discriminated against, etc....then you really have not been affected. You walk out of the room in the same condition and status that you walked into the room. Unharmed and whole.

Seeing a crappy diaper is gross. If I see my wife change that diaper, I didn't have to do the work of changing it. My hands never got dirty. Its just gross to see. But have I really been affected just by seeing it? I say no. Seeing someone chew with their mouth opened? Might bother me. Might bother me enough to say something. But how much it bothers me is subjective. Same as he phone thing.

“Where is Tonka?”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#100 Dec 11, 2013
Yes, LW2 statement should be covered under LW3 statement, but she is differentiating based upon her own prejudice, and excusing herself. She is holding herself to LW2 standards and everyone else to LW3 standards.
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not about me and what bothers me. This is about your contradicting statements. Your statements again.
L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.
L3: Why do people care what other people do if it doesn't affect them nor wrong anyone?
I think I can speak for Race(he can correct me if I'm not), but the food things that bother you, I see as something that has no affect on you, so it should be covered under your statement about LW3. You say it grosses you out. Great. But to me it has no more of a tangible affect on you than the phone call thing.
I read your statement like this:
L2: Food things bother me, for instance when someone chews with their mouth open. Yuk.
L3: This phone thing would not bother me. Why would anyone else care?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#101 Dec 11, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>To me, if you have not been physically affected, you have not lost money, property, been denied of an opportunity, been discriminated against, etc....then you really have not been affected. You walk out of the room in the same condition and status that you walked into the room. Unharmed and whole.
Seeing a crappy diaper is gross. If I see my wife change that diaper, I didn't have to do the work of changing it. My hands never got dirty. Its just gross to see. But have I really been affected just by seeing it? I say no. Seeing someone chew with their mouth opened? Might bother me. Might bother me enough to say something. But how much it bothers me is subjective. Same as he phone thing.
From Merriam Webster online --(emphasis mine, except the actual word they had capped)
Definition of AFFECT: the conscious SUBJECTIVE aspect of an emotion considered APART from bodily changes; also: a set of observable manifestations of a SUBJECTIVELY experienced emotion.

Hee, hee. Just sayin'!

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#102 Dec 11, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
From Merriam Webster online --(emphasis mine, except the actual word they had capped)
Definition of AFFECT: the conscious SUBJECTIVE aspect of an emotion considered APART from bodily changes; also: a set of observable manifestations of a SUBJECTIVELY experienced emotion.
Hee, hee. Just sayin'!
But by that token, the people bothered by the phone thing are affected as well. Subjective and emotional.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#103 Dec 11, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>

<quoted text>Get a dictionary dum dum. Acceptance does not mean approval.
And birds go tweet. It sounds like that's exactly what's happening. The parents "accept" him enough to have him over for holiday dinners, but don't "approve" of him bringing his boyfriend. Should they? Where do you draw the distinction between acceptance and approval?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#104 Dec 11, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>But by that token, the people bothered by the phone thing are affected as well. Subjective and emotional.
Exactly. There's room for everyone! ;)

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