BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit ...

BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

There are 239454 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Jan 8, 2009, titled BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen.... In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#191400 May 24, 2014
LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you're the one so distraught over the whole slavery issue, my suggestion is to try Google.
I knew about the origins of slavery way before the invention of Google. However, try this from Google :

HISTORY OF SLAVERY
An evil of civilization

Slavery enters human history with civilization. Hunter-gatherers and primitive farmers have no use for a slave. They collect or grow just enough food for themselves. One more pair of hands is one more mouth. There is no economic advantage in owning another human being.

Once people gather in towns and cities, a surplus of food created in the countryside (often now on large estates) makes possible a wide range of crafts in the town. On a large farm or in a workshop there is real benefit in a reliable source of cheap labour, costing no more than the minimum of food and lodging. These are the conditions for slavery. Every ancient civilization uses slaves. And it proves easy to acquire them.


War is the main source of supply, and wars are frequent and brutal in early civilizations. When a town falls to a hostile army, it is normal to take into slavery those inhabitants who will make useful workers and to kill the rest.

There are several other ways in which slaves are acquired. Pirates offer their captives for sale. A criminal may be sentenced to slavery. An unpayable debt can bring the end of liberty. The impoverished sell their own children. And the children of slaves are themselves slaves - though with a cheap supply of labour available through war, not many owners will allow their slaves the diversion of raising a family.

Slaves in Babylon: 18th century BC

Information about slaves in early societies relates mainly to their legal status, which is essentially that of an object - part of the owner's valuable property. The Code of Hammurabi, from Babylon in the 18th century BC, gives chilling details of the different Rewards and penalties for surgeons operating on free men or slaves. But it also reveals that the system is not one of unmitigated brutality. Surprisingly, Babylonian slaves are themselves allowed to own property.

But the first civilization in which we know a great deal about the role of slaves is that of ancient Greece.

Slaves in Greece: from the 7th century BC

Both the leading states of Greece - Sparta and Athens - depend entirely upon forced labour, though the system in Sparta is more properly described as serfdom rather than slavery. The distinction is that the helots of Sparta are a conquered people, living on their own hereditary land but forced to work it for their Spartan masters. Their existence is a traditional rural one to which certain rights remain attached.

The slaves of Athens, by contrast, have no conventional rights. But their condition varies greatly according to the work they do.

The most unfortunate Athenian slaves are the miners, who are driven often to the point of death by their owners (the mines are state-owned but are leased to private managers). By contrast other categories of slaves - particularly those owned directly by the state, such as the 300 Scythian archers who provide the police force of Athens - can acquire a certain prestige.

And it goes on and on, and it starts much earlier than what you've read above. Oh, haven't read it? I see. When did your eyes start watering?

Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintext...

==========

Poor LOSER.
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#191401 May 24, 2014
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
LRS wrote:
Chronology of slavery.
http://www.brycchancarey.com/slavery/chrono2 ....
<quoted text>
Obviously you did not read the link as it covers all post-Roman Empire slavery in Europe. It does not mention slavery in Muslim countries. Oh, they still have slavery in parts of Africa.
How thoughtless of me. But, I didn't feel like going all the back to 1760 B.C., I tired upon reaching the 15th! I suggested he try Google for further info. Joko never needs Google, though. He's got it all in his head, don't ya know?

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#191402 May 24, 2014
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
You still blame ONLY white people when it was black people who enslaved them in Africa to begin with. And there were blacks who owned slaves. And most people did not own slaves but you condemn them too simply because they are white.
As a former Catholic who is now an Atheist, do you believe in Original Sin? I question it as a baby did nothing wrong. So how could a white person born today be responsible for slavery over a hundred and fifty years ago.
I do not blame Germans for the Holocaust. Sure I blame the NAZIs and the Waffen SS. I have no problem with honorable warriors, much like myself, who were just doing their duty.
Oh, one of my offices I had in Germany was an old Gestapo headquarters!
I DID say there was slavery in Africa, but that it was local and tribal, not spread out. That's no excuse, it's still wrong. BUT, slavery started as far away as Abraham, and did you know that the Jews coming out of Egypt had their own slaves? That Jesus himself was silent on slavery and while we are at it, silent on women's rights? Not just whites owned slaves, all origins did, but when I mentioned white slave owners you know damn well I was referring to American slaves.

I never said anything about blaming Germans for the holocaust. You're way out of line again. Irrelevant. YOU said Germans finished paying reparations in the 90s or something. Well, who do you think was paying those reparations? All the PAYERS of reparations were not even alive during and after both wars. Same for slavery, YES you have to pay reparations because slavery was an official policy of YOUR government, the same government you have today based on the same constitution, said constitution that totally ignored the slaves.

It's amazing how poorly equipped to discuss even your own history, Rogue. All you say and write is based on gut feelings and knee jerking, no knowledge required.
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#191403 May 24, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I knew about the origins of slavery way before the invention of Google. However, try this from Google :
HISTORY OF SLAVERY
An evil of civilization
Slavery enters human history with civilization. Hunter-gatherers and primitive farmers have no use for a slave. They collect or grow just enough food for themselves. One more pair of hands is one more mouth. There is no economic advantage in owning another human being.
Once people gather in towns and cities, a surplus of food created in the countryside (often now on large estates) makes possible a wide range of crafts in the town. On a large farm or in a workshop there is real benefit in a reliable source of cheap labour, costing no more than the minimum of food and lodging. These are the conditions for slavery. Every ancient civilization uses slaves. And it proves easy to acquire them.
War is the main source of supply, and wars are frequent and brutal in early civilizations. When a town falls to a hostile army, it is normal to take into slavery those inhabitants who will make useful workers and to kill the rest.
There are several other ways in which slaves are acquired. Pirates offer their captives for sale. A criminal may be sentenced to slavery. An unpayable debt can bring the end of liberty. The impoverished sell their own children. And the children of slaves are themselves slaves - though with a cheap supply of labour available through war, not many owners will allow their slaves the diversion of raising a family.
Slaves in Babylon: 18th century BC
Information about slaves in early societies relates mainly to their legal status, which is essentially that of an object - part of the owner's valuable property. The Code of Hammurabi, from Babylon in the 18th century BC, gives chilling details of the different Rewards and penalties for surgeons operating on free men or slaves. But it also reveals that the system is not one of unmitigated brutality. Surprisingly, Babylonian slaves are themselves allowed to own property.
But the first civilization in which we know a great deal about the role of slaves is that of ancient Greece.
Slaves in Greece: from the 7th century BC
Both the leading states of Greece - Sparta and Athens - depend entirely upon forced labour, though the system in Sparta is more properly described as serfdom rather than slavery. The distinction is that the helots of Sparta are a conquered people, living on their own hereditary land but forced to work it for their Spartan masters. Their existence is a traditional rural one to which certain rights remain attached.
The slaves of Athens, by contrast, have no conventional rights. But their condition varies greatly according to the work they do.
The most unfortunate Athenian slaves are the miners, who are driven often to the point of death by their owners (the mines are state-owned but are leased to private managers). By contrast other categories of slaves - particularly those owned directly by the state, such as the 300 Scythian archers who provide the police force of Athens - can acquire a certain prestige.
And it goes on and on, and it starts much earlier than what you've read above. Oh, haven't read it? I see. When did your eyes start watering?
Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintext...
==========
Poor LOSER.
HaHaHa! I keep telling you joko, DON'T ASSUME! It will come back and bite you before you know it. Like it just DID!!!!! LMAO!

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#191404 May 24, 2014
Karma is a_______ wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Jim Webb (D-VA)
Senator Jim Webb (D-VA)
Representative Joe Sestak, D-PA
Representative Chris Carney, D-PA
Representative Patrick Murphy, D-PA
Representative Phil Hare, D-IL
Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA)
Former House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt
Representative David Bonior
Former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle
Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat
Vice President Al Gore
Senator Daniel Inouye,
Senator John Kerry,
Representative Charles Rangel
Sen Max Cleland
Sen, Chris Dodd
Sen Ted Kennnedy
President Jack Kennedy
Gen Wesley Clark
the list goes on and on and on and on.....
President Jimmy Carter

Don't forget these Chickenhawks who escaped the draft:
VP Dick Cheny
Rush Limbaugh
Pat Buchanan

And you have those who never served in the military:
Sean Hannity (FOX).
Bill O'Reilly:(FOX).
Glenn Beck (FOX).
Ted Nugent
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#191405 May 24, 2014
Instant Classic!!! LMAO!!!
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#191406 May 24, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I DID say there was slavery in Africa, but that it was local and tribal, not spread out. That's no excuse, it's still wrong. BUT, slavery started as far away as Abraham, and did you know that the Jews coming out of Egypt had their own slaves? That Jesus himself was silent on slavery and while we are at it, silent on women's rights? Not just whites owned slaves, all origins did, but when I mentioned white slave owners you know damn well I was referring to American slaves.
I never said anything about blaming Germans for the holocaust. You're way out of line again. Irrelevant. YOU said Germans finished paying reparations in the 90s or something. Well, who do you think was paying those reparations? All the PAYERS of reparations were not even alive during and after both wars. Same for slavery, YES you have to pay reparations because slavery was an official policy of YOUR government, the same government you have today based on the same constitution, said constitution that totally ignored the slaves.
It's amazing how poorly equipped to discuss even your own history, Rogue. All you say and write is based on gut feelings and knee jerking, no knowledge required.
And there you have it folks.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191407 May 24, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I knew about the origins of slavery way before the invention of Google. However, try this from Google :
HISTORY OF SLAVERY
An evil of civilization
Slavery enters human history with civilization. Hunter-gatherers and primitive farmers have no use for a slave. They collect or grow just enough food for themselves. One more pair of hands is one more mouth. There is no economic advantage in owning another human being.
Once people gather in towns and cities, a surplus of food created in the countryside (often now on large estates) makes possible a wide range of crafts in the town. On a large farm or in a workshop there is real benefit in a reliable source of cheap labour, costing no more than the minimum of food and lodging. These are the conditions for slavery. Every ancient civilization uses slaves. And it proves easy to acquire them.
War is the main source of supply, and wars are frequent and brutal in early civilizations. When a town falls to a hostile army, it is normal to take into slavery those inhabitants who will make useful workers and to kill the rest.
There are several other ways in which slaves are acquired. Pirates offer their captives for sale. A criminal may be sentenced to slavery. An unpayable debt can bring the end of liberty. The impoverished sell their own children. And the children of slaves are themselves slaves - though with a cheap supply of labour available through war, not many owners will allow their slaves the diversion of raising a family.
Slaves in Babylon: 18th century BC
Information about slaves in early societies relates mainly to their legal status, which is essentially that of an object - part of the owner's valuable property. The Code of Hammurabi, from Babylon in the 18th century BC, gives chilling details of the different Rewards and penalties for surgeons operating on free men or slaves. But it also reveals that the system is not one of unmitigated brutality. Surprisingly, Babylonian slaves are themselves allowed to own property.
But the first civilization in which we know a great deal about the role of slaves is that of ancient Greece.
Slaves in Greece: from the 7th century BC
Both the leading states of Greece - Sparta and Athens - depend entirely upon forced labour, though the system in Sparta is more properly described as serfdom rather than slavery. The distinction is that the helots of Sparta are a conquered people, living on their own hereditary land but forced to work it for their Spartan masters. Their existence is a traditional rural one to which certain rights remain attached.
The slaves of Athens, by contrast, have no conventional rights. But their condition varies greatly according to the work they do.
The most unfortunate Athenian slaves are the miners, who are driven often to the point of death by their owners (the mines are state-owned but are leased to private managers). By contrast other categories of slaves - particularly those owned directly by the state, such as the 300 Scythian archers who provide the police force of Athens - can acquire a certain prestige.
And it goes on and on, and it starts much earlier than what you've read above. Oh, haven't read it? I see. When did your eyes start watering?
Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintext...
==========
Poor LOSER.
But in your twisted mind, only white Americans are responsible. Even those who may have moved to the US after our Civil War> Do you have any idea how many Union Soldiers gave up their lives to free those slaves? But their descendents are responsible for those slaves?
Just face it, you hate white people ...... except for yourself.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191408 May 24, 2014
Where was the first Memorial Day observed? You see La Jacqueau, there were some black who thank white people for freeing them from slavery. They were probably Republicans too!

Memorial Day was started by former slaves on May, 1, 1865 in Charleston, SC to honor 257 dead Union Soldiers who had been buried in a mass grave in a Confederate prison camp. They dug up the bodies and worked for 2 weeks to give them a proper burial as gratitude for fighting for their freedom. They then held a parade of 10,000 people led by 2,800 Black children where they marched, sang and celebrated.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/military/memorialday.as...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191409 May 24, 2014
Oh Deep Throat Jacqueau, did you know the first BLACK U.S. Sentor and Congressmen where REPUBLICANS?

From Wiki:
First black Senator and Representatives:
Sen. Hiram Revels (R-MS),
Rep. Benjamin S. Turner (R-AL),
Rep. Robert DeLarge (R-SC),
Rep. Josiah Walls (R-FL),
Rep. Jefferson Long (R-GA),
Rep.Joseph Rainey (R-SC)
Rep. Robert B. Elliott (R-SC)

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191410 May 24, 2014
From Wiki:
First black Senator and Representatives:
Sen. Hiram Revels (R-MS),
Rep. Benjamin S. Turner (R-AL),
Rep. Robert DeLarge (R-SC),
Rep. Josiah Walls (R-FL),
Rep. Jefferson Long (R-GA),
Rep.Joseph Rainey (R-SC)
Rep. Robert B. Elliott (R-SC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_color...

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#191411 May 24, 2014
LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
How thoughtless of me. But, I didn't feel like going all the back to 1760 B.C., I tired upon reaching the 15th! I suggested he try Google for further info. Joko never needs Google, though. He's got it all in his head, don't ya know?
Yes,there is a short paragraph on slavery beforer 1400 - the rest is all 1400 to 2003. Which is a period that is minor if you don't go back to its true origin over 6,000 years ago.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191412 May 24, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I DID say there was slavery in Africa, but that it was local and tribal, not spread out. That's no excuse, it's still wrong. BUT, slavery started as far away as Abraham, and did you know that the Jews coming out of Egypt had their own slaves? That Jesus himself was silent on slavery and while we are at it, silent on women's rights? Not just whites owned slaves, all origins did, but when I mentioned white slave owners you know damn well I was referring to American slaves.
I never said anything about blaming Germans for the holocaust. You're way out of line again. Irrelevant. YOU said Germans finished paying reparations in the 90s or something. Well, who do you think was paying those reparations? All the PAYERS of reparations were not even alive during and after both wars. Same for slavery, YES you have to pay reparations because slavery was an official policy of YOUR government, the same government you have today based on the same constitution, said constitution that totally ignored the slaves.
It's amazing how poorly equipped to discuss even your own history, Rogue. All you say and write is based on gut feelings and knee jerking, no knowledge required.
LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
And there you have it folks.
Yep, Jesus was evil but Jacqueau would probably learn to love them if He blessed abortions and gay marriages.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191413 May 24, 2014
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Week even the REMFs at the Flag Pole don't seem to "get it". Military people are not life whiny azzed Liberals. Whether your hell-hole was on the Shores of Tripoli or n island call Iwo Jima or Chosin Reservoir or a place called Fallujah every thing else is soo much better.
Service man and woman are use to standing in line but the ghetto people don't. They get upset if their food stamps area day late or they can not get more than three Obama Phones.
There are very few Liberals in the military. the more Liberal you are, the more you moan and grown about anything. So when you here some stat like this one, just remember it was written by a REMF-ing Libtard.
Karma is a_______ wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Jim Webb (D-VA)
Senator Jim Webb (D-VA)
Representative Joe Sestak, D-PA
Representative Chris Carney, D-PA
Representative Patrick Murphy, D-PA
Representative Phil Hare, D-IL
Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA)
Former House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt
Representative David Bonior
Former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle
Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat
Vice President Al Gore
Senator Daniel Inouye,
Senator John Kerry,
Representative Charles Rangel
Sen Max Cleland
Sen, Chris Dodd
Sen Ted Kennnedy
President Jack Kennedy
Gen Wesley Clark
the list goes on and on and on and on.....
Yep, but for every Democrat that served there were ten Republicans.
My point was that Liberals constantly whine about everything but the vast majority of people who have served in the military are NOT Liberals and that is why there are few complaints about the VA health care system.
Libtards think that just because fewer people complain about the VA system, compared to civilian health care, the VA system must be superior. And that is just another reason why I call you peoples LIBTARD.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191414 May 24, 2014
Karma is a_______ wrote:
<quoted text>
Senator Jim Webb (D-VA)
Senator Jim Webb (D-VA)
Representative Joe Sestak, D-PA
Representative Chris Carney, D-PA
Representative Patrick Murphy, D-PA
Representative Phil Hare, D-IL
Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA)
Former House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt
Representative David Bonior
Former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle
Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat
Vice President Al Gore
Senator Daniel Inouye,
Senator John Kerry,
Representative Charles Rangel
Sen Max Cleland
Sen, Chris Dodd
Sen Ted Kennnedy
President Jack Kennedy
Gen Wesley Clark
the list goes on and on and on and on.....
And John Murtha dies because of a botched operation at a military hospital!!!

From Wiki:

Death and legacy
A joint service honor guard bearing the casket of John P. Murtha; Johnstown Pennsylvania, February 16, 2010

Murtha was first hospitalized with gallbladder problems for a few days in December 2009 and had surgery on January 28, 2010, at Bethesda Naval Hospital. Longtime friend and fellow Pennsylvania Democratic Representative Bob Brady said Murtha's large intestine was damaged during the normally routine laparoscopic surgery, causing an infection. Due to the complication, Murtha was again hospitalized two days later, and died on the afternoon of February 8, 2010, in the Virginia Hospital Center in Arlington, Virginia, with his family by his side. He was buried on February 16, 2010, at Grandview Cemetery in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#191415 May 24, 2014
LRS wrote:
<quoted text>
So, glotard, prove me wrong by showing me the word "alien". I was not talking about aliens, sorry to bust your cherry. As I said, your assumptions are little more than amusing and always incorrect.
Sure, Romper, you posted the link suggesting ancient artifacts shaped somewhat like aircraft were inspired by alien spacecrafts, and defended them when I scoffed at it because you didn't believe it?

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Romper: "[W]hat were the ancients seeing in the air with vertical tails? Look at ancient glyphics, planes, helicopter, spacesuits, etc., these people were seeing something that wasn't normal to them."

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>Romper thinks he didn't put his foot in his mouth because he didn't say 'foot'.
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#191416 May 24, 2014
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, Romper, you posted the link suggesting ancient artifacts shaped somewhat like aircraft were inspired by alien spacecrafts, and defended them when I scoffed at it because you didn't believe it?
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Romper: "[W]hat were the ancients seeing in the air with vertical tails? Look at ancient glyphics, planes, helicopter, spacesuits, etc., these people were seeing something that wasn't normal to them."
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
<quoted text>
You really don't understand what you read, do you? Show me where I said the craft they saw were inspired by aliens. You can't because I didn't make any such claim! You have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. Period. You and joko have the exact same problem with assumptions, mainly, they're always incorrect!

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#191417 May 24, 2014
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
I DID say there was slavery in Africa, but that it was local and tribal, not spread out. That's no excuse, it's still wrong. BUT, slavery started as far away as Abraham, and did you know that the Jews coming out of Egypt had their own slaves? That Jesus himself was silent on slavery and while we are at it, silent on women's rights? Not just whites owned slaves, all origins did, but when I mentioned white slave owners you know damn well I was referring to American slaves.
I never said anything about blaming Germans for the holocaust. You're way out of line again. Irrelevant. YOU said Germans finished paying reparations in the 90s or something. Well, who do you think was paying those reparations? All the PAYERS of reparations were not even alive during and after both wars. Same for slavery, YES you have to pay reparations because slavery was an official policy of YOUR government, the same government you have today based on the same constitution, said constitution that totally ignored the slaves.
It's amazing how poorly equipped to discuss even your own history, Rogue. All you say and write is based on gut feelings and knee jerking, no knowledge required.
<quoted text>
Yep, Jesus was evil but Jacqueau would probably learn to love them if He blessed abortions and gay marriages.
You're nuts. I said Jesus ignored slavery. Why? It didn''t bother him? As to abortion and gay rights, I wonder why he never mentioned those. Do you know why?

I told you I was for free choice, not necessarily abortion. Learn to read English, please. You're for capital punishment and killing anyone who unlawfully enters your house. But against abortion. Figure that one out. The state, as it proved two weeks ago, doesn't even know how to put a man to death. 6 people died in Santa Barbara today. Guns.Yet you want more guns. Abortion and gays - more dangerous than your beloved guns? Sure.
Frank

Spokane, WA

#191418 May 24, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes,there is a short paragraph on slavery beforer 1400 - the rest is all 1400 to 2003. Which is a period that is minor if you don't go back to its true origin over 6,000 years ago.
There is no one alive today that was alive before 1865. There is no one alive today that was alive when the Republic Party ended slavery,or even in the decades after the Civil War when the Republicans where able to bring our country into the twentieth century. Unfortunately over the past decades Democrats have been able to denigrate our country backward,especially in recent decades.
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#191419 May 24, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
You're nuts. I said Jesus ignored slavery. Why? It didn''t bother him? As to abortion and gay rights, I wonder why he never mentioned those. Do you know why?
I told you I was for free choice, not necessarily abortion. Learn to read English, please. You're for capital punishment and killing anyone who unlawfully enters your house. But against abortion. Figure that one out. The state, as it proved two weeks ago, doesn't even know how to put a man to death. 6 people died in Santa Barbara today. Guns.Yet you want more guns. Abortion and gays - more dangerous than your beloved guns? Sure.
The kid was sick. But, don't worry about that, huh? When are you going to realize that a gun is merely a tool! Save your rant about knives, etc. We're tired of hearing that crap. Tonight, at dinner, my date and myself were talking about that very shooting. And, you know what joko, the word "gun" was never mentioned. We were more focused on the individual than the damn TOOL used! BTW, what in the hell does "free choice" mean? Can't say I've ever heard of that classification. The answer is obvious, please don't elaborate. TIA

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