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Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186958 Mar 23, 2014
A Spy Speaks Out
Former Top CIA Official Tyler Drumheller On "Faulty" Intelligence Claims /
http://tinyurl.com/rle4x / April 23, 2006
"The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy."
Tyler Drumheller CIA Ret.

(CBS) When no weapons of mass destruction surfaced in Iraq, President Bush insisted that all those WMD claims before the war were the result of faulty intelligence. But a former top CIA official, Tyler Drumheller — a 26-year veteran of the agency — has decided to do something CIA officials at his level almost never do: Speak out.

He tells correspondent Ed Bradley the real failure was not in the intelligence community but in the White House. He says he saw how the Bush administration, time and again, welcomed intelligence that fit the president's determination to go to war and turned a blind eye to intelligence that did not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/21/60m...

----------

Diplomat's Suppressed Document Lays Bare the Lies behind Iraq War
December 15, 2006 http://tinyurl.com/ye8w94
The Government's case for going to war in Iraq has been torn apart by the publication of previously suppressed evidence that Tony Blair lied over Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction.
A devastating attack on Mr. Blair's justification for military action by Carne Ross, Britain's key negotiator at the UN, has been kept under wraps until now because he was threatened with being charged with breaching the Official Secrets Act.

In the testimony revealed today Mr. Ross, 40, who helped negotiate several UN security resolutions on Iraq, makes it clear that Mr. Blair must have known Saddam Hussein possessed no weapons of mass destruction. He said that during his posting to the UN, "at no time did HMG [Her Majesty's Government] assess that Iraq's WMD (or any other capability) posed a threat to the UK or its interests."

Mr. Ross revealed it was a commonly held view among British officials dealing with Iraq that any threat by Saddam Hussein had been "effectively contained".
He also reveals that British officials warned US diplomats that bringing down the Iraqi dictator would lead to the chaos the world has since witnessed. "I remember on several occasions the UK team stating this view in terms during our discussions with the US (who agreed)," he said.

It shows Mr. Ross told the inquiry, chaired by Lord Butler, "there was no intelligence evidence of significant holdings of CW [chemical warfare], BW [biological warfare] or nuclear material" held by the Iraqi dictator before the invasion. "There was, moreover, no intelligence or assessment during my time in the job that Iraq had any intention to launch an attack against its neighbors or the UK or the US," he added.

Mr. Ross's evidence directly challenges the assertions by the Prime Minster that the war was legally justified because Saddam possessed WMDs which could be "activated" within 45 minutes and posed a threat to British interests. These claims were also made in two dossiers, subsequently discredited, in spite of the advice by Mr. Ross.

Mr. Ross said in late 2002 that he "discussed this at some length with David Kelly", the weapons expert who a year later committed suicide when he was named as the source of a BBC report saying Downing Street had "sexed up" the WMD claims in a dossier. The Butler inquiry cleared Mr. Blair and Downing Street of "sexing up" the dossier, but the publication of the Carne Ross evidence will cast fresh doubts on its findings.

Mr Ross, 40, was a highly rated diplomat but he resigned because of his misgivings about the legality of the war. He still fears the threat of action under the Official Secrets Act.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1215-...
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186959 Mar 23, 2014
Excerpts from "Jawbreaker" by CIA Ret. Gary Berntsen
Evidence the war on terror is a lie from former CIA Station Chief
http://tinyurl.com/6a7s34 / July 23, 2008
Jawbreaker II was the name of the 2001 operation to destroy al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Below are excerpts from this book which I found most enlightening. I made it easy for you; you don’t have to read the whole book.

Mr. Berntsen was the CIA station chief in East Afghanistan in 2001 and is an impeccable source. I believe these excerpts are some of the strongest evidence we have for the idea that the war on terror is a lie. Berntsen asks why he wasn’t given the resources to destroy al Qaeda and bin Laden. Why was Berntsen relieved in the middle of operations at Tora Bora? I believe the answers to these questions are simple and grotesque. If we had destroyed al-Qaeda in December 2001, the war on terror would have come to a premature end. There would have been no further rationalization for the occupation of Afghanistan, the occupation of Iraq, or an attack on Iran. No further rationalization for the real goal – empire. The war on terror is merely cover for imperial war.

These ideas are painful for people, but they’re the truth we must force them to confront if we’re to reverse our aggression and preempt further aggression.
Questions:
Why did we allow al Qaeda and bin Laden to escape Tora Bora?
Why have we not destroyed them in the last six years?
Why are we still occupying Afghanistan?
Why did we attack Iraq that had no connection to al-Qaeda or international terror?
Why was the occupation of Iraq so utterly incompetent?
Why did the Pentagon recently sign ten year contracts to provide support services in Iraq?
Why did the Administration want the “status of forces agreement” to allow American troops to stay in Iraq indefinitely?
Why is the Administration lobbying for an attack on Iran?
Answer:
The Big Truth: The “war on terror” is a lie, only justice in American foreign policy will end terror. Corrupt dollar politics have led to corrupt dollar diplomacy and unjust war. America is now a corrupt, aggressor nation fighting a “war for empire” in a gross contravention of American ideals. God bless America and Iran; God damn the empire.
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.ph...

=========

Colin Powell Saying He Was Misled Before UN Speech on WMDs
&fe ature=related

Powell Says US Should Not Have Invaded Iraq
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Colin Powell in four-letter neo-con 'crazies' row
12 September 2004 / http://tinyurl.com/83u3by
A furious row has broken out over claims in a new book by BBC broadcaster James Naughtie that US Secretary of State Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.
Powell's extraordinary outburst is alleged to have taken place during a telephone conversation with Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. The two became close friends during the intense negotiations in the summer of 2002 to build an international coalition for intervention via the United Nations. The 'crazies' are said to be Vice-President Dick Cheney, Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/sep/12/I...

--------

Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice Tell The Truth About Iraq
July and August 2001 before 9/11/01 Iraq was no threat
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#186960 Mar 23, 2014
"There is simply no better way to move large numbers of people from city-center to city-center than on high-speed rail"

-Congressman Bill Shuster (R - Pa)

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#186961 Mar 23, 2014
Pdamerica org wrote:
A Spy Speaks Out
Former Top CIA Official Tyler Drumheller On "Faulty" Intelligence Claims /
http://tinyurl.com/rle4x / April 23, 2006
"The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy."
Tyler Drumheller CIA Ret.
(CBS) When no weapons of mass destruction surfaced in Iraq, President Bush insisted that all those WMD claims before the war were the result of faulty intelligence. But a former top CIA official, Tyler Drumheller — a 26-year veteran of the agency — has decided to do something CIA officials at his level almost never do: Speak out.
He tells correspondent Ed Bradley the real failure was not in the intelligence community but in the White House. He says he saw how the Bush administration, time and again, welcomed intelligence that fit the president's determination to go to war and turned a blind eye to intelligence that did not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/21/60m...
----------
Diplomat's Suppressed Document Lays Bare the Lies behind Iraq War
December 15, 2006 http://tinyurl.com/ye8w94
The Government's case for going to war in Iraq has been torn apart by the publication of previously suppressed evidence that Tony Blair lied over Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction.
A devastating attack on Mr. Blair's justification for military action by Carne Ross, Britain's key negotiator at the UN, has been kept under wraps until now because he was threatened with being charged with breaching the Official Secrets Act.
In the testimony revealed today Mr. Ross, 40, who helped negotiate several UN security resolutions on Iraq, makes it clear that Mr. Blair must have known Saddam Hussein possessed no weapons of mass destruction. He said that during his posting to the UN, "at no time did HMG [Her Majesty's Government] assess that Iraq's WMD (or any other capability) posed a threat to the UK or its interests."
.
He also reveals that British officials warned US diplomats that bringing down the Iraqi dictator would lead to the chaos the world has since witnessed. "I remember on several occasions the UK team stating this view in terms during our discussions with the US (who agreed)," he said.
It shows Mr. Ross told the inquiry, chaired by Lord Butler, "there was no intelligence evidence of significant holdings of CW [chemical warfare], BW [biological warfare] or nuclear material" held by the Iraqi dictator before the invasion. "There was, moreover, no intelligence or assessment during my time in the job that Iraq had any intention to launch an attack against its neighbors or the UK or the US," he added.
Mr. Ross's evidence directly challenges the assertions by the Prime Minster that the war was legally justified because Saddam possessed WMDs which could be "activated" within 45 minutes and posed a threat to British interests. These claims were also made in two dossiers, subsequently discredited, in spite of the advice by Mr. Ross.
Mr. Ross said in late 2002 that he "discussed this at some length with David Kelly", the weapons expert who a year later committed suicide when he was named as the source of a .
Mr Ross, 40, was a highly rated diplomat but he resigned because of his misgivings about the legality of the war. He still fears the threat of action under the Official Secrets Act.
More evidence that the "proof" on WsMD was fabricated. Irrefutable evidence.

After all of the above,(and Rogue will only be able to read 2 lines max before his eyes fog up), expect a post from him asking you to PROVE that GWB and his cohorts lied. Also, Rogue will tell you that many democrats like Hillary Clinton voted in favour of war. They did indeed. Why? They believed the well-crafted lies, were hornswoggled, period. Rogue will repeat the incredible made-up phantasm that Russia, France and Germany backed the Iraq invasion. At least 12 times he's repeated it. Oh hum.

sorry. too many characters, had to cut your post a bit.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#186962 Mar 23, 2014
loose cannon wrote:
"There is simply no better way to move large numbers of people from city-center to city-center than on high-speed rail"
-Congressman Bill Shuster (R - Pa)
Europeans have known that since the end of WWII and have acted on it. Yes, they have gridlock in and out of cities, but imagine what it would be like if they hadn't developed rapid trains like the French TGV.. Why can't we, in the U.S. and Canada, do that?

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#186963 Mar 23, 2014
Top of the morning, Jacques.
Top of the morning.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#186964 Mar 23, 2014
Pdamerica org wrote:
Excerpts from "Jawbreaker" by CIA Ret. Gary Berntsen
Evidence the war on terror is a lie from former CIA Station Chief
http://tinyurl.com/6a7s34 / July 23, 2008
Jawbreaker II was the name of the 2001 operation to destroy al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Below are excerpts from this book which I found most enlightening. I made it easy for you; you don’t have to read the whole book.
Mr. Berntsen was the CIA station chief in East Afghanistan in 2001 and is an impeccable source. I believe these excerpts are some of the strongest evidence we have for the idea that the war on terror is a lie. Berntsen asks why he wasn’t given the resources to destroy al Qaeda and bin Laden. Why was Berntsen relieved in the middle of operations at Tora Bora? I believe the answers to these questions are simple and grotesque. If we had destroyed al-Qaeda in December 2001, the war on terror would have come to a premature end. There would have been no further rationalization for the occupation of Afghanistan, the occupation of Iraq, or an attack on Iran. No further rationalization for the real goal – empire. The war on terror is merely cover for imperial war.
These ideas are painful for people, but they’re the truth we must force them to confront if we’re to reverse our aggression and preempt further aggression.
Questions:
Why did we allow al Qaeda and bin Laden to escape Tora Bora?
Why have we not destroyed them in the last six years?
Why are we still occupying Afghanistan?
Why did we attack Iraq that had no connection to al-Qaeda or international terror?
Why was the occupation of Iraq so utterly incompetent?
Why did the Pentagon recently sign ten year contracts to provide support services in Iraq?
Why did the Administration want the “status of forces agreement” to allow American troops to stay in Iraq indefinitely?
Why is the Administration lobbying for an attack on Iran?
Answer:
The Big Truth: The “war on terror” is a lie, only justice in American foreign policy will end terror. Corrupt dollar politics have led to corrupt dollar diplomacy and unjust war. America is now a corrupt, aggressor nation fighting a “war for empire” in a gross contravention of American ideals. God bless America and Iran; God damn the empire.
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.ph...
=========
Colin Powell Saying He Was Misled Before UN Speech on WMDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =2ZTLmOoPzjsXX&feature=rel ated
Powell Says US Should Not Have Invaded Iraq
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Colin Powell in four-letter neo-con 'crazies' row
12 September 2004 / http://tinyurl.com/83u3by
A furious row has broken out over claims in a new book by BBC broadcaster James Naughtie that US Secretary of State Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.
Powell's extraordinary outburst is alleged to have taken place during a telephone conversation with Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. The two became close friends during the intense negotiations in the summer of 2002 to build an international coalition for intervention via the United Nations. The 'crazies' are said to be Vice-President Dick Cheney, Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/sep/12/I...
--------


From above : "A furious row has broken out over claims in a new book by BBC broadcaster James Naughtie that US Secretary of State Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.
Powell's extraordinary outburst..."

That a soft-spoken man like Powell would utter such words just shows the unchecked insanity of it all.

However, I can't figure why he delivered that speech at the UN & backed the Iraq invasion. He knew, is why I don't think he was misled..Bullied by big-tome hawks who would profit from it? No doubt.
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186965 Mar 23, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
More evidence that the "proof" on WsMD was fabricated. Irrefutable evidence.
After all of the above,(and Rogue will only be able to read 2 lines max before his eyes fog up), expect a post from him asking you to PROVE that GWB and his cohorts lied. Also, Rogue will tell you that many democrats like Hillary Clinton voted in favour of war. They did indeed. Why? They believed the well-crafted lies, were hornswoggled, period. Rogue will repeat the incredible made-up phantasm that Russia, France and Germany backed the Iraq invasion. At least 12 times he's repeated it. Oh hum.
sorry. too many characters, had to cut your post a bit.
It is sad how Rogue can continue to believe the lies about WMD in Iraq when so many career CIA Chiefs came out publicly against Bush and Cheney.

Also 4 Star Marine General Anthony Zinni who testified in the Senate just two months before the Iraq invasion said under oath that Iraq was no threat and the years of Sanctions and No Fly Zones worked and Saddam was contained in a box.

----------

General Anthony Zinni, USMC,(Ret.) Remarks at CDI Board of Directors Dinner, May 12, 2004

I think the first mistake that was made was misjudging the success of containment. I heard the president say, not too long ago, I believe it was with the interview with Tim Russert that ... I'm not sure ... but at some point I heard him say that "containment did not work." That's not true.

So to say containment didn't work, I think is not only wrong from the experiences we had then, but the proof is in the pudding, in what kind of military our troops faced when we went in there.

The third mistake, I think was one we repeated from Vietnam, we had to create a false rationale for going in to get public support. The books were cooked, in my mind. The intelligence was not there. I testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee one month before the war, and Senator Lugar asked me: "General Zinni, do you feel the threat from Saddam Hussein is imminent?" I said: "No, not at all. It was not an imminent threat. Not even close. Not grave, gathering, imminent, serious, severe, mildly upsetting, none of those."
http://www.juancole.com/2004/05/zinni-on-what...
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186966 Mar 23, 2014
Gen. Anthony Zinni, USMC,(Ret.) Remarks at CDI Board of Directors Dinner, May 12, 2004 /
The sixth mistake, and maybe the biggest one, was propping up and trusting the exiles, the infamous "Gucci Guerillas" from London. We bought into their intelligence reports. To the credit of the CIA, they didn't buy into it, so I guess the Defense Department created its own boutique intelligence agency to vet them. And we ended up with a group that fed us bad information. That led us to believe that we would be welcomed with flowers in the streets; that led us to believe that this would be a cakewalk.

When I testified before Congress in 1998, after a grilling from Senator McCain and all those wonderful senators supported the Iraqi Liberation Act, and I told them that these guys are not credible and they are going to lead us into something they we will regret. At that time, they were pushing a plan that Central Command would supply air support and special forces, and we would put it into Iraq, and they would pied piper their way up to Baghdad and the whole place would fall apart. This plan was created by two senate staffers and a retired General. I happened to be the commander of central command, nobody bothered to ask me about how my troops would be used. And they were a little bit upset about me being upset about this.
These exiles did not have credibility inside the country or in the region. Not only did they not have credibility, it was clear that the information they were providing us many times was not correct and accurate. We believed in them. We also brought them in with us and deemed them into the governing council and the reception by Iraqis has been, to say the least, has not been great.
http://www.juancole.com/2004/05/zinni-on-what...

----------

Why Iraq Was a Mistake
By Lt. General GREGORY NEWBOLD, Retired
http://tinyurl.com/p4j93 Apr. 09, 2006
From 2000 until October 2002, I was a Marine Corps lieutenant general and director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. After 9/11, I was a witness and therefore a party to the actions that led us to the invasion of Iraq--an unnecessary war.

Inside the military family, I made no secret of my view that the zealots' rationale for war made no sense. And I think I was outspoken enough to make those senior to me uncomfortable.

But I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat--al-Qaeda.

I retired from the military four months before the invasion, in part because of my opposition to those who had used 9/11's tragedy to hijack our security policy. Until now, I have resisted speaking out in public. I've been silent long enough.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...

-------
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186967 Mar 23, 2014
General Eaton's Letter to President Bush on Veto
May 1, 2007 / http://tinyurl.com/mx9nm4o
Dear Mr. President,
Today, in your veto message regarding the bipartisan legislation just passed on Operation Iraqi Freedom, you asserted that you so decided because you listen to your commanders on the ground.
Respectfully, as your former commander on the ground, your administration did not listen to our best advice. In fact, a number of my fellow Generals were forced out of their jobs, because they did not tell you what you wanted to hear -- most notably General Eric Shinseki, whose foresight regarding troop levels was advice you rejected, at our troops' peril.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/05/01/3298...

-------

America's Angriest General John Batiste
May 9, 2007 / http://tinyurl.com/maw5r26
Retired two-star Army Gen. John Batiste is lashing out at the Bush war in Iraq in ads targeting key Republicans up for re-election in 2008. His offensive may change the rules regarding civilian-military relations.

"Mr. President, you did not listen," he says. "You continue to pursue a failed strategy that is breaking our Army and Marine Corps."
The ad is scheduled to air from May 10 to 18, targeting Republican Sens. Susan Collins (Maine), John Sununu (New Hampshire), John Warner (Virginia) and Norm Coleman (Minnesota), and 10 GOP House members, including Mary Bono, Phil English, Randy Kuhl, Jim Walsh and Heather Wilson.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2007/05...

----------

THE VIEW FROM CENTCOM....So what do former CENTCOM commanders think about the neocons and their war planning? Let's listen in:
http://tinyurl.com/2rh9c / May 21, 2004

General Joseph Hoar, 1991-1994: "Paul Wolfowitz is a very bright guy, but he doesn't know anything about war-fighting, and I suspect he knows less about counterinsurgency operations....I think that the neo-conservatives had their day, by selling to the President the need for invasion of Iraq. I think it's now time for a clean sweep—and it has been for some time, in my judgment—to get rid of these people."

General Anthony Zinni, 1997-2000: He believes the neocons, including Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense, have hijacked U.S. foreign policy: "In the lead-up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw, at minimum, true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility; at worst, lying, incompetence and corruption."

General Tommy Franks, 2000-2003: Doug Feith is "the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth."
General Binford Peay III, CENTCOM commander from 1994-1997, seems to have maintained a studious silence about the conduct of the war, perhaps understandable since he's now the chairman of the board of a defense contractor that, among other things, provides ammunition for the Army's Stryker brigades.

Still, that's a pretty remarkable record, isn't it? Three of the past four CENTCOM commanders, the guys who probably understand the military requirements of a war in the Middle East better than any other humans on the planet, think the people who planned this war are completely incompetent. Quite an accomplishment.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/ind...

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#186968 Mar 23, 2014
Pdamerica org wrote:
<quoted text>
It is sad how Rogue can continue to believe the lies about WMD in Iraq when so many career CIA Chiefs came out publicly against Bush and Cheney.
Also 4 Star Marine General Anthony Zinni who testified in the Senate just two months before the Iraq invasion said under oath that Iraq was no threat and the years of Sanctions and No Fly Zones worked and Saddam was contained in a box.
----------
General Anthony Zinni, USMC,(Ret.) Remarks at CDI Board of Directors Dinner, May 12, 2004
I think the first mistake that was made was misjudging the success of containment. I heard the president say, not too long ago, I believe it was with the interview with Tim Russert that ... I'm not sure ... but at some point I heard him say that "containment did not work." That's not true.
So to say containment didn't work, I think is not only wrong from the experiences we had then, but the proof is in the pudding, in what kind of military our troops faced when we went in there.
The third mistake, I think was one we repeated from Vietnam, we had to create a false rationale for going in to get public support. The books were cooked, in my mind. The intelligence was not there. I testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee one month before the war, and Senator Lugar asked me: "General Zinni, do you feel the threat from Saddam Hussein is imminent?" I said: "No, not at all. It was not an imminent threat. Not even close. Not grave, gathering, imminent, serious, severe, mildly upsetting, none of those."
http://www.juancole.com/2004/05/zinni-on-what...
This, from above, says it all :

"General Anthony Zinni, USMC,(Ret.) Remarks at CDI Board of Directors Dinner, May 12, 2004

The third mistake, I think was one we repeated from Vietnam, we had to create a false rationale for going in to get public support. The books were cooked, in my mind. The intelligence was not there. I testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee one month before the war, and Senator Lugar asked me: "General Zinni, do you feel the threat from Saddam Hussein is imminent?" I said: "No, not at all. It was not an imminent threat. Not even close. Not grave, gathering, imminent, serious, severe, mildly upsetting, none of those."
http://www.juancole.com/2004/05/zinni-on-what... ;
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186969 Mar 23, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
From above : "A furious row has broken out over claims in a new book by BBC broadcaster James Naughtie that US Secretary of State Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.
Powell's extraordinary outburst..."
That a soft-spoken man like Powell would utter such words just shows the unchecked insanity of it all.
However, I can't figure why he delivered that speech at the UN & backed the Iraq invasion. He knew, is why I don't think he was misled..Bullied by big-tome hawks who would profit from it? No doubt.
I totally agree with you Jacques about Powell being too smart not to know.

That is the reason he went to the United Nations with George Tenet because Powell did not want to take the blame alone.

Plus he knew President Halliburton Cheney, Vice President Old Man Rummy, and the Dummy Bush was going to war anyway and did not want to demoralize the moral of our troops by stepping down and resigning.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#186970 Mar 23, 2014
P.S. History, well, not even history, as Vietnam was not yet history, too recent - yet what did we learn from the USS Maddox-Bay of Tonkin resolution, the 1964 version of today's WsMD? ZILCH. It's like the cheating husband. Cheat, reapeat, cheat, repeat and when caught cheating, lie.

At least, we now know that the Democrats (1964) and the Republicans (2002), left and right, were both lying. Par for the course, they're politicians.
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186971 Mar 23, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
This, from above, says it all :
"General Anthony Zinni, USMC,(Ret.) Remarks at CDI Board of Directors Dinner, May 12, 2004
The third mistake, I think was one we repeated from Vietnam, we had to create a false rationale for going in to get public support. The books were cooked, in my mind. The intelligence was not there. I testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee one month before the war, and Senator Lugar asked me: "General Zinni, do you feel the threat from Saddam Hussein is imminent?" I said: "No, not at all. It was not an imminent threat. Not even close. Not grave, gathering, imminent, serious, severe, mildly upsetting, none of those."
http://www.juancole.com/2004/05/zinni-on-what... ;
Absolutely true that the Bush administration cooked the books for war against Iraq and took their eyes off of al Qaeda in Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia.

----------

Doug Feith Cooked The Books For Bush Audio
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/downloads/a...

Bush and Saddam Should Both Stand Trial, Says Nuremberg Prosecutor
Aug. 25, 2006 / http://tinyurl.com/6bodqmu
Aug 25 (OneWorld)- A chief prosecutor of Nazi war crimes at Nuremberg has said George W. Bush should be tried for war crimes along with Saddam Hussein. Benjamin Ferencz, who secured convictions for 22 Nazi officers for their work in orchestrating the death squads that killed more than 1 million people, told OneWorld both Bush and Saddam should be tried for starting "aggressive" wars--Saddam for his 1990 attack on Kuwait and Bush for his 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"Nuremberg declared that aggressive war is the supreme international crime," the 87-year-old Ferencz told OneWorld from his home in New York. He said the United Nations charter, which was written after the carnage of World War II, contains a provision that no nation can use armed force without the permission of the UN Security Council.

Ferencz said that after Nuremberg the international community realized that every war results in violations by both sides, meaning the primary objective should be preventing any war from occurring in the first place.

He said the atrocities of the Iraq war--from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and the massacre of dozens of civilians by U.S. forces in Haditha to the high number of civilian casualties caused by insurgent car bombs--were highly predictable at the start of the war.
http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/65071:b...

Bush Took His Eyes Off Al Qaeda / Bush Invaded The Wrong Country
Army War College / Bounding Global War Dec/ 2003
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil...

BUSH LOST TWO WARS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN WITH THE BEST MILITARY ON EARTH:

BUSH WASTED 4 YEARS FIGHTING IRAQIS NOT FIGHTING AL QAEDA :
Army War College / American Strategy After 9/11/01
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil...
Pdamerica org

Sayville, NY

#186972 Mar 23, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
P.S. History, well, not even history, as Vietnam was not yet history, too recent - yet what did we learn from the USS Maddox-Bay of Tonkin resolution, the 1964 version of today's WsMD? ZILCH. It's like the cheating husband. Cheat, reapeat, cheat, repeat and when caught cheating, lie.
At least, we now know that the Democrats (1964) and the Republicans (2002), left and right, were both lying. Par for the course, they're politicians.
Enclosed is an excellent talk given by professor Zinn about lying governments and lying politicians.

======

The People's Historian: Howard Zinn Video
December 18, 2006 / http://tinyurl.com/28wej2
http://www.democracynow.org/shows/2006/12/18

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#186974 Mar 23, 2014
Jacques,
I am not endorsing Bill Shuster, the politician, by any means. I just thought it was an unusual remark coming from a rank and file Republican.
I was reading about transportation, not Bill Shuster
loose
Obskeptic

Sterling Heights, MI

#186975 Mar 23, 2014
loose cannon wrote:
Jacques,
I am not endorsing Bill Shuster, the politician, by any means. I just thought it was an unusual remark coming from a rank and file Republican.
I was reading about transportation, not Bill Shuster
loose
More then likely there is some manufacturer in his district that would benefit from the 100's of millions if not billions that the fed's would be pouring into such an initiative. Thats what politics is all about after all. Making some connected people very wealthy at the expense of the taxpayer.
Obskeptic

Sterling Heights, MI

#186976 Mar 23, 2014
Pdamerica org wrote:
<quoted text>
I totally agree with you Jacques about Powell being too smart not to know.
That is the reason he went to the United Nations with George Tenet because Powell did not want to take the blame alone.
Plus he knew President Halliburton Cheney, Vice President Old Man Rummy, and the Dummy Bush was going to war anyway and did not want to demoralize the moral of our troops by stepping down and resigning.
The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and France all agreed with this judgment. Even Hans Blix—who headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he dispose of the WMD he was known to have had in the past—lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion:

"The discovery of a number of ... chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker, and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions.... They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery … points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for."
The consensus on which President Bush relied was first fully formed in the Clinton administration, as these statements indicate:

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s [WMD] program." – Bill Clinton, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [America], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." – Secretary of State Madeline Albright, 1998
"[Saddam] will use those [WMD] again, as he has ten times since 1983." – Sandy Berger, Clinton’s National Security Adviser, 1998
Also in 1998, a group of Democratic Senators -- including such luminaries as Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, and John Kerry -- urged President Clinton "to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its [WMD] programs."

Nancy Pelosi, then a member of the House Intelligence Committee, stated: "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of [WMD] technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."

This Democratic drumbeat continued and even intensified when George W. Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001. In a letter to the new President, a number of Senators led by Florida Democrat Bob Graham declared:

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical, and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf war status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Senator Carl Levin reaffirmed for Bush’s benefit what he had told Clinton some years earlier:

"Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Senator Hillary Clinton agreed, speaking in October 2002:

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical- and biological-weapons stock, his missile-delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members."
Obskeptic

Sterling Heights, MI

#186977 Mar 23, 2014
Senator Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, concurred:

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years.... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Also in 2002, Al Gore said the following:

"We know that [Saddam] has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
"Iraq’s search for [WMD] has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Senator John Kerry announced in 2002: "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force—if necessary—to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

That same year, Senator Ted Kennedy said, "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."

Senator Robert Byrd put it this way: "We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has [since 1998] embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical- and biological-warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons."

William Cohen, who had served as President Clinton’s Secretary of Defense, remained “absolutely convinced” that Saddam possessed stockpiles of WMD even after the U.S. military had failed to find them in the wake of the invasion in March 2003.

Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under President Clinton, recalls:

"In the late spring of 2002, I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did."
Obskeptic

Sterling Heights, MI

#186978 Mar 23, 2014
Just to let you lib's know, it is not my intent to let some facts get in the way of your continued hate marathon of GWB. I was just trying to bring a little objectivity to the discussion. Oh, and Jacques, I have to apologize about that "smartest president possibly ever" comment or joke or whatever we want to label it about Barack. Of course we all know he is not even close to being in that intellectual class of previous presidents, but it was the Koch brothers that were trying to spread that rumor. My bad.

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