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#186966 Mar 23, 2014
Gen. Anthony Zinni, USMC,(Ret.) Remarks at CDI Board of Directors Dinner, May 12, 2004 /
The sixth mistake, and maybe the biggest one, was propping up and trusting the exiles, the infamous "Gucci Guerillas" from London. We bought into their intelligence reports. To the credit of the CIA, they didn't buy into it, so I guess the Defense Department created its own boutique intelligence agency to vet them. And we ended up with a group that fed us bad information. That led us to believe that we would be welcomed with flowers in the streets; that led us to believe that this would be a cakewalk.
When I testified before Congress in 1998, after a grilling from Senator McCain and all those wonderful senators supported the Iraqi Liberation Act, and I told them that these guys are not credible and they are going to lead us into something they we will regret. At that time, they were pushing a plan that Central Command would supply air support and special forces, and we would put it into Iraq, and they would pied piper their way up to Baghdad and the whole place would fall apart. This plan was created by two senate staffers and a retired General. I happened to be the commander of central command, nobody bothered to ask me about how my troops would be used. And they were a little bit upset about me being upset about this.
These exiles did not have credibility inside the country or in the region. Not only did they not have credibility, it was clear that the information they were providing us many times was not correct and accurate. We believed in them. We also brought them in with us and deemed them into the governing council and the reception by Iraqis has been, to say the least, has not been great.
Why Iraq Was a Mistake
By Lt. General GREGORY NEWBOLD, Retired
http://tinyurl.com/p4j93 Apr. 09, 2006
From 2000 until October 2002, I was a Marine Corps lieutenant general and director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. After 9/11, I was a witness and therefore a party to the actions that led us to the invasion of Iraq--an unnecessary war.
Inside the military family, I made no secret of my view that the zealots' rationale for war made no sense. And I think I was outspoken enough to make those senior to me uncomfortable.
But I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat--al-Qaeda.
I retired from the military four months before the invasion, in part because of my opposition to those who had used 9/11's tragedy to hijack our security policy. Until now, I have resisted speaking out in public. I've been silent long enough.
#186967 Mar 23, 2014
General Eaton's Letter to President Bush on Veto
May 1, 2007 / http://tinyurl.com/mx9nm4o
Dear Mr. President,
Today, in your veto message regarding the bipartisan legislation just passed on Operation Iraqi Freedom, you asserted that you so decided because you listen to your commanders on the ground.
Respectfully, as your former commander on the ground, your administration did not listen to our best advice. In fact, a number of my fellow Generals were forced out of their jobs, because they did not tell you what you wanted to hear -- most notably General Eric Shinseki, whose foresight regarding troop levels was advice you rejected, at our troops' peril.
America's Angriest General John Batiste
May 9, 2007 / http://tinyurl.com/maw5r26
Retired two-star Army Gen. John Batiste is lashing out at the Bush war in Iraq in ads targeting key Republicans up for re-election in 2008. His offensive may change the rules regarding civilian-military relations.
"Mr. President, you did not listen," he says. "You continue to pursue a failed strategy that is breaking our Army and Marine Corps."
The ad is scheduled to air from May 10 to 18, targeting Republican Sens. Susan Collins (Maine), John Sununu (New Hampshire), John Warner (Virginia) and Norm Coleman (Minnesota), and 10 GOP House members, including Mary Bono, Phil English, Randy Kuhl, Jim Walsh and Heather Wilson.
THE VIEW FROM CENTCOM....So what do former CENTCOM commanders think about the neocons and their war planning? Let's listen in:
http://tinyurl.com/2rh9c / May 21, 2004
General Joseph Hoar, 1991-1994: "Paul Wolfowitz is a very bright guy, but he doesn't know anything about war-fighting, and I suspect he knows less about counterinsurgency operations....I think that the neo-conservatives had their day, by selling to the President the need for invasion of Iraq. I think it's now time for a clean sweep—and it has been for some time, in my judgment—to get rid of these people."
General Anthony Zinni, 1997-2000: He believes the neocons, including Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense, have hijacked U.S. foreign policy: "In the lead-up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw, at minimum, true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility; at worst, lying, incompetence and corruption."
General Tommy Franks, 2000-2003: Doug Feith is "the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth."
General Binford Peay III, CENTCOM commander from 1994-1997, seems to have maintained a studious silence about the conduct of the war, perhaps understandable since he's now the chairman of the board of a defense contractor that, among other things, provides ammunition for the Army's Stryker brigades.
Still, that's a pretty remarkable record, isn't it? Three of the past four CENTCOM commanders, the guys who probably understand the military requirements of a war in the Middle East better than any other humans on the planet, think the people who planned this war are completely incompetent. Quite an accomplishment.
“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”
Since: Feb 12
#186968 Mar 23, 2014
This, from above, says it all :
"General Anthony Zinni, USMC,(Ret.) Remarks at CDI Board of Directors Dinner, May 12, 2004
The third mistake, I think was one we repeated from Vietnam, we had to create a false rationale for going in to get public support. The books were cooked, in my mind. The intelligence was not there. I testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee one month before the war, and Senator Lugar asked me: "General Zinni, do you feel the threat from Saddam Hussein is imminent?" I said: "No, not at all. It was not an imminent threat. Not even close. Not grave, gathering, imminent, serious, severe, mildly upsetting, none of those."
#186969 Mar 23, 2014
I totally agree with you Jacques about Powell being too smart not to know.
That is the reason he went to the United Nations with George Tenet because Powell did not want to take the blame alone.
Plus he knew President Halliburton Cheney, Vice President Old Man Rummy, and the Dummy Bush was going to war anyway and did not want to demoralize the moral of our troops by stepping down and resigning.
“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”
Since: Feb 12
#186970 Mar 23, 2014
P.S. History, well, not even history, as Vietnam was not yet history, too recent - yet what did we learn from the USS Maddox-Bay of Tonkin resolution, the 1964 version of today's WsMD? ZILCH. It's like the cheating husband. Cheat, reapeat, cheat, repeat and when caught cheating, lie.
At least, we now know that the Democrats (1964) and the Republicans (2002), left and right, were both lying. Par for the course, they're politicians.
#186971 Mar 23, 2014
Absolutely true that the Bush administration cooked the books for war against Iraq and took their eyes off of al Qaeda in Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia.
Doug Feith Cooked The Books For Bush Audio
Bush and Saddam Should Both Stand Trial, Says Nuremberg Prosecutor
Aug. 25, 2006 / http://tinyurl.com/6bodqmu
Aug 25 (OneWorld)- A chief prosecutor of Nazi war crimes at Nuremberg has said George W. Bush should be tried for war crimes along with Saddam Hussein. Benjamin Ferencz, who secured convictions for 22 Nazi officers for their work in orchestrating the death squads that killed more than 1 million people, told OneWorld both Bush and Saddam should be tried for starting "aggressive" wars--Saddam for his 1990 attack on Kuwait and Bush for his 2003 invasion of Iraq.
"Nuremberg declared that aggressive war is the supreme international crime," the 87-year-old Ferencz told OneWorld from his home in New York. He said the United Nations charter, which was written after the carnage of World War II, contains a provision that no nation can use armed force without the permission of the UN Security Council.
Ferencz said that after Nuremberg the international community realized that every war results in violations by both sides, meaning the primary objective should be preventing any war from occurring in the first place.
He said the atrocities of the Iraq war--from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and the massacre of dozens of civilians by U.S. forces in Haditha to the high number of civilian casualties caused by insurgent car bombs--were highly predictable at the start of the war.
Bush Took His Eyes Off Al Qaeda / Bush Invaded The Wrong Country
Army War College / Bounding Global War Dec/ 2003
BUSH LOST TWO WARS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN WITH THE BEST MILITARY ON EARTH:
BUSH WASTED 4 YEARS FIGHTING IRAQIS NOT FIGHTING AL QAEDA :
Army War College / American Strategy After 9/11/01
#186972 Mar 23, 2014
Enclosed is an excellent talk given by professor Zinn about lying governments and lying politicians.
The People's Historian: Howard Zinn Video
December 18, 2006 / http://tinyurl.com/28wej2
Since: Aug 08
#186974 Mar 23, 2014
I am not endorsing Bill Shuster, the politician, by any means. I just thought it was an unusual remark coming from a rank and file Republican.
I was reading about transportation, not Bill Shuster
#186975 Mar 23, 2014
More then likely there is some manufacturer in his district that would benefit from the 100's of millions if not billions that the fed's would be pouring into such an initiative. Thats what politics is all about after all. Making some connected people very wealthy at the expense of the taxpayer.
#186976 Mar 23, 2014
The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and France all agreed with this judgment. Even Hans Blix—who headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he dispose of the WMD he was known to have had in the past—lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion:
"The discovery of a number of ... chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker, and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions.... They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery … points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for."
The consensus on which President Bush relied was first fully formed in the Clinton administration, as these statements indicate:
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s [WMD] program." – Bill Clinton, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [America], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." – Secretary of State Madeline Albright, 1998
"[Saddam] will use those [WMD] again, as he has ten times since 1983." – Sandy Berger, Clinton’s National Security Adviser, 1998
Also in 1998, a group of Democratic Senators -- including such luminaries as Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, and John Kerry -- urged President Clinton "to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its [WMD] programs."
Nancy Pelosi, then a member of the House Intelligence Committee, stated: "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of [WMD] technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
This Democratic drumbeat continued and even intensified when George W. Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001. In a letter to the new President, a number of Senators led by Florida Democrat Bob Graham declared:
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical, and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf war status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Senator Carl Levin reaffirmed for Bush’s benefit what he had told Clinton some years earlier:
"Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Senator Hillary Clinton agreed, speaking in October 2002:
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical- and biological-weapons stock, his missile-delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members."
#186977 Mar 23, 2014
Senator Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, concurred:
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years.... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Also in 2002, Al Gore said the following:
"We know that [Saddam] has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
"Iraq’s search for [WMD] has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Senator John Kerry announced in 2002: "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force—if necessary—to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
That same year, Senator Ted Kennedy said, "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Senator Robert Byrd put it this way: "We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has [since 1998] embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical- and biological-warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons."
William Cohen, who had served as President Clinton’s Secretary of Defense, remained “absolutely convinced” that Saddam possessed stockpiles of WMD even after the U.S. military had failed to find them in the wake of the invasion in March 2003.
Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under President Clinton, recalls:
"In the late spring of 2002, I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did."
#186978 Mar 23, 2014
Just to let you lib's know, it is not my intent to let some facts get in the way of your continued hate marathon of GWB. I was just trying to bring a little objectivity to the discussion. Oh, and Jacques, I have to apologize about that "smartest president possibly ever" comment or joke or whatever we want to label it about Barack. Of course we all know he is not even close to being in that intellectual class of previous presidents, but it was the Koch brothers that were trying to spread that rumor. My bad.
#186979 Mar 23, 2014
Shouldn't Bill Clinton and Madeline Notbright be right next to GWB for the bombing they did in Kosovo? After all, they bombed schools, hospitals,water supplies, and prisons under the auspices of NATO. Or are you only interested in holding republicans responsible for their despicable acts?
“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”
Since: Feb 12
#186980 Mar 23, 2014
Yes indeed, making sure gridlock remains a permanent feature of our big cities, making sure we have hundreds of polluting airplanes flying the Boston-NYC-WshDC and Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto or LA-SF corridors instead of efficient low-polluting electric trains that, check-in time included, are faster than any commercial jets for short to medium distances.
Yes, it's all a ploy to benefit this guy's (a Repub BTW) district's manufacture. As is building ambulances, hospitals, schools, public works like water, sewer treatment, garbage management etc are. Instead of coming out of that tired "I don't trust these guys", is it in any way possible, if you don't agree with Loose on trains vs autos, to come up with reasons, real ones , why you don't priorize rail? Any logical argumentation, whether people agree with it or not, is always respected by intelligent people.
“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”
Since: Feb 12
#186981 Mar 23, 2014
My response to your incredible and mind-blogging post number 186976 :
This from you : "The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and France all agreed with this judgment. Even Hans Blix—who headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he dispose of the WMD he was known to have had in the past—lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion:"
Just like the reasons for the invasion of Iraq : Lies. Hans Blix said that there were no WsM D. As to Germany, China, France and Russia agreeing, you just copied Rogue and added China. Those countries never agreed. Toni Blair did, sent troops, regretted it, was ousted.
#186982 Mar 23, 2014
I'm sorry Jacques, but it has been declared that I am not capable of a logical response and my opinion doesn't matter, so therefore I am unable to offer you one. Besides, liberals are the only class that has the intellect to argue the point authoritatively.
Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
#186983 Mar 23, 2014
I'm sorry Jacques, you're right again as usual. You must get so sick of always being right. I can totally see how the word of one man with the credibility of Hans Blix overshadows congressional testimony from insignificant players like William Cohen, Sandy Berger, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, Sen. Hillary Clinton, Sen. Al Gore, Sen. Ted Kennedy, or even that brilliant women, Madeline Albright. Bush was an idiot to believe those people.
#186984 Mar 23, 2014
Sure is a good thing that the UN has so much credibility and respect in the world. Those baby blue helmets have Vladimir shaking in his boots, and the people of Ukraine as comforted as those in Crimea that they are completely safe from any Russian aggression.
“zero nuclear weapons”
Since: Sep 08
#186985 Mar 23, 2014
Rouge here is something to read UN scientists see grim future if no climate action.
10 to 1 you will not believe it and call it a libtard idea
#186986 Mar 23, 2014
I almost forgot to include Carl Levin, Tom Dashle, Bob Graham, John Kerry and the congressional leader of smart, Nancy Pelosi. All stated Sadaam had or was developing WsMD. But Hans Blix turns out to be the credible source that was to be trusted above all else. After all, he was affiliated with the UN, and it doesn't come with more credibility or authority then that. Right Jacques?
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