BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit ...

BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

There are 214415 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Jan 8, 2009, titled BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen.... In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#184899 Feb 4, 2014
loose cannon wrote:
Jacques,
One more comment about endangered species. And that is the piano manufacturing industry stopped using ivory on their keys decades ago.
They still use ebony for the blacks, but the ivory tradition was scrapped a long time ago, They now use some sort of plastic instead for the whites. It is very consistent and durable and has no bearing on sound.
That's your lesson for today.
loose
My lesson? A lesson from YOU?

Would Stradivarius have liked "some sort of plastic?"

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#184900 Feb 4, 2014
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! No such thing as a NBC being born to alien parents, you just proved my point.
This section contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two sources only: birth and naturalization. The persons declared to be citizens are "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.(Elk v. Wilkins)
The best you can hope for is a dual-citizenship, which is no better than a naturalized citizen, neither are eligible to be POTUS.
Mr. Flanagan has two passports. Now which citizenship was 'stripped'? Eh genius?
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither the natural born citizen born in the US of alien parents nor the naturalized citizen resident in the US is subject to a foreign power.
John Flanagan, born in the US of an Irish father and US mother is a US citizen. Ireland also calls him a citizen. Dufus Dale claims the US improperly "stripped" him of a foreign citizenship. Ireland says Dufus Dale is FOS and sent Mr. Flanagan an Irish passport, even though he never lived in Ireland or set foot there.
Dale

Wichita, KS

#184901 Feb 4, 2014
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Blithering nonsense.
BTW, when Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, his US citizenship didn't 'strip a citizenship of a foreign country'. What is Dufus smoking?
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! So, this would make him a dual-citizen, which is no better than a naturalized citizen, both have questionable allegiance, but with a dual-citizenship the question does not need to be asked, it is very evident.
Dale

Wichita, KS

#184902 Feb 4, 2014
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Flanagan has two passports. Now which citizenship was 'stripped'? Eh genius?
<quoted text>
LMAO!!! Neither, you proved my point. A dual-citizenship is no better than a naturalized citizenship, both have questionable allegiance.
Guess we can start the recall process on Obama, he has never been eligible for POTUS.
Dale

Wichita, KS

#184903 Feb 4, 2014
wojar, thanks for the help!!!

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#184904 Feb 4, 2014
wojar wrote:

<quoted text>
James Madison says you're an idiot.
"place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States;"
“It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other.”–James Madison
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>Irrelevant!
Ha ha, James Madison is irrelevant. And Dale-LRS is...?

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#184906 Feb 5, 2014
Dale wrote:
LMAO!!!“Nor can it be doubted that it is the inherent right of every independent nation to determine for itself, and according to its own constitution and laws, what classes of persons shall be entitled to its citizenship.”(Ark v. US)
As you know the US can not strip a citizenship of a foreign country, unless requested by the naturalization process. Yep, the Ark case created a new type of citizen, a dual-citizen, which is on the same footing as a naturalized citizen.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Flanagan has two passports. Now which citizenship was 'stripped'? Eh genius?
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Neither, you proved my point. A dual-citizenship is no better than a naturalized citizenship, both have questionable allegiance.
Guess we can start the recall process on Obama, he has never been eligible for POTUS.
Dufus Dale says James Madison is irrelevant ; US cannot strip a citizenship pf a foreign country.

Then Dufus Dale turns around and says, no one's citizenship is stripped.

Dufus Dale just admitted Play Law is irrelevant. It breaks down every which way Dale turns.

And Dufus still cannot seem to comprehend that as he invokes Vattel for the 14th Amendment, Vattel's clearly stated definition of jurisdiction covers aliens living in the United States so their US born children are natural born citizens. Play Law simply fails.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

Bristol, CT

#184907 Feb 5, 2014
Ҥ 84. Jurisdiction.

The sovereignty united to the domain establishes the jurisdiction of the nation in her territories, or the country that belongs to her. It is her province, or that of her sovereign, to exercise justice in all the places under her jurisdiction, to take cognisance of the crimes committed, and the differences that arise in the country.”

E. de Vattel

His definition of jurisdiction is essentially identical to Black's Law and the definition that has been operational for over 200 years.

Play Law works only in the Play World.

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#184908 Feb 5, 2014
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
As you know the US can not strip a citizenship of a foreign country, unless requested by the naturalization process. Yep, the Ark case created a new type of citizen, a dual-citizen, which is on the same footing as a naturalized citizen.
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Dufus Dale says James Madison is irrelevant ; US cannot strip a citizenship pf a foreign country.
Then Dufus Dale turns around and says, no one's citizenship is stripped.
Dufus Dale just admitted Play Law is irrelevant. It breaks down every which way Dale turns.
And Dufus still cannot seem to comprehend that as he invokes Vattel for the 14th Amendment, Vattel's clearly stated definition of jurisdiction covers aliens living in the United States so their US born children are natural born citizens. Play Law simply fails.
You're so right, and If you'll allow me, let me buttress your reasoning even further (you wrote : "As you know the US can not strip a citizenship of a foreign country, unless requested by the naturalization process") by commenting that yes, the U.S. can force a citizen to renounce his citizenship of his foreign country BUT only said foreign country can annul said citizenship FOLLOWING THE REQUEST of said citizen. And, some countries will not even acquiesce, namely France, for example. When you're French, you're French and you'll die French, no matter how often you renounce it.

And again, if you have dual nationality, like French-U.S., you are under the entire U.S. jurisdiction when in the U.S. and entire French jurisdiction when you're in France. To advance it even further, If Canadian Ted Cruz visits Canada, Canada can do whatever it wants to him and there is nothing the U.S. can do about it, and VICE VERSA.

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#184910 Feb 5, 2014
Jacques,
I know very little about Rand Paul, but I heard him make a few off-the-wall remarks about the Lacey Act.
That man is a complete hack if I ever saw one..

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#184911 Feb 5, 2014
Jacques,
Any time I see the name Rand Paul, it will be met with venom.
loose

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#184912 Feb 5, 2014
loose cannon wrote:
Jacques,
Any time I see the name Rand Paul, it will be met with venom.
loose
I'll bet Rand Paul is plenty worried.

Et cette adresse de Polynésie française, c'est quoi ça?

“On Deck”

Since: Aug 08

French Polynesia

#184913 Feb 5, 2014
Jacques,
I mispelt venom.The word may be used figuratively.
It is not an idle threat. The man belongs in a cage.
loose
Ellen1

Dedham, MA

#184914 Feb 5, 2014
Dale wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Neither, you proved my point. A dual-citizenship is no better than a naturalized citizenship, both have questionable allegiance.
Guess we can start the recall process on Obama, he has never been eligible for POTUS.
The answer is quite simple. The writers of the US Constitution disagreed with you. They thought that a US-born dual citizen IS better than a naturalized citizen. And they thought that a naturalized citizen had questionable allegiance but that a US-born dual citizen has allegiance ONLY to the place of her or his birth.

That is what Blackstone wrote:

“….that every man owes natural allegiance where he is born, and cannot owe two such allegiances, or serve two masters, at once.”

And there is a quotation from James Madison indicating that he thought exactly the same way, that allegiance goes with the PLACE of birth---not the parents.

Your nutty idea is simply yours---not that of the writers of the US Constitution. And, using your nutty idea you are then READING into the Constitution and assuming that the writers of the US Constitution thought the way that you did, so that you can insert into the Constitution something that it does not say. Well, doing that to the Constitution is not merely wrong---it is immoral.

You cannot read into the US Constitution something that it does not say. And it does not say that two US citizen parents are required to be president. In fact, there is not a word in the US Constitution that says either that the US-born children of foreigners or that US-born dual citizens are not eligible to become president. Not a word.

Under strict construction (remember that?) you cannot interpret the Constitution as saying something unless it actually does says it-----and it does NOT say that two citizen parents are required or that a dual citizen is barred from becoming president. It does not say either of those things.

Under libertarian principles neither a law nor the Constitution can take away a right or a privilege unless the Constitution specifically allows that thing to be taken away. And, the Constitution does not specifically take away the right or privilege of the US-born children of foreigners to become president, and it does not take away the right or privilege of the US-born dual citizens either. It does not take away either of those things. It does not SAY any such thing.

And yet slimy Dale wants gullible people to ignore good conservative legal principles such as strict construction and good conservative moral principles such as libertarianism. Why? Why SLIMY Dale? Why?
JBH

Richmond, Canada

#184915 Feb 5, 2014
Sochi torch takes a spacewalk
updated 10:19 AM EST, Thu November 14, 2013
Two Russian cosmonauts took the Sochi Olympic torch on its first-ever spacewalk outside the International Space Station.

====-----&&()------==

Russian cosmonauts on its first-ever spacewalk outside the International Space Station would as well, signify of having great sports arena built, as looked like space-age design for World Sports Games Sochi Olympics 2014.

This symbolic spacewalk gives rise to the new era of the new chapter of world history in this technological changing world as the uprising world.

As Russian cosmonauts did the Sochi Olympic torch run in space for the world, Come On, Rising people of this new uprising World , Go get them -- the Sochi Olympics for Internationals, BY Russia.

Go Get Them -- The Sochi Olympics 2014, Go, Go, Go, Russia!!!

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#184916 Feb 5, 2014
JBH wrote:
Sochi torch takes a spacewalk
updated 10:19 AM EST, Thu November 14, 2013
Two Russian cosmonauts took the Sochi Olympic torch on its first-ever spacewalk outside the International Space Station.
====-----&&()------==
Russian cosmonauts on its first-ever spacewalk outside the International Space Station would as well, signify of having great sports arena built, as looked like space-age design for World Sports Games Sochi Olympics 2014.
This symbolic spacewalk gives rise to the new era of the new chapter of world history in this technological changing world as the uprising world.
As Russian cosmonauts did the Sochi Olympic torch run in space for the world, Come On, Rising people of this new uprising World , Go get them -- the Sochi Olympics for Internationals, BY Russia.
Go Get Them -- The Sochi Olympics 2014, Go, Go, Go, Russia!!!
Eh?

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#184917 Feb 5, 2014
Sorry for unsolicited article, but hey, it's pretty indicative of what's been happening in our Far North during decades now.

FOR CLIMATE SCIENTIST ROGUE SCHOLAR :

Hungry polar bears robbing Arctic nests
Bird colonies ravaged as shrinking ice floes force animals onto land
Margaret Munro, Postmedia News
Published: 2:33 am
There were more than 300 nests in the bird colony when the polar bear arrived.
When it meandered off with a belly full of eggs, only 24 nests remained, say scientists who witnessed the "near total" destruction of nests on the bird colony off Baffin Island.
It was far from an isolated event, the team from Environment Canada and Carleton University reported Tuesday.
Hungry polar bears are becoming a bigger threat to seabirds in the Canadian Arctic than traditional nest robbers like foxes and gulls, the researchers say in a study that points to the "cascading ecological impacts" of climate change.
Polar bears are now seven times more common in bird colonies in the Hudson Strait area between Northern Quebec and Baffin Island than they were in the 1980s, the study found.
It says the increased predation is clearly linked to the shrinking Arctic ice season, which is almost two months shorter than it was 30 years ago.
"Substantial open-water areas are now routinely encountered in May and the near-shore seasonal ice environment upon which polar bears depend has been drastically altered," the study says.
Polar bears use sea ice as a platform to hunt for seals, their favoured food, but resort to eating eggs and whatever else they can find when the ice melts and forces them on land.
Thick-billed murres, seabirds that nest on cliffs, are one target. But northern common eiders are even more vulnerable because the large sea ducks lay three to four plump eggs in nests on the ground, says wildlife biologist Samuel Iverson at Carleton University, lead author of the study in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. "The polar bears just lumber around, press the eggs with their nose and lap up the contents," Iverson says. He watched the carnage from boats that he and his colleagues used to survey nesting sites on 230 islands along 1,000 kilometres of Arctic coastline between 2010 and 2012, which were record low years for sea ice.
They found bears - typically a single bear or a female with her cubs - or signs of bear activity on 34 per cent of eider colonies. Gulls, which normally can't get past the parent birds, tend to join in when the bears start crushing eggs.
The researchers say the destruction is typically quick, and often leads to "near total reproductive failure" for the seabirds, which lay only one clutch of eggs per season.
At one eider colony near Cape Dorset on Baffin Island, the field crew found 335 active nests. When they returned two days later they found a polar bear eating eggs, along with more than 50 gulls picking over the remains. "We re-surveyed the colony after the bear left of its own accord and counted 24 active nests," the team reports.
The study also found that bear visits have risen sharply at nesting sites that Environment Canada has been monitoring for up to 24 years. Fifteen to 24 years ago, bears wandered into the colonies for a day or two.
"What we're seeing now is close to 12 days in a season where we might see bears on a colony," Iverson said.
Murres and eiders are longlived sea birds that can withstand reproductive failures in some years.
==========

www2.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.ht... ;
... Saskatoon StarPhoenix, Windsor Star, Ottawa Citizen, The Gazette (Montreal), DOSE ... Hungry polar bears are becoming a bigger threat to seabirds in the ...
==========

P.S : I've read the article, Rogue. Unlike you, I read what I post here.
Grand Birther

Louisville, KY

#184918 Feb 5, 2014
wojar wrote:
Ҥ 84. Jurisdiction.
The sovereignty united to the domain establishes the jurisdiction of the nation in her territories, or the country that belongs to her. It is her province, or that of her sovereign, to exercise justice in all the places under her jurisdiction, to take cognisance of the crimes committed, and the differences that arise in the country.”
E. de Vattel
His definition of jurisdiction is essentially identical to Black's Law and the definition that has been operational for over 200 years.
Play Law works only in the Play World.
Fantasy only works in fantasy land!
http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/22...
This is a decision made in the real world!
Words have meaning! The court knew what every word they used meant!

“Bonjour Hello Buongiorno Hola”

Since: Feb 12

Ottawa

#184919 Feb 5, 2014
Grand Birther wrote:
<quoted text>
Fantasy only works in fantasy land!
http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/22...
This is a decision made in the real world!
Words have meaning! The court knew what every word they used meant!
What do I know about the U.S. Constitution? Not much. Certainly not as much as you, Oh Grand Birther. But, I do have a question : Seeing as you disagree on the interpretation of said Constitution with 535 congressmen, 9 Justices of the Supreme Court, 50 Governors, both GOP and dem , the total Repub leadership and 218 courts of law, would you not conclude that your position is, shall we say, tenuous, farcical and buffoon-like, even?
Ellen1

Dedham, MA

#184921 Feb 5, 2014
Jacques from Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
What do I know about the U.S. Constitution? Not much. Certainly not as much as you, Oh Grand Birther. But, I do have a question : Seeing as you disagree on the interpretation of said Constitution with 535 congressmen, 9 Justices of the Supreme Court, 50 Governors, both GOP and dem , the total Repub leadership and 218 courts of law, would you not conclude that your position is, shall we say, tenuous, farcical and buffoon-like, even?
Re:“your position is, shall we say, tenuous, farcical and buffoon-like, even?”

It’s considerably worse than that. It’s immoral. Dale is trying to make people believe that MILLIONS of Americans who have been good citizens and fought loyally in two world wars are not as good as other Americans based simply on the fact that they were dual citizens at birth.

Many of our parents and grandparents were born in the USA of people who were not naturalized yet. Many were dual citizens at birth. And they all were fine citizens. Yet Dale thinks that they are not as good (and therefore that the writers of the US Constitution also thought that they were not as good) as the US-born children of US citizens. And this in a country that is dedicated to the proposition:“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal….”

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